to bypass or pre-oil? that is the question

[roman]

Coles notes are at the bottom if you do not want to read the in depth stuff.

Right now, I want to do a little project for the winter on my Grand Prix. First, let me tell you what conditions the car sees. It is stored in a non-heated garage attached to pour house. The car has 64,000km on it and is a 99 model with the 3800 series II engine. We only had it for two years (bought used). It sees nothing but stops and go traffic, and is only run for maybe 10-15 minute trips. Sometimes, we may go without the car for a day. Now, the car does not seem to burn oil, and it was run on Quaker State 10w30 with frams before I found this site. Now, it has M1 10w30 sitting in it (only one oil change), and I just dropped the pan and changed the filter. Poured in Castrol ATF non-synthetic. The filter had no visible load of clutch material, but the bottom of the pan had thick ATF fluid in it (the rest that poured out seemed to be the right viscosity)
My original plans were to swap cams…rockers, and do a little head work, but I came to the conclusion that this may not be my preferred platform. I would rather do it RWD. So, the car is my moms, and I want it to last forever (you get the point). Which bring me to this:

Coles notes: I think I want to either want to do a bypass filtration on the oil, install a pre-oiler, or do a trans bypass. What is honestly, the best bang for the buck here? What prices would I be looking at, and what things should I be looking for. How much more life should I expect to get out of the affected parts (engine/trans).?

Thanks for your input

 

[slalom44]

IMHO, with the short trip usage that it's seeing right now, the best bang for your buck would be a bypass filter. This will remove the excess moisture that would otherwise accumulate in your oil which would otherwise turn your oil acidic (lower TBN). Thus, it would extend the life of the oil significantly as well as remove particulates that cause wear. I'd also stay with the M1.

A preluber is great for wear, but it won't keep your oil healthy if it picks up too much moisture. Transmission bypass is probably overkill, since changing your transmission fluid every 30,000 miles will allow it to last more than 20 years with the regimen it sees.

 

[olympic]

I'm on the other side of the fence on this one. I tried using bypass filters on my taxi fleet and they didn't seem to help the cars that do strictly city driving. They still destroyed the best synthetic oils in 10,000 miles. Wear looked excellent and TBN remained high but oxidation and nitration were sky high. http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001928

Unless you do all hiway driving, it appears a bypass doesn't help extend oil life by much. Atleast not enough to justify the cost.

I'm a big fan of synthetic ATF and trans bypasses though. Modern FWD transmissions hate dirty fluid and a bypass will keep it clean at all times. I have a 01 Montana and the trans was flushed every 30k and it also had a stacked plate cooler. At 150k the trans was making a whining noise and starting to shift very hard. I dropped the pan and it had a thick layer of sludge and clutch material on the bottom.

So I cleaned it out, changed the filter and installed Amsoil ATF and a bypass filter. It took over 10,000 miles but it now is quiet and shifts like new. All my cars are now equipped this way.

I look at it this way: how many people blow up engines these days? Not many. They are designed very well and seem to handle dirty oil OK. "Dirty" may be too strong a word since an engine has a way better OEM filter and a much shorter OCI than any transmission.

But people are still burning up transmissions all the time. Poor quality fluid, dirty fluid, inadequate cooling all lead to premature failure. So my advice is to concentrate on extending the life of your trans because 99.5% of the time, the engine will outlast the car with any reasonable amount of maintenance.

 

[roman]

olympic - What type of bypass were you using? a tp or spin on style? What was the price of it?


After thinking about it, i think id have to agree with you. my cousin neglected his 91 lumiona very badly, and the first thing that shot on it was the trans @ 310,000km, but by then, the engine was really on its last leg (and last four cylinders, with one of those deciding when it would work on its own)).

I am still open to suggestions however. I will be using tp by the way. Id rather stay away from spin ons (they dont have a 'cool' factor, and i figure tp will end up being cheaper)

 

[olympic]

I got the filter mount and filter from Amsoil. There's a write up w/pics here http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=000125

The cost is minimal, maybe $60US for everything. The BP-80A mount does not come with any fittings but you can pick those up locally for cheap along with the required hoses and clamps.

Basically you're just installing a "T" in the trans cooling circuit to divert some ATF to the filter and then returning the cleaned ATF to the trans.

Finding a way to return the cleaned fluid is the tricky part. I couldn't find a safe place to use a hollow bolt in the pan so I ended up drilling a hole in the dip stick tube and welding in a short piece of 1/4" tubing for the return. It works as required but I do have to pinch off the return hose when I want to check the fluid level.

This procedure may be a bit scary to the novice backyard mechanic. If you feel that it is beyond what you want to tackle, consider a Magnefine ATF filter. It's very easy to install and provides more protection than your OEM filter will.

 

[roman]

Maybe some of the bypass filter sponsors would like to chime in?

I think i am leading towards a trans bypass right now, and if it works "as advertised", ill proabaly go for the setup for the oil, and do my sisters car for both (oil and trans)

quote:

---

this procedure may be a bit scary to the novice backyard mechanic.

---

Lol, nothing is too scary for me. Its good to be very young (16

) and stupid

. But hey, if i dont learn now, i never will.

 

[RalphPWood]

In most cases with short trips especially in cold weather it is best to use a conventional oil and a submicronic bypass filter that is economical and easy to service. We depend on normal oil temperature to remove the water. The filter will also remove it but it will need to be changed often. The TP filters will remove about 6 ounces of water before they need to be changed. The Motor Guard MG-30 is by far the easiest to service. If your filter is messy to change or the elements cost more than an oil drain you can't win. I have driven in cold weather but always drove enough to evaporate the water. Fuel contamination is normally not a problem in a fuel injected car. If cost per mile is not a factor you can pay as much as you want for oil and filters.
I drained the synthetic oil on a diesel truck because it put so much soot in the oil that the frequest filter changes made the oil too expensive. The synthetic oil couldn't save enough on fuel to pay for itself. Cost per mile is the bottom line for me. I don't drain oil but I would take it out and heat it up once in a while then change the filter when I get back. Filters that clean oil love hot oil.
The oil needs to be at least 135 degrees F. For a diesel 150 degrees F. A preluber can't hurt. It wouldn't be of much value on my Camry that will probably last until I get sick of driving it. It would be helpful for the Ford diesel that only gets driven when I pull the camper. If someone gave me one I would put it on the truck.

Ralph

 

[LarryL]

"In most cases with short trips especially in cold weather it is best to use a conventional oil and a submicronic bypass filter that is economical and easy to service."

Isn't cold weather short trip driving exactly what synthetic oil does best? I have an old Jeep that I leave at a cabin. Years ago I used 5w30 conventional oil and it was tought to turn over on a cold morning. Now with synthetic 0w30 there's no problem. And it has a lot more mileage, now and does not clatter until it warms up, like it used to. The extra cost for synthetic is worth it, every time it has to be started when it's really cold.

 

[Gary Allan]

I would think, with the frequent and numerous cold starts, that a preoiler with a shortened OCI would reduce wear the most for the engine. It would totally eliminate start up wear. I would think a bypass would just collect all the extra metal that the thing produces in this type of service. A pre-oiler would eliminate most of that production.

The Amsoil bypass (or any other bpf) or just a plain ff would improve trans life. The ff would add inexpensive refreshing of the fluid with a simple change out during servicing ($2.07 for the filter and $2 for a quart of AFT) as would a TP based bp filter.

 

[LarryL]

This morning I saw my first home made per-oiler. This guy, a tool maker by trade, has taken a propane bottle and put a check valve and a solenoid valve and plumbed it into the oil system. He has about a two second delay wired into his ignition switch, in that time the oil discharges into the system. He said that he set the timing so that he sees an add on oil pressure gauge move off the peg just before the starter turns. Since oil can't go back through the pump his system tops off the oil filter and starts building pressure and flow just before the engine starts. He has more he is working on. Next is addiding a second system that oils the cam shaft lobes and top end of the engine, a 76 Toyota Land Cruiser with a SB Chevy. If that isn't enough he plans to add nozzles to squirt oil on the undersides of the pistons to oil the cylinder walls. This would not be cost effective, except for the fact that this guy can make everything himself and he is an oil geek, like some of us, but with more time to play than most of us.

When the bottle is empty, oil pressure through an 0.062 orifice fills up the bottle by defeating a check valve. He said it's not worth having a larger hole to fill up quicker. He thinks it takes a couple of minutes. When he hits the ignition switch, the solenoid valve opens and the bottle starts to discharge through a larger hole. After the delay, adjustable with a nob on his add-on switch, the engine starts.

And what's he going to do after adding the top end oiler, he sez, 'how about a pre-heater, for really frosty mornings?'.

By the way he has a Frantz on the oil and gas that he first purchased in the early 60's and transferred to his current Toyota when he did the engine swap with the SBC.

Just before he left I asked him why he wasn't going to pre-oil the timing chain. I could see the wheels turning.......... and to think, some people waste their time building model trains or golfing.