I would pick Generals for both options. Solid tires, good price and getting very good reviews in terms of all season tires.
Tire Shopping Again!
- Thread starter Tdbo
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UPDATE:
Have eye strain from reading so many tire reviews. Have been on Tire Rack and the Odyssey forum to name a couple.
Originally while posting the options, I thought that it was probably going to come down to the Cooper C5 Grand or the General Altimax RT-43. I wasn't wrong.
I think that I was heading towards the C5's, however could not overlook the general consensus that the C5's are a whole lot less than stellar on snow. Since there will be no dedicated snow tires for this vehicle, that is a disqualifier.
Thus, the winner is the General Altimax RT-43.
Tires have been ordered. Thanks to those who contributed.
Have eye strain from reading so many tire reviews. Have been on Tire Rack and the Odyssey forum to name a couple.
Originally while posting the options, I thought that it was probably going to come down to the Cooper C5 Grand or the General Altimax RT-43. I wasn't wrong.
I think that I was heading towards the C5's, however could not overlook the general consensus that the C5's are a whole lot less than stellar on snow. Since there will be no dedicated snow tires for this vehicle, that is a disqualifier.
Thus, the winner is the General Altimax RT-43.
Tires have been ordered. Thanks to those who contributed.
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
UPDATE:
I think that I was heading towards the C5's, however could not overlook the general consensus that the C5's are a whole lot less than stellar on snow.
Where's this "General consensus?"
The CS5 is somewhat new, so I would guess many people haven't used them through a winter yet. I'm assuming you were going on assumptions being made by people.
Remember that the RT 43 loses quite a lot of its spies as it wears. The CS5 claims to use deep spies to keep more of them as it wears.
UPDATE:
I think that I was heading towards the C5's, however could not overlook the general consensus that the C5's are a whole lot less than stellar on snow.
Where's this "General consensus?"
The CS5 is somewhat new, so I would guess many people haven't used them through a winter yet. I'm assuming you were going on assumptions being made by people.
Remember that the RT 43 loses quite a lot of its spies as it wears. The CS5 claims to use deep spies to keep more of them as it wears.
An assumption is an opinion.
In regard to the CS5, what I found was a group of opinions. As you noted, the CS5 is a fairly new tire, and I was unable to find a lot of data on it. When I went over to the Odyssey forum, I found that aeveral people were contemplating the purchase of them and few had them. Two stand out in my mind. One person who had purchased them for their Odyssey said that he purchased them, but was unconcerned about snow because he had dedicated snows. Another person who had these tires and drove on 1" of snow said that they were horrible. There is definitely a "General Consensus" that these tires are great in the wet and are great tires overall but in my research, the people who have used them in the snow say they suck and they have dedicated snows to avoid usage in the snow. Not one review that I read was complementary of these tires on the snow. Even though these are strictly anecdotal and less than scientific, I read enough to see a trend that these are perhaps not the best tires in the snow.
I am in no way knocking the CS5, it is an impressive tire and I would have liked nothing better than to have purchased 4 of them and save $46. over the Generals that I purchased. However, I have to look at the requirements of the application and one of the requirements is that they are good on snow.
If you look at the post made by Edward C in regard to the Tire Rack chart he linked, you see that the General is ranked #2 after the Continental True Contact. I purchased the General because I felt it was the best balance between application and pricepoint. Bottom line: On an Odyssey, it might be good for 35K.
In regard to the CS5, what I found was a group of opinions. As you noted, the CS5 is a fairly new tire, and I was unable to find a lot of data on it. When I went over to the Odyssey forum, I found that aeveral people were contemplating the purchase of them and few had them. Two stand out in my mind. One person who had purchased them for their Odyssey said that he purchased them, but was unconcerned about snow because he had dedicated snows. Another person who had these tires and drove on 1" of snow said that they were horrible. There is definitely a "General Consensus" that these tires are great in the wet and are great tires overall but in my research, the people who have used them in the snow say they suck and they have dedicated snows to avoid usage in the snow. Not one review that I read was complementary of these tires on the snow. Even though these are strictly anecdotal and less than scientific, I read enough to see a trend that these are perhaps not the best tires in the snow.
I am in no way knocking the CS5, it is an impressive tire and I would have liked nothing better than to have purchased 4 of them and save $46. over the Generals that I purchased. However, I have to look at the requirements of the application and one of the requirements is that they are good on snow.
If you look at the post made by Edward C in regard to the Tire Rack chart he linked, you see that the General is ranked #2 after the Continental True Contact. I purchased the General because I felt it was the best balance between application and pricepoint. Bottom line: On an Odyssey, it might be good for 35K.
My CS5 Grand Touring performed quite well in the snow.
I don't put too much faith in many online tire reviews because many people filling out Tire Rack surveys probably don't know that much about tires.
I don't really care what tire you buy. It's your money. But I think it's an exaggeration to say there's a "general consensus" that the CS5 series isn't good in the snow. I'd need to see more evidence before I believe that.
Some reviews from people comparing them to snow tires doesn't mean that much to me. Snow tires will make most any all-season tire look bad in comparison, even one that performs well for an all-season tire.
I don't put too much faith in many online tire reviews because many people filling out Tire Rack surveys probably don't know that much about tires.
I don't really care what tire you buy. It's your money. But I think it's an exaggeration to say there's a "general consensus" that the CS5 series isn't good in the snow. I'd need to see more evidence before I believe that.
Some reviews from people comparing them to snow tires doesn't mean that much to me. Snow tires will make most any all-season tire look bad in comparison, even one that performs well for an all-season tire.
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Two stand out in my mind. One person who had purchased them for their Odyssey said that he purchased them, but was unconcerned about snow because he had dedicated snows. Another person who had these tires and drove on 1" of snow said that they were horrible. There is definitely a "General Consensus" that these tires are great in the wet and are great tires overall but in my research, the people who have used them in the snow say they suck and they have dedicated snows to avoid usage in the snow. Not one review that I read was complementary of these tires on the snow. Even though these are strictly anecdotal and less than scientific, I read enough to see a trend that these are perhaps not the best tires in the snow.
You're putting a lot of faith in a couple reviews where people compare them to snow tires. If they compared the RT43 to snow tires, the General would probably also look bad.
I don't know where you chose to read reviews, but if you like reviews, there a several here that say the Ultra Touring is good in the snow.
http://www.treaddepot.com/group/cs5ut.html
Quote:
These tires have been great. Very quiet and great ride. This week, we got caught in a snow storm coming back from the mountains and they did amazing in 2-3" of snow on the highway up 6-8 degree grades.
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All though I've only driven on these tires for less than 1000 miles, I have driven them in a snow storm and they performed very well in the snow. They are not snow tires, but I did feel secure on the road with them in the snow.
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They have seen snow - and even low profile sizes on my Legacy - they performed very well.
Again, I don't care if you chose the RT43, it's your money. But making a claim that there's a "general consensus" that the CS5 is bad in the snow doesn't seem accurate. Also claiming you couldn't find a single review saying they're good in the snow seems sketchy, since I just spent a few minutes googling and found some.
Two stand out in my mind. One person who had purchased them for their Odyssey said that he purchased them, but was unconcerned about snow because he had dedicated snows. Another person who had these tires and drove on 1" of snow said that they were horrible. There is definitely a "General Consensus" that these tires are great in the wet and are great tires overall but in my research, the people who have used them in the snow say they suck and they have dedicated snows to avoid usage in the snow. Not one review that I read was complementary of these tires on the snow. Even though these are strictly anecdotal and less than scientific, I read enough to see a trend that these are perhaps not the best tires in the snow.
You're putting a lot of faith in a couple reviews where people compare them to snow tires. If they compared the RT43 to snow tires, the General would probably also look bad.
I don't know where you chose to read reviews, but if you like reviews, there a several here that say the Ultra Touring is good in the snow.
http://www.treaddepot.com/group/cs5ut.html
Quote:
These tires have been great. Very quiet and great ride. This week, we got caught in a snow storm coming back from the mountains and they did amazing in 2-3" of snow on the highway up 6-8 degree grades.
Quote:
All though I've only driven on these tires for less than 1000 miles, I have driven them in a snow storm and they performed very well in the snow. They are not snow tires, but I did feel secure on the road with them in the snow.
Quote:
They have seen snow - and even low profile sizes on my Legacy - they performed very well.
Again, I don't care if you chose the RT43, it's your money. But making a claim that there's a "general consensus" that the CS5 is bad in the snow doesn't seem accurate. Also claiming you couldn't find a single review saying they're good in the snow seems sketchy, since I just spent a few minutes googling and found some.
It was the "General Consensus" of those reviews that I read that the tires were not great on snow. I base this on the fact that 100% of the people who mentioned the words snow with this tire in the reviews that I read were less than impressed or were at least doubtful about them. Maybe I should have added the few extra words in hindsight, but hindsight is 20/20 vision.
I went with the best information that I had access to prior to making a decision. I made the best decision possible given that information. The vast majority of opinions on any item are anecdotal or opinion based and lack any kind of scientific foundation, agreed. However, when reviews are consistent across the board, it tends to IMO to create validity.
I'm glad your CS5's performed well in the snow. If you would have shared that information earlier, it would have been useful.
Any evidence (lacking test-track data in controlled conditions) is anecdotal anyway. Your statement about snow performance is anecdotal but it does not mean that it is not good information.
Sorry you don't like my conclusion. I still draw the same conclusion with perhaps more specificity as previously noted. Choice has been made, I'm not going to sit and second guess myself about it. In one sense, it really doesn't matter because these vans are such tire hogs anyway that if I still own it in 35-40K miles, I'll be repeating this process again anyway.
Discussion over.
I went with the best information that I had access to prior to making a decision. I made the best decision possible given that information. The vast majority of opinions on any item are anecdotal or opinion based and lack any kind of scientific foundation, agreed. However, when reviews are consistent across the board, it tends to IMO to create validity.
I'm glad your CS5's performed well in the snow. If you would have shared that information earlier, it would have been useful.
Any evidence (lacking test-track data in controlled conditions) is anecdotal anyway. Your statement about snow performance is anecdotal but it does not mean that it is not good information.
Sorry you don't like my conclusion. I still draw the same conclusion with perhaps more specificity as previously noted. Choice has been made, I'm not going to sit and second guess myself about it. In one sense, it really doesn't matter because these vans are such tire hogs anyway that if I still own it in 35-40K miles, I'll be repeating this process again anyway.
Discussion over.
I'm on my 2nd set of Yokohama Avid Ascend (T-rated) on the Odyssey. 1st set went to 50k with very even wear, could've gone longer but I wanted new tread for the winter. I would rate ice and snow traction as excellent for an all-season. In fact it's the best performing all-season in the snow I can remember owning. Hydroplaning is excellent, wet performance OK overall (can break them a bit easier than I like on takeoff), stopping performance is good. Dry performance terrific and predictable. Tread life (800AB), NVH, all excellent. All 8 balanced easy, no visible cracking. You put them on and they perform.
(If your deal falls through or if anyone else is looking)
(If your deal falls through or if anyone else is looking)
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I'm glad your CS5's performed well in the snow. If you would have shared that information earlier, it would have been useful.
I actually have shared it here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...iti#Post3557141
Again, it seems you put a lot of weight in a couple reviews comparing them to snow tires and seemingly missed other info on the tire.
I'm not trying to make you second guess your decision. I don't care what tire you buy. I'm simply pointing out your claim about a "general consensus" on the winter performance of the CS5 doesn't seem to be accurate.
I'm glad your CS5's performed well in the snow. If you would have shared that information earlier, it would have been useful.
I actually have shared it here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...iti#Post3557141
Again, it seems you put a lot of weight in a couple reviews comparing them to snow tires and seemingly missed other info on the tire.
I'm not trying to make you second guess your decision. I don't care what tire you buy. I'm simply pointing out your claim about a "general consensus" on the winter performance of the CS5 doesn't seem to be accurate.
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I'm glad your CS5's performed well in the snow. If you would have shared that information earlier, it would have been useful.
I actually have shared it here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...iti#Post3557141
Again, it seems you put a lot of weight in a couple reviews comparing them to snow tires and seemingly missed other info on the tire.
I'm not trying to make you second guess your decision. I don't care what tire you buy. I'm simply pointing out your claim about a "general consensus" on the winter performance of the CS5 doesn't seem to be accurate.
That's fine, you are entitled to your opinion, which you have pointed out now for the third time. Since I have nothing else positive, constructive or civil to add, I'm going to leave it at that.
I'd like to sincerely thank everyone else who contributed to this thread and provided information that helped me to make a tire decision.
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I'm glad your CS5's performed well in the snow. If you would have shared that information earlier, it would have been useful.
I actually have shared it here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...iti#Post3557141
Again, it seems you put a lot of weight in a couple reviews comparing them to snow tires and seemingly missed other info on the tire.
I'm not trying to make you second guess your decision. I don't care what tire you buy. I'm simply pointing out your claim about a "general consensus" on the winter performance of the CS5 doesn't seem to be accurate.
That's fine, you are entitled to your opinion, which you have pointed out now for the third time. Since I have nothing else positive, constructive or civil to add, I'm going to leave it at that.
I'd like to sincerely thank everyone else who contributed to this thread and provided information that helped me to make a tire decision.
I'd say pretty much any touring tire is terrible in the snow compared to a top winter tire.
Also I think half the people who buy CS5 dont know which model they actually purchased. There are 2 model lines and about 5 speed ratings between them.
I would hazard a guess that the W speed rated ultra touring is going to be worse than a T rated Grand Touring in the white stuff.
just my 2 cents.
Also snow differs greatly. Sometimes you have hard crunchy stuff that you get great traction on. Other times you have wet snow on a bed of ice that is slippery with any tire. So without knowing the actual conditions its pretty hard to quantify how good they are in winter without trying them yourself.
I know someone who thought the kumho escta 4x were good in winter. Well I thought they were pretty scary. Ok for light snow but any kind of ice and watch out.. I slid 50ft at about 5mph when we got hit with a surprise early ice storm before I had the winter tires on.
That's one reason why I like a decent all season vs summer tires. If you have 4 seasons with highly transitional weather for a few months summer tires don't cut it. While I would like summer tires for mid may to mid october. I dont really want to run my winter tires from October to may... And we have had may snow here.. just not very often.
With quality all seasons I can usually wait until late november or early december to put on the winter tires.. and take them back off early april or late march.
Also I think half the people who buy CS5 dont know which model they actually purchased. There are 2 model lines and about 5 speed ratings between them.
I would hazard a guess that the W speed rated ultra touring is going to be worse than a T rated Grand Touring in the white stuff.
just my 2 cents.
Also snow differs greatly. Sometimes you have hard crunchy stuff that you get great traction on. Other times you have wet snow on a bed of ice that is slippery with any tire. So without knowing the actual conditions its pretty hard to quantify how good they are in winter without trying them yourself.
I know someone who thought the kumho escta 4x were good in winter. Well I thought they were pretty scary. Ok for light snow but any kind of ice and watch out.. I slid 50ft at about 5mph when we got hit with a surprise early ice storm before I had the winter tires on.
That's one reason why I like a decent all season vs summer tires. If you have 4 seasons with highly transitional weather for a few months summer tires don't cut it. While I would like summer tires for mid may to mid october. I dont really want to run my winter tires from October to may... And we have had may snow here.. just not very often.
With quality all seasons I can usually wait until late november or early december to put on the winter tires.. and take them back off early april or late march.
Not sure I would agree. We have the CS4 Touring on our van and the winter traction is outstanding. Overall handling is [censored], but traction isn't the issue there. It's unfortunate as I would really like to buy Coppers again, but the constant feeling of riding on jello is very tedious on long trips.
Ohio resident, native of Minnesota.
Ohio resident, native of Minnesota.
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Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
It's all a matter of opinion.
The 2004 BMW I'm selling for a family member has Michelin Pilot Sport tires on it with lots of tread. I've seen people on here say they are just simply amazing even in rain.
I drove the car in rain and it hydroplaned and was very difficult to stop, they were awful in the rain! Something even my Camry with Goodyear Eagle GT tires did great in the rain.
The 2004 BMW I'm selling for a family member has Michelin Pilot Sport tires on it with lots of tread. I've seen people on here say they are just simply amazing even in rain.
I drove the car in rain and it hydroplaned and was very difficult to stop, they were awful in the rain! Something even my Camry with Goodyear Eagle GT tires did great in the rain.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
It's all a matter of opinion.
The 2004 BMW I'm selling for a family member has Michelin Pilot Sport tires on it with lots of tread. I've seen people on here say they are just simply amazing even in rain.
I drove the car in rain and it hydroplaned and was very difficult to stop, they were awful in the rain! Something even my Camry with Goodyear Eagle GT tires did great in the rain.
You are confusing the Pilot Sport (of which there are a number of different models) with the Pilot Super Sport (which are the tires most of us rant and rave about). They aren't even close to similar
What sub-model of Pilot sport is it wearing? The A/S3's are generally well regarded (I have them on my wife's Charger).
It's all a matter of opinion.
The 2004 BMW I'm selling for a family member has Michelin Pilot Sport tires on it with lots of tread. I've seen people on here say they are just simply amazing even in rain.
I drove the car in rain and it hydroplaned and was very difficult to stop, they were awful in the rain! Something even my Camry with Goodyear Eagle GT tires did great in the rain.
You are confusing the Pilot Sport (of which there are a number of different models) with the Pilot Super Sport (which are the tires most of us rant and rave about). They aren't even close to similar
What sub-model of Pilot sport is it wearing? The A/S3's are generally well regarded (I have them on my wife's Charger).
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
Lol I had no idea they were different. I thought Pilot Sport and Pilot Super Sports are the same thing? I'll have to go see.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Lol I had no idea they were different. I thought Pilot Sport and Pilot Super Sports are the same thing? I'll have to go see.
That's the issue
Yes, Pilot is the performance subset of Michelin tires, and within that subset are more subsets, one of which is the "sport" moniker which again has a further subset of models under it.
The Pilot Sport PS/2 was a very good performance tire (and insanely expensive) that was replaced by the Super Sport, which is basically better in every category. And then there's the Pilot Sport A/S3, which is a performance All-Season, which replaced a previous Pilot all season offering.
Here's the link to the Pilot section of Michelin's website:
http://www.michelinman.com/US/en/tires/all.html#!filter/family
ilot
Depending on the age of your tires, they may however not be featured there.
Lol I had no idea they were different. I thought Pilot Sport and Pilot Super Sports are the same thing? I'll have to go see.
That's the issue
Yes, Pilot is the performance subset of Michelin tires, and within that subset are more subsets, one of which is the "sport" moniker which again has a further subset of models under it.
The Pilot Sport PS/2 was a very good performance tire (and insanely expensive) that was replaced by the Super Sport, which is basically better in every category. And then there's the Pilot Sport A/S3, which is a performance All-Season, which replaced a previous Pilot all season offering.
Here's the link to the Pilot section of Michelin's website:
http://www.michelinman.com/US/en/tires/all.html#!filter/family
ilotDepending on the age of your tires, they may however not be featured there.
I have found that..... tirebuyer.com ......has excellent and better prices than most online tire dealers.
I just bought a set of Continental True Contacts from Canadian tire up here. Although they should be available everywhere that continental tires are available.
If you're looking at the RT43 which I was as well, I found that these on sale were very close to the same price, with an 80k mile warranty!
The tires are ridiculously quiet and smooth. I'm not sure how they managed this along with a firm enough side wall to be fairly responsive. If they last, they'll be one of the best tires I've owned. Theyre amazing in the rain, and supposedly great in the snow too.
Have fun shopping!
If you're looking at the RT43 which I was as well, I found that these on sale were very close to the same price, with an 80k mile warranty!
The tires are ridiculously quiet and smooth. I'm not sure how they managed this along with a firm enough side wall to be fairly responsive. If they last, they'll be one of the best tires I've owned. Theyre amazing in the rain, and supposedly great in the snow too.
Have fun shopping!
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