Tire Pressure Sensors

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I've been trying to do a little reading up on this, because both my 2015 Jeep and my 2018 Toyota have them. From what I can gather there are 2 types. Direct, and Indirect. Direct gives separate readouts on all 4 tires to within 1 PSI. And Indirect only gives a, "Low Pressure Warning" if the tire gets below a certain PSI. Mine must be Direct because I have separate readouts on all 4 tires on both vehicles on the dash.

They say this information comes from the different rolling rates of the tires, as determined by the cars ABS system. I can see that as a comparison to each other, but how does that determine actual PSI? Not to mention determine it to within 1 PSI accurately? I have no idea how much 1 PSI would effect the distance of a rolling circumference of a tire. I'm sure it would vary from size, pressure, temperature, number of plies, load rating vs. actual load, etc. That's a LOT of variables to determine 1 PSI accurately.

This whole thing runs off small Lithium Ion batteries, which I assume are located in the tire valves themselves. According to the article they claim a battery life of 5 to 10 years. Which pretty much means replacement every time you buy new tires. Has anyone had this done? If so what did 4 new batteries / sensors / valves run? Or do they just replace the battery? Has anyone cut one apart?

I really like this feature, because you can easily determine a slow leak with the touch of a button on the dash. Instead of running around the car with a tire pressure gauge. It makes it effortless to properly monitor your tire pressure. Especially on the road. It could save you from having a blowout.

This system makes it easy to keep both my Jeep and Toyota within 1 PSI all the way around. And you can watch the difference in pressure go up or down from hot to cold, high speed driving compared to low, etc. Have any of you had any problems with these type of systems? I'm in the desert, but I wondered about driving through standing water, or freezing slush, then have the car exposed to below freezing temperatures. For you people living in the rust belt, how have they held up?

I found this.

https://www.tiresplus.com/tires/tire-buying-guide/tpms/
 
So we've gone from -20F, to 50F, to snowing a ton, to freezing rain, back to 45F, then back into the teens all in the past month. Summers can hit 100+. My sensors haven't missed a beat. I've driven through standing water, packed my wheels full of snow, the south facing half of my car was covered in a quarter inch of ice the other day lol

My parents 2007 Caliber (oldest example
I personally have experience with, owned since new) never has had an issue either, and it sees the same type of weather. Like you said, you get new sensors when you get new tires, never had one die before a tire was due for replacement.
 
My wifes Audi A4 and my VW GTI have indirect TPMS. There are no sensors in the wheels and you gotta go through a menu to reset her TPMS and on my car there is a simple button in the glove box.

Neither car shows the tire pressure. A yellow light will come on and the you'll get a message in the display telling which tire(s) is low on air, but that's it.

A pro to the system this system is the use of cheap traditional rubber valve stems.

The con is not knowing the actual tire pressure.
My GTI states to put 38 PSI in the tires and the light wont trigger until a tire gets to 32 PSI.

Also, on my GTI, the stability control acts a little weird in very few driving situations unless you press/calibrate the TPMS button once a month, in which you should check the air pressure using a gauge anyways.
My car will give slight stability control brake engagements driving 70ish MPH around "Hospital Curve" in Columbus, OH.

You wont necessarily get new sensors when you get new tires. My wife had to get new tires when she had a Mazda3 before it was 2 years old and they didn't install new sensors.
Just removed the valve cores to let the air out and put them back in.

Salt doesn't affect direct style TPMS sensors as they are contained in the wheel assembly and protected from the elements.


Hospital Curve in Columbus, OH.







AR-170609408.jpg
 
2007 Volvo S80. Replaced 4 tire pressure sensors in 2017. Two had failed. Cost $500, ~ $100 per sensor + labor to remove tires and rebalance. Sensor and battery sealed in epoxy so replacement sensors.
 
Not sure if this was obvious but the tire sensor is integral with the tire valve. After the tech dismounts the tire he (or she), removes the defective sensor/ tire valve assembly and installs the new one. I got about 9 years on my GM ones. This isn't for everyone but I got a full set on EBay for $100 and the Tech installed them. YRMV. Lots of people seem to get bad ones. Check the reviews.
 
On GM the direct kind requires a special tool to match the sensor location to the display. Otherwise it is just a pressure sensor in the tire,nothing complicated afaik. Otherwise the display would be wrong on the tire position when the tires are rotated.
 
Originally Posted by bugeye
2007 Volvo S80. Replaced 4 tire pressure sensors in 2017. Two had failed. Cost $500, ~ $100 per sensor + labor to remove tires and rebalance. Sensor and battery sealed in epoxy so replacement sensors.

Is this type of robbery conducive to only Volvo, or are American manufacturers about the same?
 
Assuming the Jeep uses the same sensors as 2015+ Rams, the sweet thing about them is they don't require any programming provided you stick with the OEM part number. Pop them in and go.

In terms of the 5-10/yr replacement thing, I've had them fail in 5yrs, but I replace them on an as needed basis. Like you say, it's probably most wise to time replacements with a tire change to save a few bucks.
 
Although normal valve cores thread in, I think you need TPMS-specific ones so you don't have a dissimilar metals situation.

I had a perfectly good Denso TPMS in my 06 prius, but I couldn't unthread the core. I checked my pressure once the old-school way with a gauge and it didn't quite seat right and I was down 10 lbs the next day. Unable to change the core due to corrosion, I slapped an all new $35 sensor in there.

Toyota diagnostics through Techstream (available to the home user via ebay/amazon) show if they're on low battery, pretty neat. That would help the owner plan if they're going to change them soon. I feel like some of mine are original at 13 years old. Some people online have changed their batteries but it's tough, held in by potting compound, and micro-welded vs soldered.

My car's implementation just puts a yellow light on the dash, letting the end user wander around to all four corners checking which is the problem tire. It takes a 25% decrease to trigger the light, but you get to set the initial pressure. If I wanted the light on at 30 PSI I could just temporarily set my tires to 40, press the set-reset button, and there we go.

I have my own tire machine, but any idiot can break their tire bead (by jacking between their sidewall and a car's frame/ bumper) and slip a new sensor in if it's the valve hole style. Fords are a little tougher with their belt-around-the-drop-center sensors but that's a minority.
 
Here is another question. A few months ago I rotated my tires. Front to back criss cross. Did that screw anything up? Are they still reading as shown on the dash, or do I have to develop a "secret code" now?.... (LF = RR..... RF = LR).
 
I gave up on replacing the in tire sensors because of cost and programming hassels. I bought a TireMinder system and have the monitor in the car when I'm driving it and put it in the RV when I'm towing. The batteries are easy to replace & it tells you when they start to get low.
 
unless required sensors are a waste as my eyes + a $20 tire gauge can do the same + many sensors don't go "off" until your too low IMO!!
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by eljefino
.........I slapped an all new $35 sensor in there..........

Well that's certainly more livable than what Volvo charges!


For GM you can get a set of four for $50 and the tool to program them is another $9 on ebay.
 
Originally Posted by bugeye
2007 Volvo S80. Replaced 4 tire pressure sensors in 2017. Two had failed. Cost $500, ~ $100 per sensor + labor to remove tires and rebalance. Sensor and battery sealed in epoxy so replacement sensors.


Buy a new Volvo they don't use sensors any longer. But that may cost you a few more dollars than that.
 
Originally Posted by billt460
This whole thing runs off small Lithium Ion batteries, which I assume are located in the tire valves themselves. According to the article they claim a battery life of 5 to 10 years. Which pretty much means replacement every time you buy new tires. Has anyone had this done?

Hopefully everyone is buying new tires more often than 10 years! Except for the rare bad sensor, I've never heard of as short as 5 year TPMS life.

I got 4 new TPMS sensors for the 05 Honda at 12 years but should have done it at 11, due to cold weather failures. I got them from Amazon for $30 a wheel, and had them put on for free as part of a tire purchase. Two worked immediately and 2 never did. One of the working ones was bouncing around inside of the wheel, the tire shop replaced that for me for free, since it was their screwup. It was bouncing around loose in there but it was working!

After a year of futzing around with them myself, I had my trusted mechanic replace the 2 bad ones for about $175 ($50 each plus $75 labor for diagnostics/programming) and then everything worked again. Then I returned the 2 bad sensors and got $60 back. So about $235 total for all 4 wheels.
 
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