I don't get Toyota's pricing on the Yaris. It's supposed to be an economical car, which means it should not only be economical to operate, but economical to purchase as well. Toyota has its pricing so close to that of the Corolla's I don't understand how they're selling so many of them. Honda is doing the same thing with the Fit. It's price is so high you might as well spend the little bit extra and get the much nicer Civic. If people would refuse to buy these cars at these astronomical prices they'd be forced to lower the price down to where it should be. A base Yaris or Fit SHOULD be selling for right around $10K, and loaded no more than about $13K-$14K. The '09 "S" model Yaris I drove the other day was stickered at $17.5, and I've heard the Fit sport models are $1K more than that even. These prices are absolutely ridiculous! THESE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ECONOMICAL CARS PEOPLE!
Time to replace my Corolla, what should I get?
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It looks like they are close in price,but once you add options the cars are $3000-$4000 apart.
I cannot afford a $400 car payment,and the price difference keeps me within my budget.
I don't enjoy the $16,000 sticker,but most used vehicles I looked at were $13,000+ with 40-50k miles.
I cannot afford a $400 car payment,and the price difference keeps me within my budget.
I don't enjoy the $16,000 sticker,but most used vehicles I looked at were $13,000+ with 40-50k miles.
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Originally Posted By: grampi
Though I can easily afford it, I will never buy another new car.
Then something like a '79 Rabbit diesel is for you.
At this point in my life, I like having a factory warranty, no repair payments, scant maintenance to worry about, and a fresh primary ride every few years. Except for the occasional keeper (that I keep until it dies), flipping every 3-5 years hasn't cost all that much. Heck, I MADE MONEY on my last new Volvo after it got totaled.
Have you ever sat down and figured out what your new car costs per year actually are? Money magazine did an article on economy cars and flipping them was about $6-7k a year, total ownership costs. Flipping Jetta's and Volvo's every 3 years is probably a bit more...
It sounds like you don't have to worry about it and that's good for you. In fact, I like people like you because someone has to supply the used car market with well maintained depreciated cars and its not going to be me. Dealing with my older car problems pays like $500/hour compared to buying new cars and although I'd love to drive new cars, the savings lets me do other things I like more.
Ian
Originally Posted By: grampi
Though I can easily afford it, I will never buy another new car.
Then something like a '79 Rabbit diesel is for you.
At this point in my life, I like having a factory warranty, no repair payments, scant maintenance to worry about, and a fresh primary ride every few years. Except for the occasional keeper (that I keep until it dies), flipping every 3-5 years hasn't cost all that much. Heck, I MADE MONEY on my last new Volvo after it got totaled.
Have you ever sat down and figured out what your new car costs per year actually are? Money magazine did an article on economy cars and flipping them was about $6-7k a year, total ownership costs. Flipping Jetta's and Volvo's every 3 years is probably a bit more...
It sounds like you don't have to worry about it and that's good for you. In fact, I like people like you because someone has to supply the used car market with well maintained depreciated cars and its not going to be me. Dealing with my older car problems pays like $500/hour compared to buying new cars and although I'd love to drive new cars, the savings lets me do other things I like more.
Ian
Originally Posted By: XCELERATIONRULES
It looks like they are close in price,but once you add options the cars are $3000-$4000 apart.
I cannot afford a $400 car payment,and the price difference keeps me within my budget.
I don't enjoy the $16,000 sticker,but most used vehicles I looked at were $13,000+ with 40-50k miles.
Yeah, but I think MOST people look at it the way I do, why buy an optioned out Yaris or Fit when you could get a moderately optioned Corolla or Civic for the same, or almost the same price?
It looks like they are close in price,but once you add options the cars are $3000-$4000 apart.
I cannot afford a $400 car payment,and the price difference keeps me within my budget.
I don't enjoy the $16,000 sticker,but most used vehicles I looked at were $13,000+ with 40-50k miles.
Yeah, but I think MOST people look at it the way I do, why buy an optioned out Yaris or Fit when you could get a moderately optioned Corolla or Civic for the same, or almost the same price?
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I need an automatic,I like to do other things while driving and shifting gears isn't one of them.
I also need air,as I sweat terribly in summer.
If I'm going to be stuck with the vehicle for 10 plus years seems funny to worry about a couple $'s in options.
I keep my vehicles till they fall apart around me.
Looks like a hyndai might be up your alley.
I also need air,as I sweat terribly in summer.
If I'm going to be stuck with the vehicle for 10 plus years seems funny to worry about a couple $'s in options.
I keep my vehicles till they fall apart around me.
Looks like a hyndai might be up your alley.
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Originally Posted By: XCELERATIONRULES
I need an automatic,I like to do other things while driving and shifting gears isn't one of them.
I also need air,as I sweat terribly in summer.
If I'm going to be stuck with the vehicle for 10 plus years seems funny to worry about a couple $'s in options.
I keep my vehicles till they fall apart around me.
Looks like a hyndai might be up your alley.
A couple of dollars is one thing, but $17K or more for a sub-compact vehicle is getting ridiculous. That's why I buy used. Let the people who want new vehicles pay the exorbadent prices, I'll pick them up after they've depriciated. Korean cars ARE NOT for me. They are still unproven in terms of reliability and build quality.
I need an automatic,I like to do other things while driving and shifting gears isn't one of them.
I also need air,as I sweat terribly in summer.
If I'm going to be stuck with the vehicle for 10 plus years seems funny to worry about a couple $'s in options.
I keep my vehicles till they fall apart around me.
Looks like a hyndai might be up your alley.
A couple of dollars is one thing, but $17K or more for a sub-compact vehicle is getting ridiculous. That's why I buy used. Let the people who want new vehicles pay the exorbadent prices, I'll pick them up after they've depriciated. Korean cars ARE NOT for me. They are still unproven in terms of reliability and build quality.
grampi,
I gotta tell ya that as far as driving goes you'll be hard pressed to match the Corolla with any other vehicle than perhaps its' soulmate.. the Civic. I've driven hundreds of different vehicles and the Corolla is very effecient for its package and cost per mile. I would say that for the money spent you'll be dissapointed as others will fail to measure up. If your're rolling in the dough then step up to the Camry, if not then look on Craig's List for a newer Corolla. For what you'll get for the old one it may not cost you that much to upgrade??
I gotta tell ya that as far as driving goes you'll be hard pressed to match the Corolla with any other vehicle than perhaps its' soulmate.. the Civic. I've driven hundreds of different vehicles and the Corolla is very effecient for its package and cost per mile. I would say that for the money spent you'll be dissapointed as others will fail to measure up. If your're rolling in the dough then step up to the Camry, if not then look on Craig's List for a newer Corolla. For what you'll get for the old one it may not cost you that much to upgrade??
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Have you ever sat down and figured out what your new car costs per year actually are? Money magazine did an article on economy cars and flipping them was about $6-7k a year, total ownership costs. Flipping Jetta's and Volvo's every 3 years is probably a bit more...
It sounds like you don't have to worry about it and that's good for you. In fact, I like people like you because someone has to supply the used car market with well maintained depreciated cars and its not going to be me. Dealing with my older car problems pays like $500/hour compared to buying new cars and although I'd love to drive new cars, the savings lets me do other things I like more.
Ian
Actually I have. On average, amortized monthly, I pay from $135 to $155/mo to drive my new models, depending on what I want to drive. It takes some skill and effort to have it work it out that way, but I negotiate and sell well and finance little, and only when the investment return on holding the cash is greater.
Like I said, our last Volvo met an early total, and we made money on that one. That's unusual. On our '06 Jetta, the monthly rate came out to about $145/mo.
Have you ever sat down and figured out what your new car costs per year actually are? Money magazine did an article on economy cars and flipping them was about $6-7k a year, total ownership costs. Flipping Jetta's and Volvo's every 3 years is probably a bit more...
It sounds like you don't have to worry about it and that's good for you. In fact, I like people like you because someone has to supply the used car market with well maintained depreciated cars and its not going to be me. Dealing with my older car problems pays like $500/hour compared to buying new cars and although I'd love to drive new cars, the savings lets me do other things I like more.
Ian
Actually I have. On average, amortized monthly, I pay from $135 to $155/mo to drive my new models, depending on what I want to drive. It takes some skill and effort to have it work it out that way, but I negotiate and sell well and finance little, and only when the investment return on holding the cash is greater.
Like I said, our last Volvo met an early total, and we made money on that one. That's unusual. On our '06 Jetta, the monthly rate came out to about $145/mo.
H2GURU
I have to agree the Corolla is tough to beat, or even match. Considering the overall package (purchase price, fuel economy, reliability, ride comfort, etc.) few cars compete. I would have to say the '03-'08 Corollas and '02-'05 Civics are almost dead even in all these areas except one; for some reason Civics seem to be priced anywhere from $1K-$2K more than the same year Corollas with all other vehicle aspects being the same or comparable (mileage, options, trim levels, vehicle condition, etc). I haven't quite figured out why Civics hold slightly more retail value than do the Corollas. If there would have to be an edge given to one vehicle or the other, I would say it would have to go to the Corolla for two reasons; the Corolla's engine has a timing chain as compared to the Civic's timing belt (which needs to be replced every so often), and the Corolla's engine makes more torque at lower RPM's. The Civic engine really needs to rev to make any power.
However, if we move up to the '06 and newer Civics, it's clearly a superior car to the '03-'08 Corolla. I can't speak for the '09 Corolla as I know little about it and I haven't yet test driven one.
I have to agree the Corolla is tough to beat, or even match. Considering the overall package (purchase price, fuel economy, reliability, ride comfort, etc.) few cars compete. I would have to say the '03-'08 Corollas and '02-'05 Civics are almost dead even in all these areas except one; for some reason Civics seem to be priced anywhere from $1K-$2K more than the same year Corollas with all other vehicle aspects being the same or comparable (mileage, options, trim levels, vehicle condition, etc). I haven't quite figured out why Civics hold slightly more retail value than do the Corollas. If there would have to be an edge given to one vehicle or the other, I would say it would have to go to the Corolla for two reasons; the Corolla's engine has a timing chain as compared to the Civic's timing belt (which needs to be replced every so often), and the Corolla's engine makes more torque at lower RPM's. The Civic engine really needs to rev to make any power.
However, if we move up to the '06 and newer Civics, it's clearly a superior car to the '03-'08 Corolla. I can't speak for the '09 Corolla as I know little about it and I haven't yet test driven one.
Originally Posted By: XCELERATIONRULES
I need an automatic,I like to do other things while driving and shifting gears isn't one of them.
I also need air,as I sweat terribly in summer.
If I'm going to be stuck with the vehicle for 10 plus years seems funny to worry about a couple $'s in options.
I keep my vehicles till they fall apart around me.
Looks like a hyndai might be up your alley.
Yeah, but you can get all of the stuff you mention in a Corolla for the same or less than a Yaris. Dealership I was at had Corolla LE's with 7K on them for 14K with P/L, AT, PW, Cruise, Air, etc. What other options are missing? A brand new Corolla CE, which comes sans cruise and P/L P/W was 14K brand new.
I need an automatic,I like to do other things while driving and shifting gears isn't one of them.
I also need air,as I sweat terribly in summer.
If I'm going to be stuck with the vehicle for 10 plus years seems funny to worry about a couple $'s in options.
I keep my vehicles till they fall apart around me.
Looks like a hyndai might be up your alley.
Yeah, but you can get all of the stuff you mention in a Corolla for the same or less than a Yaris. Dealership I was at had Corolla LE's with 7K on them for 14K with P/L, AT, PW, Cruise, Air, etc. What other options are missing? A brand new Corolla CE, which comes sans cruise and P/L P/W was 14K brand new.
Originally Posted By: grampi
H2GURU
I have to agree the Corolla is tough to beat, or even match. Considering the overall package (purchase price, fuel economy, reliability, ride comfort, etc.) few cars compete. I would have to say the '03-'08 Corollas and '02-'05 Civics are almost dead even in all these areas except one; for some reason Civics seem to be priced anywhere from $1K-$2K more than the same year Corollas with all other vehicle aspects being the same or comparable (mileage, options, trim levels, vehicle condition, etc). I haven't quite figured out why Civics hold slightly more retail value than do the Corollas. If there would have to be an edge given to one vehicle or the other, I would say it would have to go to the Corolla for two reasons; the Corolla's engine has a timing chain as compared to the Civic's timing belt (which needs to be replced every so often), and the Corolla's engine makes more torque at lower RPM's. The Civic engine really needs to rev to make any power.
However, if we move up to the '06 and newer Civics, it's clearly a superior car to the '03-'08 Corolla. I can't speak for the '09 Corolla as I know little about it and I haven't yet test driven one.
How is the 03-08 Corolla not compare to an 06 Civic? My 08 Corolla is quiet, torquey engine, rides smooth, and gets almost 40 mpg. Just curious Grampi what makes the Civic a superior car to the 03-08 Corollas, which I have seen several of the 03's and 04's with 150K+ with no problems. From 1998 on, the Corolla has the same engine 1ZZ-FE. I am not following you on that one.
H2GURU
I have to agree the Corolla is tough to beat, or even match. Considering the overall package (purchase price, fuel economy, reliability, ride comfort, etc.) few cars compete. I would have to say the '03-'08 Corollas and '02-'05 Civics are almost dead even in all these areas except one; for some reason Civics seem to be priced anywhere from $1K-$2K more than the same year Corollas with all other vehicle aspects being the same or comparable (mileage, options, trim levels, vehicle condition, etc). I haven't quite figured out why Civics hold slightly more retail value than do the Corollas. If there would have to be an edge given to one vehicle or the other, I would say it would have to go to the Corolla for two reasons; the Corolla's engine has a timing chain as compared to the Civic's timing belt (which needs to be replced every so often), and the Corolla's engine makes more torque at lower RPM's. The Civic engine really needs to rev to make any power.
However, if we move up to the '06 and newer Civics, it's clearly a superior car to the '03-'08 Corolla. I can't speak for the '09 Corolla as I know little about it and I haven't yet test driven one.
How is the 03-08 Corolla not compare to an 06 Civic? My 08 Corolla is quiet, torquey engine, rides smooth, and gets almost 40 mpg. Just curious Grampi what makes the Civic a superior car to the 03-08 Corollas, which I have seen several of the 03's and 04's with 150K+ with no problems. From 1998 on, the Corolla has the same engine 1ZZ-FE. I am not following you on that one.
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Originally Posted By: grampi
H2GURU
I have to agree the Corolla is tough to beat, or even match. Considering the overall package (purchase price, fuel economy, reliability, ride comfort, etc.) few cars compete. I would have to say the '03-'08 Corollas and '02-'05 Civics are almost dead even in all these areas except one; for some reason Civics seem to be priced anywhere from $1K-$2K more than the same year Corollas with all other vehicle aspects being the same or comparable (mileage, options, trim levels, vehicle condition, etc). I haven't quite figured out why Civics hold slightly more retail value than do the Corollas. If there would have to be an edge given to one vehicle or the other, I would say it would have to go to the Corolla for two reasons; the Corolla's engine has a timing chain as compared to the Civic's timing belt (which needs to be replced every so often), and the Corolla's engine makes more torque at lower RPM's. The Civic engine really needs to rev to make any power.
However, if we move up to the '06 and newer Civics, it's clearly a superior car to the '03-'08 Corolla. I can't speak for the '09 Corolla as I know little about it and I haven't yet test driven one.
How is the 03-08 Corolla not compare to an 06 Civic? My 08 Corolla is quiet, torquey engine, rides smooth, and gets almost 40 mpg. Just curious Grampi what makes the Civic a superior car to the 03-08 Corollas, which I have seen several of the 03's and 04's with 150K+ with no problems. From 1998 on, the Corolla has the same engine 1ZZ-FE. I am not following you on that one.
I guess I should've clarified. My bad. I basically meant it's superior in design by having much nicer exterior lines, a better laid out interior, nicer dash controls and instrument panel layout, a 5 speed automatic, and slightly better highway fuel economy. It's just a more modern designed package overall. I didn't mean it's any more reliable or the build quality is better than that of the Corolla's as that's just not the case. To me, the new Civic is a more desireable car whereas the Corolla is more appliance-like, and in the case of the Corolla, there's certainly nothing wrong with being appliance-like.
For the record, the Corolla's engine isn't the same from '98 on. In 2000 the Corolla's engine got variable valve timing, which the '98 and '99 models didn't have. In '03 the engines had VVTI and HP increased from 120 to 130. The '06 and newer Civics have 140 HP.
Originally Posted By: grampi
H2GURU
I have to agree the Corolla is tough to beat, or even match. Considering the overall package (purchase price, fuel economy, reliability, ride comfort, etc.) few cars compete. I would have to say the '03-'08 Corollas and '02-'05 Civics are almost dead even in all these areas except one; for some reason Civics seem to be priced anywhere from $1K-$2K more than the same year Corollas with all other vehicle aspects being the same or comparable (mileage, options, trim levels, vehicle condition, etc). I haven't quite figured out why Civics hold slightly more retail value than do the Corollas. If there would have to be an edge given to one vehicle or the other, I would say it would have to go to the Corolla for two reasons; the Corolla's engine has a timing chain as compared to the Civic's timing belt (which needs to be replced every so often), and the Corolla's engine makes more torque at lower RPM's. The Civic engine really needs to rev to make any power.
However, if we move up to the '06 and newer Civics, it's clearly a superior car to the '03-'08 Corolla. I can't speak for the '09 Corolla as I know little about it and I haven't yet test driven one.
How is the 03-08 Corolla not compare to an 06 Civic? My 08 Corolla is quiet, torquey engine, rides smooth, and gets almost 40 mpg. Just curious Grampi what makes the Civic a superior car to the 03-08 Corollas, which I have seen several of the 03's and 04's with 150K+ with no problems. From 1998 on, the Corolla has the same engine 1ZZ-FE. I am not following you on that one.
I guess I should've clarified. My bad. I basically meant it's superior in design by having much nicer exterior lines, a better laid out interior, nicer dash controls and instrument panel layout, a 5 speed automatic, and slightly better highway fuel economy. It's just a more modern designed package overall. I didn't mean it's any more reliable or the build quality is better than that of the Corolla's as that's just not the case. To me, the new Civic is a more desireable car whereas the Corolla is more appliance-like, and in the case of the Corolla, there's certainly nothing wrong with being appliance-like.
For the record, the Corolla's engine isn't the same from '98 on. In 2000 the Corolla's engine got variable valve timing, which the '98 and '99 models didn't have. In '03 the engines had VVTI and HP increased from 120 to 130. The '06 and newer Civics have 140 HP.
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Originally Posted By: JustinH
The yaris is a good car, but the price in relation to a corolla is so little, it makes sense to buy the larger car.
Not in California...a brand new Yaris can be had out the door $12,800...a heck of a lot less then a bottom of the line Corolla.
The yaris is a good car, but the price in relation to a corolla is so little, it makes sense to buy the larger car.
Not in California...a brand new Yaris can be had out the door $12,800...a heck of a lot less then a bottom of the line Corolla.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: XCELERATIONRULES
It looks like they are close in price,but once you add options the cars are $3000-$4000 apart.
I cannot afford a $400 car payment,and the price difference keeps me within my budget.
I don't enjoy the $16,000 sticker,but most used vehicles I looked at were $13,000+ with 40-50k miles.
Yeah, but I think MOST people look at it the way I do, why buy an optioned out Yaris or Fit when you could get a moderately optioned Corolla or Civic for the same, or almost the same price?
Not in the Milky Way...on any planet there, a Yaris sells for thousands less then a Corolla...you make it sound as though they're very close in price...they are not....you can get a fairly good equiped Yaris for $12,800 out the door...far less then a same-equiped Corolla...
Originally Posted By: XCELERATIONRULES
It looks like they are close in price,but once you add options the cars are $3000-$4000 apart.
I cannot afford a $400 car payment,and the price difference keeps me within my budget.
I don't enjoy the $16,000 sticker,but most used vehicles I looked at were $13,000+ with 40-50k miles.
Yeah, but I think MOST people look at it the way I do, why buy an optioned out Yaris or Fit when you could get a moderately optioned Corolla or Civic for the same, or almost the same price?
Not in the Milky Way...on any planet there, a Yaris sells for thousands less then a Corolla...you make it sound as though they're very close in price...they are not....you can get a fairly good equiped Yaris for $12,800 out the door...far less then a same-equiped Corolla...
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Originally Posted By: grampi
H2GURU
I have to agree the Corolla is tough to beat, or even match. Considering the overall package (purchase price, fuel economy, reliability, ride comfort, etc.) few cars compete. I would have to say the '03-'08 Corollas and '02-'05 Civics are almost dead even in all these areas except one; for some reason Civics seem to be priced anywhere from $1K-$2K more than the same year Corollas with all other vehicle aspects being the same or comparable (mileage, options, trim levels, vehicle condition, etc). I haven't quite figured out why Civics hold slightly more retail value than do the Corollas. If there would have to be an edge given to one vehicle or the other, I would say it would have to go to the Corolla for two reasons; the Corolla's engine has a timing chain as compared to the Civic's timing belt (which needs to be replced every so often), and the Corolla's engine makes more torque at lower RPM's. The Civic engine really needs to rev to make any power.
However, if we move up to the '06 and newer Civics, it's clearly a superior car to the '03-'08 Corolla. I can't speak for the '09 Corolla as I know little about it and I haven't yet test driven one.
How is the 03-08 Corolla not compare to an 06 Civic? My 08 Corolla is quiet, torquey engine, rides smooth, and gets almost 40 mpg. Just curious Grampi what makes the Civic a superior car to the 03-08 Corollas, which I have seen several of the 03's and 04's with 150K+ with no problems. From 1998 on, the Corolla has the same engine 1ZZ-FE. I am not following you on that one.
I guess I should've clarified. My bad. I basically meant it's superior in design by having much nicer exterior lines, a better laid out interior, nicer dash controls and instrument panel layout, a 5 speed automatic, and slightly better highway fuel economy. It's just a more modern designed package overall. I didn't mean it's any more reliable or the build quality is better than that of the Corolla's as that's just not the case. To me, the new Civic is a more desireable car whereas the Corolla is more appliance-like, and in the case of the Corolla, there's certainly nothing wrong with being appliance-like.
For the record, the Corolla's engine isn't the same from '98 on. In 2000 the Corolla's engine got variable valve timing, which the '98 and '99 models didn't have. In '03 the engines had VVTI and HP increased from 120 to 130. The '06 and newer Civics have 140 HP.
Thanks for the clarification grampi. I know what you are saying, but the lines of the car and the dash layout is very subjective. I happen to think the latest Civics are fuuggly. I happen to think that the dash layout on the Corolla is easy to use and right at your fingertips. HVAC controls are huge and easy to turn and understand. The seats in my Corolla feel like a big couch and are very cushioned. Finally, I don't have a lot of faith in the latest reliability of certain Honda automatic transmissions.
We can agree to disagree on this, but that's what makes it fun to be a BITOGer!
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Originally Posted By: grampi
H2GURU
I have to agree the Corolla is tough to beat, or even match. Considering the overall package (purchase price, fuel economy, reliability, ride comfort, etc.) few cars compete. I would have to say the '03-'08 Corollas and '02-'05 Civics are almost dead even in all these areas except one; for some reason Civics seem to be priced anywhere from $1K-$2K more than the same year Corollas with all other vehicle aspects being the same or comparable (mileage, options, trim levels, vehicle condition, etc). I haven't quite figured out why Civics hold slightly more retail value than do the Corollas. If there would have to be an edge given to one vehicle or the other, I would say it would have to go to the Corolla for two reasons; the Corolla's engine has a timing chain as compared to the Civic's timing belt (which needs to be replced every so often), and the Corolla's engine makes more torque at lower RPM's. The Civic engine really needs to rev to make any power.
However, if we move up to the '06 and newer Civics, it's clearly a superior car to the '03-'08 Corolla. I can't speak for the '09 Corolla as I know little about it and I haven't yet test driven one.
How is the 03-08 Corolla not compare to an 06 Civic? My 08 Corolla is quiet, torquey engine, rides smooth, and gets almost 40 mpg. Just curious Grampi what makes the Civic a superior car to the 03-08 Corollas, which I have seen several of the 03's and 04's with 150K+ with no problems. From 1998 on, the Corolla has the same engine 1ZZ-FE. I am not following you on that one.
I guess I should've clarified. My bad. I basically meant it's superior in design by having much nicer exterior lines, a better laid out interior, nicer dash controls and instrument panel layout, a 5 speed automatic, and slightly better highway fuel economy. It's just a more modern designed package overall. I didn't mean it's any more reliable or the build quality is better than that of the Corolla's as that's just not the case. To me, the new Civic is a more desireable car whereas the Corolla is more appliance-like, and in the case of the Corolla, there's certainly nothing wrong with being appliance-like.
For the record, the Corolla's engine isn't the same from '98 on. In 2000 the Corolla's engine got variable valve timing, which the '98 and '99 models didn't have. In '03 the engines had VVTI and HP increased from 120 to 130. The '06 and newer Civics have 140 HP.
Thanks for the clarification grampi. I know what you are saying, but the lines of the car and the dash layout is very subjective. I happen to think the latest Civics are fuuggly. I happen to think that the dash layout on the Corolla is easy to use and right at your fingertips. HVAC controls are huge and easy to turn and understand. The seats in my Corolla feel like a big couch and are very cushioned. Finally, I don't have a lot of faith in the latest reliability of certain Honda automatic transmissions.
We can agree to disagree on this, but that's what makes it fun to be a BITOGer!
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Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: XCELERATIONRULES
It looks like they are close in price,but once you add options the cars are $3000-$4000 apart.
I cannot afford a $400 car payment,and the price difference keeps me within my budget.
I don't enjoy the $16,000 sticker,but most used vehicles I looked at were $13,000+ with 40-50k miles.
Yeah, but I think MOST people look at it the way I do, why buy an optioned out Yaris or Fit when you could get a moderately optioned Corolla or Civic for the same, or almost the same price?
Not in the Milky Way...on any planet there, a Yaris sells for thousands less then a Corolla...you make it sound as though they're very close in price...they are not....you can get a fairly good equiped Yaris for $12,800 out the door...far less then a same-equiped Corolla...
I just priced out and bought a new Corolla in March of this year. My Corolla CE was 14K with automatic transmission and A/C, at two different dealerships 2 hours away from each other. The Yarii I looked at were also at two different dealerships and were 13,800 respectively and went up from there.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: XCELERATIONRULES
It looks like they are close in price,but once you add options the cars are $3000-$4000 apart.
I cannot afford a $400 car payment,and the price difference keeps me within my budget.
I don't enjoy the $16,000 sticker,but most used vehicles I looked at were $13,000+ with 40-50k miles.
Yeah, but I think MOST people look at it the way I do, why buy an optioned out Yaris or Fit when you could get a moderately optioned Corolla or Civic for the same, or almost the same price?
Not in the Milky Way...on any planet there, a Yaris sells for thousands less then a Corolla...you make it sound as though they're very close in price...they are not....you can get a fairly good equiped Yaris for $12,800 out the door...far less then a same-equiped Corolla...
I just priced out and bought a new Corolla in March of this year. My Corolla CE was 14K with automatic transmission and A/C, at two different dealerships 2 hours away from each other. The Yarii I looked at were also at two different dealerships and were 13,800 respectively and went up from there.
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Thanks for the clarification grampi. I know what you are saying, but the lines of the car and the dash layout is very subjective. I happen to think the latest Civics are fuuggly. I happen to think that the dash layout on the Corolla is easy to use and right at your fingertips. HVAC controls are huge and easy to turn and understand. The seats in my Corolla feel like a big couch and are very cushioned. Finally, I don't have a lot of faith in the latest reliability of certain Honda automatic transmissions.
We can agree to disagree on this, but that's what makes it fun to be a BITOGer!
No offense but I've always thought the Corollas from 03-08 were a little too round and disproportionate looking. I think the new one looks disproportionate as well. I like the sleekness of the new Civic. My aunt has an 09 Corolla and IMHO the interior pales in comparison to a Civic. Although it is assembled well, the material quality doesn't seem so great.
Thanks for the clarification grampi. I know what you are saying, but the lines of the car and the dash layout is very subjective. I happen to think the latest Civics are fuuggly. I happen to think that the dash layout on the Corolla is easy to use and right at your fingertips. HVAC controls are huge and easy to turn and understand. The seats in my Corolla feel like a big couch and are very cushioned. Finally, I don't have a lot of faith in the latest reliability of certain Honda automatic transmissions.
We can agree to disagree on this, but that's what makes it fun to be a BITOGer!
No offense but I've always thought the Corollas from 03-08 were a little too round and disproportionate looking. I think the new one looks disproportionate as well. I like the sleekness of the new Civic. My aunt has an 09 Corolla and IMHO the interior pales in comparison to a Civic. Although it is assembled well, the material quality doesn't seem so great.
Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Thanks for the clarification grampi. I know what you are saying, but the lines of the car and the dash layout is very subjective. I happen to think the latest Civics are fuuggly. I happen to think that the dash layout on the Corolla is easy to use and right at your fingertips. HVAC controls are huge and easy to turn and understand. The seats in my Corolla feel like a big couch and are very cushioned. Finally, I don't have a lot of faith in the latest reliability of certain Honda automatic transmissions.
We can agree to disagree on this, but that's what makes it fun to be a BITOGer!
No offense but I've always thought the Corollas from 03-08 were a little too round and disproportionate looking. I think the new one looks disproportionate as well. I like the sleekness of the new Civic. My aunt has an 09 Corolla and IMHO the interior pales in comparison to a Civic. Although it is assembled well, the material quality doesn't seem so great.
The one thing that I don't like about the Civics are the tail lights. I know, it sounds nit picky, but I kind of like the round tail lights of the Corolla.
The front of the Corolla does look a little frumpy, but I won't lose sleep over it.
Am I confident that my Corolla that only paid 14K for brand new will make it to 250-300K without a ton of problems? Yes. If I owned a Civic, would I expect the same longevity? Yes.
Who are we fooling here anyways? I drive a Corolla so I am going to like it more than a Civic and you drive a Civic so you're going to approach it from that angle as well. They are both solid cars, and that's about all I have to say.
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Thanks for the clarification grampi. I know what you are saying, but the lines of the car and the dash layout is very subjective. I happen to think the latest Civics are fuuggly. I happen to think that the dash layout on the Corolla is easy to use and right at your fingertips. HVAC controls are huge and easy to turn and understand. The seats in my Corolla feel like a big couch and are very cushioned. Finally, I don't have a lot of faith in the latest reliability of certain Honda automatic transmissions.
We can agree to disagree on this, but that's what makes it fun to be a BITOGer!
No offense but I've always thought the Corollas from 03-08 were a little too round and disproportionate looking. I think the new one looks disproportionate as well. I like the sleekness of the new Civic. My aunt has an 09 Corolla and IMHO the interior pales in comparison to a Civic. Although it is assembled well, the material quality doesn't seem so great.
The one thing that I don't like about the Civics are the tail lights. I know, it sounds nit picky, but I kind of like the round tail lights of the Corolla.
The front of the Corolla does look a little frumpy, but I won't lose sleep over it.
Am I confident that my Corolla that only paid 14K for brand new will make it to 250-300K without a ton of problems? Yes. If I owned a Civic, would I expect the same longevity? Yes.
Who are we fooling here anyways? I drive a Corolla so I am going to like it more than a Civic and you drive a Civic so you're going to approach it from that angle as well. They are both solid cars, and that's about all I have to say.
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A problem I have with the Civic is how outrageous the prices are. When I bought my car the dealer wouldn't budge and I ended paying MSRP. Thinking about it now, I want to kick myself. Of course I was a 16 year old getting his first car so I guess I have an excuse for being nieve.
My mom almost ended up buying a Corolla but I convinced her to get a Camry instead. Of course we had the Accord on the top of our list but the dealer were being snobs so we went to the Toyota dealer instead.
My mom almost ended up buying a Corolla but I convinced her to get a Camry instead. Of course we had the Accord on the top of our list but the dealer were being snobs so we went to the Toyota dealer instead.
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Originally Posted By: grampi
H2GURU
I have to agree the Corolla is tough to beat, or even match. Considering the overall package (purchase price, fuel economy, reliability, ride comfort, etc.) few cars compete. I would have to say the '03-'08 Corollas and '02-'05 Civics are almost dead even in all these areas except one; for some reason Civics seem to be priced anywhere from $1K-$2K more than the same year Corollas with all other vehicle aspects being the same or comparable (mileage, options, trim levels, vehicle condition, etc). I haven't quite figured out why Civics hold slightly more retail value than do the Corollas. If there would have to be an edge given to one vehicle or the other, I would say it would have to go to the Corolla for two reasons; the Corolla's engine has a timing chain as compared to the Civic's timing belt (which needs to be replced every so often), and the Corolla's engine makes more torque at lower RPM's. The Civic engine really needs to rev to make any power.
However, if we move up to the '06 and newer Civics, it's clearly a superior car to the '03-'08 Corolla. I can't speak for the '09 Corolla as I know little about it and I haven't yet test driven one.
How is the 03-08 Corolla not compare to an 06 Civic? My 08 Corolla is quiet, torquey engine, rides smooth, and gets almost 40 mpg. Just curious Grampi what makes the Civic a superior car to the 03-08 Corollas, which I have seen several of the 03's and 04's with 150K+ with no problems. From 1998 on, the Corolla has the same engine 1ZZ-FE. I am not following you on that one.
I guess I should've clarified. My bad. I basically meant it's superior in design by having much nicer exterior lines, a better laid out interior, nicer dash controls and instrument panel layout, a 5 speed automatic, and slightly better highway fuel economy. It's just a more modern designed package overall. I didn't mean it's any more reliable or the build quality is better than that of the Corolla's as that's just not the case. To me, the new Civic is a more desireable car whereas the Corolla is more appliance-like, and in the case of the Corolla, there's certainly nothing wrong with being appliance-like.
For the record, the Corolla's engine isn't the same from '98 on. In 2000 the Corolla's engine got variable valve timing, which the '98 and '99 models didn't have. In '03 the engines had VVTI and HP increased from 120 to 130. The '06 and newer Civics have 140 HP.
Thanks for the clarification grampi. I know what you are saying, but the lines of the car and the dash layout is very subjective. I happen to think the latest Civics are fuuggly. I happen to think that the dash layout on the Corolla is easy to use and right at your fingertips. HVAC controls are huge and easy to turn and understand. The seats in my Corolla feel like a big couch and are very cushioned. Finally, I don't have a lot of faith in the latest reliability of certain Honda automatic transmissions.
We can agree to disagree on this, but that's what makes it fun to be a BITOGer!
Have you driven a new Civic? If not (and it sounds like you haven't), you should. They're very nice cars.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Originally Posted By: grampi
H2GURU
I have to agree the Corolla is tough to beat, or even match. Considering the overall package (purchase price, fuel economy, reliability, ride comfort, etc.) few cars compete. I would have to say the '03-'08 Corollas and '02-'05 Civics are almost dead even in all these areas except one; for some reason Civics seem to be priced anywhere from $1K-$2K more than the same year Corollas with all other vehicle aspects being the same or comparable (mileage, options, trim levels, vehicle condition, etc). I haven't quite figured out why Civics hold slightly more retail value than do the Corollas. If there would have to be an edge given to one vehicle or the other, I would say it would have to go to the Corolla for two reasons; the Corolla's engine has a timing chain as compared to the Civic's timing belt (which needs to be replced every so often), and the Corolla's engine makes more torque at lower RPM's. The Civic engine really needs to rev to make any power.
However, if we move up to the '06 and newer Civics, it's clearly a superior car to the '03-'08 Corolla. I can't speak for the '09 Corolla as I know little about it and I haven't yet test driven one.
How is the 03-08 Corolla not compare to an 06 Civic? My 08 Corolla is quiet, torquey engine, rides smooth, and gets almost 40 mpg. Just curious Grampi what makes the Civic a superior car to the 03-08 Corollas, which I have seen several of the 03's and 04's with 150K+ with no problems. From 1998 on, the Corolla has the same engine 1ZZ-FE. I am not following you on that one.
I guess I should've clarified. My bad. I basically meant it's superior in design by having much nicer exterior lines, a better laid out interior, nicer dash controls and instrument panel layout, a 5 speed automatic, and slightly better highway fuel economy. It's just a more modern designed package overall. I didn't mean it's any more reliable or the build quality is better than that of the Corolla's as that's just not the case. To me, the new Civic is a more desireable car whereas the Corolla is more appliance-like, and in the case of the Corolla, there's certainly nothing wrong with being appliance-like.
For the record, the Corolla's engine isn't the same from '98 on. In 2000 the Corolla's engine got variable valve timing, which the '98 and '99 models didn't have. In '03 the engines had VVTI and HP increased from 120 to 130. The '06 and newer Civics have 140 HP.
Thanks for the clarification grampi. I know what you are saying, but the lines of the car and the dash layout is very subjective. I happen to think the latest Civics are fuuggly. I happen to think that the dash layout on the Corolla is easy to use and right at your fingertips. HVAC controls are huge and easy to turn and understand. The seats in my Corolla feel like a big couch and are very cushioned. Finally, I don't have a lot of faith in the latest reliability of certain Honda automatic transmissions.
We can agree to disagree on this, but that's what makes it fun to be a BITOGer!
Have you driven a new Civic? If not (and it sounds like you haven't), you should. They're very nice cars.
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