Tightening drain plug and oil filter.

[Craig750]

Originally Posted By: PurplePride
So, did those top notch mechanics use a torque wrench? Are they engineers?
Hard to say what side of the argument your post supports.


It is not hard really. A person just needs to read what is being said and understand it. If you still aren't sure what I have said and want to know, PM me and I will explain it more simply for you.

 

[moving2]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ

... and I'm sure you've seen F1 teams perform an oil change and using a torque wrench on the drain plug?

Nobody is saying not to use a torque wrench, there are bolts on cars that require proper torque like head bolts and nobody disputes that you need to use the torque wrench on these cases, but drain plug is just not one of them.

If you use a torque wrench on every bolt that you can access, that's fine, but don't pull a straw man argument here with F1 teams.


ETIT: Porsche is not one of the F1 teams, and hasn't been since 1962

Originally Posted By: Craig750

1st sentence.
Making assumptions about F1 teams and assunptions about what I have seen then trying to pass it of as a fact to try and ridicule me?


Why did you even bring F1 teams into a discussion about drain plugs / oil filters and torque wrenches? F1 teams use all kinds of equipment I don't need, and nothing I can think of relating to F1 applies to torque wrenches on drain plugs and oil filters. I fail to see how an F1 team using a torque wrench has anything to do with this specific discussion. Ridiculing you isn't hard when you come out of left field like this.

Originally Posted By: Craig750

2nd sentence.
Volunteering yourself to be the voice for everybody, then making assumptions for everbody regarding not needing to use a torque wrench.


You never said if you agree or disagree with this statement KrisZ made. Please let us know:

Originally Posted By: KrisZ

Nobody is saying not to use a torque wrench, there are bolts on cars that require proper torque like head bolts and nobody disputes that you need to use the torque wrench on these cases, but drain plug is just not one of them.



Originally Posted By: Craig750

Straw man argument?????

Yes, straw man argument. The straw man argument is making the discussion about F1 teams and their choice to use a torque wrench when we are talking about drain plugs and oil filters on regular passenger vehicles.

As for Ferrari and Porsche, do you have any information that suggests they use torque wrenches on oil filters and drain plugs? If not, then why did you bring it into the discussion?

Hopefully you are beginning to see the pattern of irrelevant arguments you've been making in favor of using a torque wrench on an oil filter / drain plug. If not, let me know and I'll make it easier for you to understand.

 

[Hazmat]

I would just like to clarify. I was not trying to be arrogant in my posts. Someone took a pot shot at me and I just happened to take a pot shot back. Sorry if I offended anyone. I read the posts on this web site because I would like to learn more about oil, and try to keep my automobiles in the best possible condition (they are an expensive investment). Like others on this site, I was just putting forward information that I know to be true. Do I think that I know more about bolts and proper specifications than most mechanics? Yes.

In my position I have volumes of specification binders filled with documented and tested specifications for things as simple as verifying the chemical make-up of 1018 CR Steel to assembling the landing gear for a 737X. There is a reason that I have to deal with all of this paperwork and verification that is involved with all of these specifications. That reason is to ensure that tested methods are used and applied to make sure that failures do on occur.

It is true that probably 99% of the time you will not strip the threads out on an oil pan plug using a standard box end wrench. It is the other 1% of the time that keeps the thread repair insert companies like Keensert in business.

Chances are some Engineer somewhere spent the time doing an analysis on the threads in the oil pan and determined how much force an average person would apply onto that plug using a standard box end wrench. They then probably determined that they wanted to make the flats on that plug based on that anticipated force and wrench size to minimize that potential of stripping the threads.

I have spent a significant amount of money on my torque wrenches (of which I get calibrated regularly) and they don't do me any good sitting in a tool box looking pretty. I bought them to use them. It takes me 2 seconds to open the drawer that they are in and pull them out. That is significantly less time than it would take if I happened to strip the threads out and had to repair the threads or replace the oil pan.

 

[Craig750]

It is only a straw man argument because you are challenged in understanding the relevant fundamentals being discussed.

 

[sparkplug]

NO! For those of you who work at quick lube place, do not, DO NOT use the impact gun to tighten the drain plug. I recently changed the oil in my GFs Jeep and she had gone to Monroe to get it changed because I wasn't home. The drain plug was on so tight while I was pulling on the wrench I was dragging myself across the ground. The filter was on so tight the gasket was slightly crushed.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Hazmat
So generally, you can get by doing it by feel....but what I am saying is .... if you have a torque wrench you there is no reason not to use it. You have to get a wrench out anyway...so what is the big deal with getting out the proper one.


What you say is true, but there are qualifications to that. First, there are lots of torque wrenches in people's toolboxes that are way out of calibration. Secondly, there are vehicles out there where torque specs are difficult to find without spending large dollars on a proper shop manual. When a shop manual price exceeds the price of an oil pan change, we're past the point of diminishing returns.


I agree. My torque wrench is in a seperate case, and doesn't go down to a low enough setting for snugging a filter or drain plug. Feel has worked for decades for me, and we aren't talking anything high tech that would require a torque wrench IMO. If the tool is easily accessable, and offers peace of mind to the person changing the oil then by all means go for it.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I agree. My torque wrench is in a seperate case, and doesn't go down to a low enough setting for snugging a filter or drain plug. Feel has worked for decades for me, and we aren't talking anything high tech that would require a torque wrench IMO. If the tool is easily accessable, and offers peace of mind to the person changing the oil then by all means go for it.


Certainly. There's nothing wrong with doing it. My torque wrench hasn't been used for the better part of a decade. It certainly would need to be tested if I wanted to start using it.

I'm careful, too, and not likely to strip out my threads changing oil. I've never had a problem for decades. To get all the torque specs for my Audi would require me to buy the Bentley manual at about $150, give or take. I can get a new oil pan, gasket, and drain plug for under $100.

If I strip the threads out, sure, it'll be a major pain. It's just not going to happen, though. If it does, it's my vehicle and my problem. I'd be more impressed if quick lube places and dealers routinely used torque wrenches, as opposed to DIYers needing them. The lube places need to work on quality control, not you or me.

 

[crazyoildude]

hand tight plus 1/2 turn on the filter on the drain plug i use a socket and just tighten it to the spec. of my right hand

 

[milwaukee]

Every single time the words "straw man argument" are mentioned online extreme stupidity ensues.

The person that brings it up tries to act so smart yet comes across anything but.

 

[Hazmat]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I agree. My torque wrench is in a seperate case, and doesn't go down to a low enough setting for snugging a filter or drain plug. Feel has worked for decades for me, and we aren't talking anything high tech that would require a torque wrench IMO. If the tool is easily accessable, and offers peace of mind to the person changing the oil then by all means go for it.


Certainly. There's nothing wrong with doing it. My torque wrench hasn't been used for the better part of a decade. It certainly would need to be tested if I wanted to start using it.

I'm careful, too, and not likely to strip out my threads changing oil. I've never had a problem for decades. To get all the torque specs for my Audi would require me to buy the Bentley manual at about $150, give or take. I can get a new oil pan, gasket, and drain plug for under $100.

If I strip the threads out, sure, it'll be a major pain. It's just not going to happen, though. If it does, it's my vehicle and my problem. I'd be more impressed if quick lube places and dealers routinely used torque wrenches, as opposed to DIYers needing them. The lube places need to work on quality control, not you or me.


quick google search comes up with 18 - 22 ft/lbs for most Audi's

 

[demarpaint]

I'm doing oil changes for a little over 35 years now, I think, it might be longer. I've never stripped an oil pan or tightened up a filter that I couldn't get off. The only dumb thing I did was take out an oil sending unit, get a phone call (cordless and cell phones didn't exist so I had to go into the house), and forgot to put the oil sending unit in. I started the engine and had my own little oil spill.

While a torque wrench certainly isn't going to hurt anything I don't see the need for it in this instance. But to each his own! Go for it!