Tie Rods, Swaybar Links, Rack, or Strut Mount?

[c3uo]

I have a 2016 Lexus RX (nee Toyota Highlander) with only 70,000 miles. The last few weeks it developed a clunk in the steering wheel when turning at parking lot speed. If the vehicle is stationery, and you turn the wheel it clunks when moving off centre / changing directions. It can be quite loud if you're slowly backing out of the driveway. It drives normally on the highway (although might be starting to wander a bit) and doesn't seem to make any noises over bumps (although it is hard to tell with the much softer winter tires).

I've jacked it up and there's no ball joint play at 12 and 6. At 3 and 9 there's movement and it has a very loud clunk when I rock the wheel. I figured tie rod, but can't figure out which one. When I hold the outer tie rods they seem to not have excessive play. I took the pry bar to the tie rods and stabilizer links. They all seem to have no play and I could not replicate the knocking. There's no difference in driver's side to passenger side, and both wheels on the front have similar amounts of play.

I tried to check the steering rack mounting bolts and again I found no movement. I also checked the intermediate steering shaft and it seemed to have no movement at the universal joints. When I push the tires at full lock from the outside they still "wiggle" and clunk.

I thought maybe it was something funny like strut mount bearings. I then looked through my records and the front struts and strut mounts were actually replaced under warranty 3.5 years ago 20,000 miles by the dealer trying to track down a rattle in the suspension. It's hard to believe they'd be faulty already with normal wear and tear (no accident or massive pothole).

I tried to take a few videos:
Clunk:

New video by J M

photos.app.goo.gl

Outer tie rods:

New video by J M

photos.app.goo.gl

New video by J M

photos.app.goo.gl

New video by J M

photos.app.goo.gl

Inner tie rods:

New video by J M

photos.app.goo.gl

New video by J M

photos.app.goo.gl

Any thoughts? What else could I check? I hate to start throwing parts at it.

THanks!

 

[GSCJR]

Outers

 

[KevinMalone]

Your description of the issue makes me think tie rods. There seems to be excessive play in the outer tie rod ball joint in the first and third videos. Might as well replace both outer and inner?

 

[eljefino]

I'm thinking inner tie rods. Had one that would tighten up with the "droop" of being up on a jack. If you were on an alignment rack with turntables and weight on the wheels you might find it.

 

[Lubener]

Take it for a front end inspection and estimate. That is usually free. A forum is not the place for a front end "guess" inspection

 

[c3uo]

Thanks. I have an appointment at the dealer on Wednesday, but was hoping I could just swap a tie rod myself this weekend. It turns out no local parts supplier has the part available before next Thursday so I'll wait and see what the dealer says (small town with limited local service facilities). I presume it is safe to drive but going to give me excess tire wear. It is starting to feel a bit loose on the road.

 

[meadows]

Let us know

 

[Number_35]

Good videos! The one outer tie-rod end looks sloppy to me.

 

[Trav]

It sure looks like some inner and possibly outer tie rod play but in this video is the sway bar hitting the cv axle or is it an optical illusion?
There looks like movement in the upper sway bar link?

Google Photos

photos.google.com

 

[c3uo]

Just got the call from the dealer. They’re saying intermediate steering shaft. I have a hard time believing it. Oh and it’s $1500.

I kept saying are you sure it’s not a tie rod and they said they don’t think so.

They’ve been honest, and I do trust them, but isn’t it strange at 113,000 km to need and intermediate steering shaft? Do the videos above look like it?

 

[Trav]

Just like a doctor get a second opinion. That is a lot of wood for a "I don't think so".

 

[Nukeman7]

I see some minor excessive outer tie rod movement suggesting wear in both ends. Can't tell if it is only that play or it is combined with wear in the inner tie rods too. Can you retest the outer tie rod ends by tugging on the tie rod itself instead of shaking the tires? It should have no free play gap in the ball joint end of the outer tie rod and just articulate without any looseness.

 

[c3uo]

Thanks for replies. As usual it’s crummy timing (isn’t it always?) where I plan to be away next week and wanted my wife to be able to drive the car while I’m away.

I found videos I took where I replicated the clunking by moving the tire but the steering shaft hadn’t even started spinning yet (ie the rack hadn’t translated yet making the shaft spin) - so I still have a hard time believing the intermediate steering shaft is it.

Not sure what to do now. But thanks for everyone’s input. I’m not sure if I have time to take it elsewhere for a second opinion, but I also have a hard time thinking it’s the ISS (which was quite common on older Toyotas). It’s funny, the first test drive they said they couldn’t see anything wrong, I pushed harder as I said it was making noise and was pulling. They then called me back and presented a $1500 bill and questioned if it’s safe…. I’m trying not to be a difficult customer. As I said they’ve always been fair in the past and maybe they are correct.

 

[The Critic]

Symptoms match an ISS failure to me, but I am also not there in person.

 

[c3uo]

Symptoms match an ISS failure to me, but I am also not there in person.

Thanks for your feedback. Is it as simple as putting a pair of vice grips on the bottom (where the ISS connects to the rack) to hold it firm and see if there’s play / clunk at the steering wheel when you wiggle it?

 

[The Critic]

Thanks for your feedback. Is it as simple as putting a pair of vice grips on the bottom (where the ISS connects to the rack) to hold it firm and see if there’s play / clunk at the steering wheel when you wiggle it?

The slop isn’t always evident when you do a wiggle test. The wear can be in the joint or in the splines and it doesn’t take much for the “pop” or “clunk” to be evident.

 

[GSCJR]

The clunk can sometimes be heard on the inside of the cabin, when the intermediate shaft fails; mine did. Toyota covered it under warranty back then. Toyota has had problematic intermediate shaft for years, which I can't explain, and the dealer also tried to sell me an alignment, which I kindly declined. I still believe based on your videos, your outers are showing excessive free play.

 

[The Critic]

Also, for the record, I can’t get the videos to play.

 

[c3uo]

Just to follow up, I got back under the car, cleaned up and sprayed the intermediate steering shaft u joint with a light lubricant to see if it would fix the clunk, and it did. I’m not sure how long it’ll last - I only used some PB Blaster Teflon lube I had in a spray can to clean it up and lubricate the joint, but it hasn’t clunked since. It still has more slop than I’d like in the steering (really always has since new), but I think that’s a combination of the tie rods and steering shaft joints.

Assuming this only lasts a few weeks - what is a recommended lubricant for the lower steering shaft universal joint (underneath vehicle). A friend recommended sea foam deep creep.

 

[c3uo]

As a follow up - I finally gave in and replaced the intermediate steering shaft. The steering kept getting looser since February and had ~2" play. Once I had the old steering shaft out, I could clearly see the lower universal joint had a bushing failure / excessive play. Kind of disappointing for a 2016 Lexus with 72,500 miles that has never been driven hard.

It's a fairly easy DIY job. I drove my RX up on ramps, and the steering shaft bolt at the rack was easily accessible from the drivers side tire well with a socket extension (12 mm bolt and probably 12" extension). You don't even have to remove the wheel. I first marked the orientation with a touch up paint pen at the rack and used the seat belt to hold the steering wheel. From underneath the car I used a pry bar and hammer to slide the shaft off the rack once the bolt was removed.

From inside remove the lower dash trim, remove an HVAC duct, mark the back of the column and shaft with the touch up paint pen, and remove the bolt. You can then use a screwdriver in the u-joint to pry it out from behind the column if it's tight (mine just pulled off, but in the end I had to remove the shaft a few times as you'll read following).

I transferred the paint marks from the old shaft to the new one to install the new shaft at the exact same orientation (although presuming the steering wheel and tires didn't move it probably wasn't needed). My first time was not perfect so don't tighten the bolt completely at the steering column and take it for a short test drive. I had to pull the shaft off behind the steering column and realign it one notch to bring the wheel to centre.

Once everything is aligned torque the upper and lower bolts to 26 ft-lbs.

The OEM intermediate steering shaft is part 45220-0E110. I should also warn people that the aftermarket steering shaft that is available from Rockland did not fit my vehicle. It is slightly larger diameter at the base, and rubbed very very slightly at the firewall. Let's just say I got pretty good at changing out the steering shaft since I removed my old one, put in the aftermarket one, readjusted the aftermarket one, took it out since it rubbed, reinstalled my old one, and then installed the new one, and readjusted the new one...

One other lesson learned - when I reinstalled my old shaft for a week the steering wheel was clearly off centre. I took it for a test drive and it immediately set off a bunch of errors on the dash (not a good day). I had to get my OBD connected as the error was due to the steering wheel sensor noting it was off centre and disabled the collision mitigation system and lane departure. Once I recentered the wheel and cleared the code it has not come back

The dealer recommended getting an alignment when you replace the steering shaft. I'm not sure why. You don't change the wheel toe or camber. You're just replacing the shaft between the rack and steering wheel. Worst case is it's slightly off centre and you have to realign it one notch. The Toyota Service Bulletins do not recommend / require an alignment.

Anyway - knock on wood - it's hopefully fixed now.