How would you guys like to see smaller V-6 engines in midsize cars that are smoother than 4 cylinder engines, but get similar gas mileage. One that comes to mind is the old Mazda 2.5L and the Dodge 2.7L as notorious for sludge as it was, it got pretty good MPG even with the 4 spd auto. Toyota announced today thet will be producing a 2.7L V-6 with a 6spd automatic, so maybe this is the future. Honestly, who needs 270hp in a camry family sedan? I'd rather have 190hp from a small V-6 and call it a day and keep my license. I also like the smaller V-6s better than the I-4 because it is much smoother and much less noisy/thrashy at high RPM. Let's hear what you guys think!
Thoughts on Smaller V-6 Engines
- Thread starter parimento1
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Pretty clear some Americans don't want smaller engines.
I'm somewhat distressed the 1.0, 1.3L and 1.4 D4D Toyota buzzboxen aren't available in the US. Whatever can haul my butt PtA to PtB is big enough for me.
I'm somewhat distressed the 1.0, 1.3L and 1.4 D4D Toyota buzzboxen aren't available in the US. Whatever can haul my butt PtA to PtB is big enough for me.
Ah,the Lust for HP in America, the more things change the more they stay the same. Even with gas prices and all this enviromental mumbo jumbo, take away big HP engines and then the real grumbling begins. Who wants a 270 hp Camry, family sedan, a family man, a man who has to be responsible enough to buy a family car, but wants a Mustang GT, under the hood if nothing else. Bring on the Hemi Caravans for 2009!!
Oh yeah, make that Caravan, a Hemi Hybrid, to get the tax break.
Originally Posted By: parimento1
How would you guys like to see smaller V-6 engines in midsize cars that are smoother than 4 cylinder engines, but get similar gas mileage. One that comes to mind is the old Mazda 2.5L and the Dodge 2.7L as notorious for sludge as it was, it got pretty good MPG even with the 4 spd auto. Toyota announced today thet will be producing a 2.7L V-6 with a 6spd automatic, so maybe this is the future. Honestly, who needs 270hp in a camry family sedan? I'd rather have 190hp from a small V-6 and call it a day and keep my license. I also like the smaller V-6s better than the I-4 because it is much smoother and much less noisy/thrashy at high RPM. Let's hear what you guys think!
Toyota, in the guise of Lexus, has a 2.5L V-6 (a member of the current GR family of V-6s that started as a 4.0L truck V-6) that they're currently installing in the IS-250. I haven't driven one, but it's reported to be a very nice, if somewhat torque-challenged, engine. We have the 3.5L version of the same in my wife's Avalon -- very nice in that version.
I like the idea, and I suspect we will see more small sixes as the pressure of gas prices continues to rise.
How would you guys like to see smaller V-6 engines in midsize cars that are smoother than 4 cylinder engines, but get similar gas mileage. One that comes to mind is the old Mazda 2.5L and the Dodge 2.7L as notorious for sludge as it was, it got pretty good MPG even with the 4 spd auto. Toyota announced today thet will be producing a 2.7L V-6 with a 6spd automatic, so maybe this is the future. Honestly, who needs 270hp in a camry family sedan? I'd rather have 190hp from a small V-6 and call it a day and keep my license. I also like the smaller V-6s better than the I-4 because it is much smoother and much less noisy/thrashy at high RPM. Let's hear what you guys think!
Toyota, in the guise of Lexus, has a 2.5L V-6 (a member of the current GR family of V-6s that started as a 4.0L truck V-6) that they're currently installing in the IS-250. I haven't driven one, but it's reported to be a very nice, if somewhat torque-challenged, engine. We have the 3.5L version of the same in my wife's Avalon -- very nice in that version.
I like the idea, and I suspect we will see more small sixes as the pressure of gas prices continues to rise.
I heard they used to have 2.0L V-6s, I forgot in which cars though.
The Supra used to have a 2.0
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Pretty clear some Americans don't want smaller engines.
I'm somewhat distressed the 1.0, 1.3L and 1.4 D4D Toyota buzzboxen aren't available in the US. Whatever can haul my butt PtA to PtB is big enough for me.
Righ Tee Oh! I find myself wanting(lusting) after many of the smaller 4-cylinder powerplants available in different parts of the world. There is a small Ecotec available in Europe that I feel would find itself a big seller in America, unfortunately all we get is the Daewoo Aveo from GM. Also, it would be nice if Americans could get their hands on some of the smaller diesels.
As for smaller V-6 engines, I would rather have a slightly larger 4-cylinder. Less moving parts and I have always thought v-6 engines sound similar to a Hoover. Not counting the Nissan VQ. The Honda 2.4s I have experienced have all been smooth and quite robust. If I was certain the automatic transaxles were as stout I would probably purchase an Accord from the '98-'02 vintages. Alas the Scion Xc is a small car with a big motor and I do remember something about the new Corolla having the big 4-cylinder as an option.
Pretty clear some Americans don't want smaller engines.
I'm somewhat distressed the 1.0, 1.3L and 1.4 D4D Toyota buzzboxen aren't available in the US. Whatever can haul my butt PtA to PtB is big enough for me.
Righ Tee Oh! I find myself wanting(lusting) after many of the smaller 4-cylinder powerplants available in different parts of the world. There is a small Ecotec available in Europe that I feel would find itself a big seller in America, unfortunately all we get is the Daewoo Aveo from GM. Also, it would be nice if Americans could get their hands on some of the smaller diesels.
As for smaller V-6 engines, I would rather have a slightly larger 4-cylinder. Less moving parts and I have always thought v-6 engines sound similar to a Hoover. Not counting the Nissan VQ. The Honda 2.4s I have experienced have all been smooth and quite robust. If I was certain the automatic transaxles were as stout I would probably purchase an Accord from the '98-'02 vintages. Alas the Scion Xc is a small car with a big motor and I do remember something about the new Corolla having the big 4-cylinder as an option.
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yea the Honda 4 cylinders are as good as they get, never drove the 2.2 in the S2000, but I drove the 2.0 in the RSX- man what a smooth, sweet 4 cylinder. As far as I'm concerned most 4 cylinders are noisy, harsh and buzzy, im not a big fan. I never thought the V-6s sounded like vacuums haha thats new to me. Although I always did think the smaller 4 cylinders esp the Honda 1.7 sound like lawnmowers: )
Most of my experience with V6 engines has come with GM motors and I have found them to be coarse and lackluster when it comes to exhaust sound. Put a nice exhaust on a I-4 and you get a motorcycle like sound which I have always enjoyed.
Always thought it was funny to see my buddies putting exhaust systems on thier 3.4 Camaros and Firebirds! The Charge of the Light Kirby Brigade!
I'm not saying all V6 engines sound mostly terrible, apparently the more advanced the engine and rpm limit the better. The highly-tuned V6s from Japan are not bad. Your average SOHC 16V engine sounds great with a free flowing cat back system.
Always thought it was funny to see my buddies putting exhaust systems on thier 3.4 Camaros and Firebirds! The Charge of the Light Kirby Brigade!
I'm not saying all V6 engines sound mostly terrible, apparently the more advanced the engine and rpm limit the better. The highly-tuned V6s from Japan are not bad. Your average SOHC 16V engine sounds great with a free flowing cat back system.
yes you are correct the OHV V-6s from GM and Ford are quite coarse but have very good low end torque. I had a Ford Taurus with 3.0L OHV Vulcan, it was coarse, but had a nice little throaty roar to it. My 97 Toyota Avalon, which is my current car sounds so good and so smooth at high revs I visit the redline a few times daily just for fun!
I have an engineering mechanics book that has a chapter about the dynamics of piston engines. I was flipping through it some months back, and if I remember correctly, based on the inherent imbalances of stuff jumping around inside the block, the best configurations for smoothness/lack of vibration in order are: V12, I6, V8, I4, V6, I5, I3. I noted (and was surprised) that I6 is better than V8 and that V6 was worse than I4. I can't get to the book just now, so I can't answer any questions (and I wish I remember where H6 and H4 fell). The order given is based on not having any counter-rotating balance shafts, but did use ideal bank angle, firing order, and crankshft balance.
There are clever ways to smooth out an engine, and manfs have obviously found most of them. I'm impressed with how smooth MB, Audi and now Volvo and VW got their I5. The point is that the V6 is not inherently smoother than an I4 and turns out to be quite a compromise really. So count me in for a nice balance-shafted (licensed from Mitsubishi) Porsche 3.0 I4.
There are clever ways to smooth out an engine, and manfs have obviously found most of them. I'm impressed with how smooth MB, Audi and now Volvo and VW got their I5. The point is that the V6 is not inherently smoother than an I4 and turns out to be quite a compromise really. So count me in for a nice balance-shafted (licensed from Mitsubishi) Porsche 3.0 I4.
Originally Posted By: Camu Mahubah
Most of my experience with V6 engines has come with GM motors and I have found them to be coarse and lackluster when it comes to exhaust sound. Put a nice exhaust on a I-4 and you get a motorcycle like sound which I have always enjoyed.
I have no idea how anyone could prefer an annoying 4 banger with exhaust over a 6 cylinder. The only 4 bangers I think sound decent are the Subaru boxer engines. Give me a Buick turbo V6 any day even over some V8s.
Anyone who has driven a 944S2 knows just how bad idle vibrations can be on a big 4 cylinder. More cylinders make it feel more refined.
Most of my experience with V6 engines has come with GM motors and I have found them to be coarse and lackluster when it comes to exhaust sound. Put a nice exhaust on a I-4 and you get a motorcycle like sound which I have always enjoyed.
I have no idea how anyone could prefer an annoying 4 banger with exhaust over a 6 cylinder. The only 4 bangers I think sound decent are the Subaru boxer engines. Give me a Buick turbo V6 any day even over some V8s.
Anyone who has driven a 944S2 knows just how bad idle vibrations can be on a big 4 cylinder. More cylinders make it feel more refined.
Originally Posted By: parimento1
I heard they used to have 2.0L V-6s, I forgot in which cars though.
Mitsubishi Lancer had a 1.6l V6 in 1992.
There was also an 1.8l V6 Mazda MX-3.
And the 7th gen. Mitsubishi Galant had a 2.0L V6.
I heard they used to have 2.0L V-6s, I forgot in which cars though.
Mitsubishi Lancer had a 1.6l V6 in 1992.
There was also an 1.8l V6 Mazda MX-3.
And the 7th gen. Mitsubishi Galant had a 2.0L V6.
Originally Posted By: Camu Mahubah
I'm not saying all V6 engines sound mostly terrible, apparently the more advanced the engine and rpm limit the better. The highly-tuned V6s from Japan are not bad.
Most GM V6s remind me of whoopie cushions.
I'm not saying all V6 engines sound mostly terrible, apparently the more advanced the engine and rpm limit the better. The highly-tuned V6s from Japan are not bad.
Most GM V6s remind me of whoopie cushions.
Originally Posted By: parimento1
How would you guys like to see smaller V-6 engines in midsize cars that are smoother than 4 cylinder engines, but get similar gas mileage. One that comes to mind is the old Mazda 2.5L and the Dodge 2.7L as notorious for sludge as it was, it got pretty good MPG even with the 4 spd auto.
Are you talking about the 2.5L from the mid-90's? I'd like a small V-6, but not like that Mazda because its mileage was terrible: EPA 18/24 on premium vs. 23/31 on regular for the 2.0L. The 2.3L in my Mazda does 22/29 on regular and, at 156 hp, probably makes more power than the 164 hp V6 (rated before they had to meet tighter standards for power ratings).
How would you guys like to see smaller V-6 engines in midsize cars that are smoother than 4 cylinder engines, but get similar gas mileage. One that comes to mind is the old Mazda 2.5L and the Dodge 2.7L as notorious for sludge as it was, it got pretty good MPG even with the 4 spd auto.
Are you talking about the 2.5L from the mid-90's? I'd like a small V-6, but not like that Mazda because its mileage was terrible: EPA 18/24 on premium vs. 23/31 on regular for the 2.0L. The 2.3L in my Mazda does 22/29 on regular and, at 156 hp, probably makes more power than the 164 hp V6 (rated before they had to meet tighter standards for power ratings).
yea I was talking about the mid 90's Mazda 2.5L V-6, I really liked it, i had a 97 626 with it and a 5 spd manual...What a great car when it wasnt in the shop lol. It sounded great and was very smooth.
hm..never liked diesels although they offer excellent fuel economy. My friends diesel jetta is VERY slow and pretty loud. Although to save about 1000 bucks a year in gas id put up with it. He gets almost 50mpg on the highway sometimes with the manual tranny
How about Ford's new EcoBoost engines? Small engines with turbos basically. I dont think this will be good for Ford, as it adds complexity. Not good if you are trying to improve your reputation for quality. Not to mention I assume premium fuel will have to be used, so theres really no savings in a turbo 4 vs a v6. I don't see why they'd do this!
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