Thoughts on retirement savings in the US

People look at successful people and see only the success, not the hard work, not the years of sacrifice, not the losses, not the risk, and none of the challenges it took to achieve the success.

It‘s an easy trap to fall into.

It’s happened in this thread.

Don‘t fall into that trap.

It’s important to avoid it because it allows you to rationalize giving up. Falling into the trap of that thinking allows you to take the easy path, that spirals down into debt and failure, instead of continuing to work hard and overcoming the inevitable failures and setbacks that every successful person faces.

My favorite story, from a bro (former fighter pilot, now business owner) who was struggling to put his real estate business together at the same time he was getting out of the Navy.

“Joe” was living in a cheap condo, having rented his house to save money because their cash flow was tight. His wife was in the hospital, undergoing surgery for a brain tumor.

He had several properties that were between tenants. Mortgages were due.

He was about to default because he didn’t have the cash.

While she was still hospitalized, he sold his wife’s brand new Jeep Cherokee (they had paid cash), took the cash, covered the mortgages, and bought a crappy, used sky blue Ford Taurus with 100,000 miles on it so they would have a car.

When he picked up his wife at the hospital, through the drugs, confusion of brain surgery, and the pain, she looked up at him from her wheelchair and asked, “Honey, where’s my Jeep?”


That was 26 years ago. Joe and his wife still have that house. It’s been rented again, because they have a multi million dollar house in an exclusive area of South Carolina, a condo in Miami, and several successful businesses.

It’s easy to look at their success and be envious.

Unless you know just what risks, and sacrifices, they made to get there.

Don’t be envious.

It’s a poison that blocks your own path to success.
 
Astro14 nice post.

Luck is not a thing. There I wrote it.

Yes randomness exists and if luck is a thing - what is it? Bending chance? Getting more than a random outcome from a random event?

How?
 
I agree Pablo - Luck depends on perspective. It’s easy to say, “they were lucky” when viewing other people’s success, because you only see the success. Not the work. Not the failures. Not the losses.

In that sense, luck is a specious lie. A rationalization.

I think the thing that most impresses me about @JeffKeryk ’s posts are his sense of gratitude. He considers himself very lucky. He is, no doubt, but he’s grateful for it and credits that luck rather than his own hard work in overcoming adversity.

In that sense, luck is truly a blessing.

For Jeff, luck is an attitude that recognizes the great gift of opportunity that’s been given and gratitude for the successes that have happened. That’s both admirable and, I think, the key to success and happiness.

Wallowing in excuses about how you can’t succeed is the surest path to unhappiness and failure.

Jeff - I do admire that about you and mean no disrespect in discussing you. I’ll take down or edit this post if you’re not comfortable with what I’ve said.
 
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“Luck” is plugging away, doing without, working 70 hours a week at a dirty job, often coming home with rancid grease all over your work uniform (that may or may not come out in the first washing), because you need the overtime, your wife quit her job to take care of a disabled child (20 years ago when we had very little). Doing side work on the weekends while your friends & relatives are all partying & blowing $ like it’s water. Driving old, worn out vehicles, usually more than one-because if one goes down hard & can‘t be immediately fixed, still got to get to work, store, medical appointments, etc. Yep, I know ALL about luck!
 
BUT-I have been lucky to have a wife who is an angel, one of the most supportive people on earth! That takes care of our family when I don’t have the energy left to do it, so I am lucky too! Luck is a positive attitude, an inability to stay down when life knocks us down. CIC, keep getting back up!
 
I'm an anti-supernaturalist/atheist so I don't believe in divine intervention or good luck or bad luck or knocking on wood or lucky hats or praying the almighty will deem me worthy of being saved but forsake that 6 year old over there. I don't believe anything is preordained and I don't believe the universe conspires for or against anyone. I believe the universe is ruled by the laws of physics/science and they are indifferent to what's good or bad for you or me - they just are what they are. Does that mean everyone has total control over the course of their life? Of course not! Bad things will happen to some people no matter their choices, but that's just chance, not "bad luck", which has some sort of inherent judgment associated with it - that the person experiencing it wasn't supposed to experience it or is unfairly experiencing it, but cold hard indifferent chance is the risk WE ALL take in life. Will good things happen to some people too? Sure, but again that's just chance. The idea of good luck and bad luck discounts the millions of decisions every person makes over the course of their lives that have either a positive or negative impact on their life. You can make choices that maximize the chance of positive outcomes and make decisions that minimize the chance of negative outcomes - that's it. My motto is to focus on what you do have control over and don't dwell on what is out of your control.
 
I was told early in my working career that one of the keys to success in retirement is not only what you save, but what you don't spend.
If you own a house free and clear, especially in a market that has had enormous price increases in real estate, if you don't have car payments and a lot of credit card debt, it will be much easier to live on reduced income.

For the people that didn't plan and wasted a lot of money on frivolous things and now are ill prepared for retirement, I can only pray that the current march towards socialism is reversed and crushed. I bear absolutely no responsibility towards my fellow man when it is their own fault.
 
Thanks. Yeah, I look around at these wealthy folks who claim they "just invested smartly" so they can now live in $5,000,000 houses and drive a fleet of $100,000 cars. No, sorry. No "smart investments" bringing 5% returns on money THEY PERSONALLY EARNED delivering pizzas nets those types of returns.

They are the benefactor of one or more of generally various types of luck that cannot be repeated:
* Starting WAY ahead with wealth in life, college paid for, free cars, expenses paid for in life, etc.
* Starting WAY ahead with stable parents, excellent mentors, etc.
* Did not have any major setbacks (no bad career choices, terrible bosses, unexpected job losses, deaths that were major setbacks, companies going under, victim of crimes, victims of accidents, health issues, etc.)
* Made some really lucky bets on the markets (gambled and won on Bitcoin, Apple, IBM, etc. on the 5% of companies or investments that soared)
* Avoided really bad bets in the markets (gambled and lost on Level 3, MCI, or the 95% of companies that no longer exist)

Then folks claim, they're so hard working and smart... blah blah blah. Totally ignoring all the massive amounts of LUCK they had in getting their successes/
Luck or wise life choices?
 
I was told early in my working career that one of the keys to success in retirement is not only what you save, but what you don't spend.
If you own a house free and clear, especially in a market that has had enormous price increases in real estate, if you don't have car payments and a lot of credit card debt, it will be much easier to live on reduced income.

For the people that didn't plan and wasted a lot of money on frivolous things and now are ill prepared for retirement, I can only pray that the current march towards socialism is reversed and crushed. I bear absolutely no responsibility towards my fellow man when it is their own fault.
Yes, except I am reaping what I sowed and have more income that when I was gainfully employed.
 
In spite of all the dog-piling on me, I'm not persuaded that luck isn't about 90% of the difference.

Folks here are outright calling me stupid and lazy. I assure you, that's not the case. I'd easily put my work experiences, degrees, and sacrifices up against the next person and demonstrate I've worked every bit as hard or harder. The major difference for all of us, good or bad, is luck. Here's one example: I served in the military and deployed to war multiple times. I did not get a signing bonus but the classes behind me got a $65,000 sign on bonus. Same MOS career field, just different signing date. That was pure luck. $65,000 is a game changer when you're in your 20s or 30s. It's a huge down payment on a house, or a nice reliable vehicle, or a nice start on an investment portfolio and getting debt free, etc. "Nights and weekends?" Plenty. I've had 2 jobs for decades as well. I also worked all throughout all 3 of my degrees, worked and went to school.

I also harbor survivors guilt, b/c I was relatively unharmed on my deployments but others were seriously injured or died. That was also 100% good luck for me and bad luck for them. Luck is nearly 100% of life and it's silly to think you can "work" your way into or out of some of the situations life, and luck, throw at you.

But I'm not inclined to spend more time arguing with folks who think they are "self made" and no luck was involved.
 
Literally not the benefactor of any of those!

Didn’t start ahead

My parents were a mess

Restarted my career

My “portfolio” is made of bread and butter mutual funds that anyone has access to right now

I invest in no load index funds - the market goes up my portfolio goes up the market goes down my portfolio goes down.

It really ain’t all that complicated.
You made the decision and stuck to the plan !
 
I know a woman and her 28 year old sister died from a very aggressive brain cancer.
Her illness wiped out the family’s savings and retirement.

This type of situation is understandable and I do feel bad that it lead the parents into bankruptcy.
Life is brutal I do not mean that sarcastically.
 
Thanks. Yeah, I look around at these wealthy folks who claim they "just invested smartly" so they can now live in $5,000,000 houses and drive a fleet of $100,000 cars. No, sorry. No "smart investments" bringing 5% returns on money THEY PERSONALLY EARNED delivering pizzas nets those types of returns.

They are the benefactor of one or more of generally various types of luck that cannot be repeated:
* Starting WAY ahead with wealth in life, college paid for, free cars, expenses paid for in life, etc.
* Starting WAY ahead with stable parents, excellent mentors, etc.
* Did not have any major setbacks (no bad career choices, terrible bosses, unexpected job losses, deaths that were major setbacks, companies going under, victim of crimes, victims of accidents, health issues, etc.)
* Made some really lucky bets on the markets (gambled and won on Bitcoin, Apple, IBM, etc. on the 5% of companies or investments that soared)
* Avoided really bad bets in the markets (gambled and lost on Level 3, MCI, or the 95% of companies that no longer exist)

Then folks claim, they're so hard working and smart... blah blah blah. Totally ignoring all the massive amounts of LUCK they had in getting their successes/
Luck could be but they made the decision to take a certain amount of risk.

It is easier to sit in front of the Tv and drink beer and smoke joints that get educated and or improve your value over the years.
 
All I can tell you is, when I got to AA at 33 years of age, they told me to do a few simple things.
One problem; I was incapable of doing any of them.

IMO, being wrong can be the best thing; the thing that just might save your life.
Just my 2 cents.
 
Now that the retirement years are here, I collect Social Security and have my 401k of which 40% is a Roth 401K. In another account I have a Merrill free trading account. The last 12 months I reaped 26K between the two with no tax load. Everything in my Merrill account is unrealized gains. I don't have trading stocks just investment stocks like SPY, APPL CVX and WMT. Very rarely will I chase a high flyer. My home is paid for. Tax load is about $1500 a year, personal property tax is $900. I have a designated savings account for taxes. $250 is transferred every month to this account. This is how I do it YMMV
 
Very interesting thread. There's still quite a bit of chest beating going on. I, too, have a "nose to the grindstone" story, but I outgrew the need to keep boasting to everyone about it decades ago. They are a dime a dozen.
luck is an attitude that recognizes the great gift of opportunity that’s been given

The definition of luck in my head is simply that I am grateful to have been born into a segment of society that actually IS "given" the gift of opportunity. Many in the world do not have it, and our self pity stories don't even begin to compare to theirs. That's the fault that I see in many of the arguments here. People here tell stories that somehow suggest everyone is born and raised with equal opportunity. It's tough to develop one's opportunities when you're in survival mode just to have food, shelter, and clothing, let alone go to community college. Shame on those who squander their opportunities. Sad that many grow up lacking the opportunities many of us here have.
 
good luck and bad luck. opportunities and risks. we all have them regardless of what we do.

save and invest 10% from an early age or now. live within your means always. use it up, fix it up, make it do or do without. cut the cable tv cord, get a library card, buy and fill your own coffee thermos, and walk daily. love something or someone beyond yourself. plan your retirement from your first day on every job. do right by others. find a small pleasure in something every day. don’t follow the herd to keep up with the latest fashion, hike your own trail. welcome every small success and embrace failure as a learning tool. if you cannot overcome feeling sorry for yourself volunteer in a veterans hospital.

pick jobs or a career that offers a pension plan or make your own and stick to it, especially when it hurts. watch expenses when you invest. when you are young and healthy buy some life and disability insurance. pay cash. pay off loans early.
 
Very interesting thread. There's still quite a bit of chest beating going on. I, too, have a "nose to the grindstone" story, but I outgrew the need to keep boasting to everyone about it decades ago. They are a dime a dozen.


The definition of luck in my head is simply that I am grateful to have been born into a segment of society that actually IS "given" the gift of opportunity. Many in the world do not have it, and our self pity stories don't even begin to compare to theirs. That's the fault that I see in many of the arguments here. People here tell stories that somehow suggest everyone is born and raised with equal opportunity. It's tough to develop one's opportunities when you're in survival mode just to have food, shelter, and clothing, let alone go to community college. Shame on those who squander their opportunities. Sad that many grow up lacking the opportunities many of us here have.
No one would be chest-thumping without the good luck or bad luck argument being pushed here.

Let's be clear about what's being argued here - it's not that chance has no impact on someone's life - it's that you can't just universally generalize all wealthy people were lucky and all people who aren't wealthy must have been unlucky. That is a ridiculous position and any specific "chest-thumping" stories in this post are simply meant to show cases where people became successful starting from meager beginnings and going against the odds. I agree with you, there's nothing really all that special about it and lots of people do it and no one is saying it's rare. On the contrary, we're saying the exact opposite, it's common enough that it's perfectly doable. That is the point of this entire discussion - people of meager means have the opportunity to obtain wealth IF they make more good decisions than bad decisions and this is evidenced by the fact that a significant number of people manage to do it. This path starts for most with the realization that wealth is in large part first and foremost a choice that you then have to pursue with tenacity and hard work.
 
I was fortunate enough to start in my late 20s. I was lucky to work with some cranky old dudes at the time that sort of guided me along the way and prompted me to do at least 10%. This was back when you dialed into your 401k over a land line and made changes via an automated phone system.

I'm 51 now and now I'm the cranky old B. I've put anywhere from 10-13% into my 401 the whole time. I'm paid hourly, so 13% of a heavy overtime check is a nice chunk of change being put in there. I've had lots of OT for nearly 25yrs. I'm also blessed to have a traditional pension that grows based on my earnings. It will never be massive, but hopefully will cover a medical plan and some bills when the time comes. My bride's next husband better be grateful.
 
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