Thinner basestocks aren't available in Oz

[Shannow]

I have seen a few threads discussing the xW-40 and xW-50 oils in Oz as a result of what's only available in the area.

In spite of nearly all the lubricant base-stocks being imported anyway.

Catalogue arrived yesterday, and Valvoline NextGen has hit Oz.

in 15w40 for petrol, and 15w40 for diesel.

There goes the base-stock availability argument.

 

[bullwinkle]

Interesting-since there's no 15W40 available in NextGen in the USA.

 

[A_Harman]

I have seen cases in the past where Valvoline markets some oils in Australia that they don't market here.

 

[cmorr]

@Shannow, what do you think the theory is behind this. Would these products not sell (considered by people to be too light or too expensive)? Have you canted the manufacturers and asked ?

 

[dparm]

You might need to turn to boutique stuff like Motul.

 

[Leo]

30wts have only become more illustrious in the past few years. You won't find a 20wt anywhere unfortunately unless you order boutique.

 

[mechtech2]

OK Shannow, what are your speculations why?
I don't think the climate is extreme in most regions there.

 

[Shannow]

Any time CAFE is mentioned in the "why does Oz and Europe have thicker oils", people who live under CAFE leap in and state that it's either old ideas, or no access to base-stocks, and nothing whatsoever to do with CAFE driving thinner oils.

Here, a new base-stock is being introduced, which has to be imported, and they are doing it at 15w40...

which indicates that it's intentional, and the base-stocks for the U.S. are CAFE influenced.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Any time CAFE is mentioned in the "why does Oz and Europe have thicker oils", people who live under CAFE leap in and state that it's either old ideas, or no access to base-stocks, and nothing whatsoever to do with CAFE driving thinner oils.

Here, a new base-stock is being introduced, which has to be imported, and they are doing it at 15w40...

which indicates that it's intentional, and the base-stocks for the U.S. are CAFE influenced.


Maybe.
Or it may just indicate that neither the oil blenders not the car manufacturers wish to expend the time and effort required to introduce lighter grades to a remote nation the population of which barely doubles my American state, and Ohio is not that large a state.
CAFE only?
Well, we have real weather where I live, and all of our current cars have seen temperature extremes between -20F and 100F+. A 15w40 wouldn't work too well at below zero Farenheit temperatures.
Engine life?
Countless Fords have reached 200K+ on any old 5W-20, as have countless Hondas.
If the Ozians want to use 20W-70, or if they consider 15w40 a light grade, so be it.
We have found that lighter grades work just fine, and it ain't just CAFE.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Maybe.
Or it may just indicate that neither the oil blenders not the car manufacturers wish to expend the time and effort required to introduce lighter grades to a remote nation the population of which barely doubles my American state, and Ohio is not that large a state.


Nope, you've got to do better with that argument...they have to ship the oil to Alice Springs anyway, and they've got to import ALL of the basestocks, so our "remoteness" means nothing.

To boot, nearly all new cars spec something xw-30

As to the size of the populous, it makes even less sense to have a special oil for Oz market...especially this one.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
We have found that lighter grades work just fine, and it ain't just CAFE.


Which was the chicken, and which was the egg in the exploration of thin oils ?

If CAFE can mandate that the manufacturer has to ensure that the oil specced is used, they are pretty much driving the pointy end of the issue.

 

[fdcg27]

They don't have a special oil for the Oz market.
They merely give the market what it wants at a premium price.
What do you pay for an ordinary shelf dino 15w40?
You can probably buy M1 0W-40 here for what you pay for a very ordinary 15w40 dino there.
The best argument I can give you is that oils much thinner than those typically used in Australia have been used here for years, and engine life has not suffered for it.
I have a '97 Accord 2.2 that has been run on 5 or 10w30 for its now 204K miles, and it neither leaks nor usually consumes oil, and it has seen very hot days as well as very cold mornings over its fifteen years of use.
Real winters are a fact for much of this country, and really thick oils just won't cut it in a northern winter.
Really hot summers are a reality here too, and thinner grades seem to do just fine during them.
Australians seem to prefer thicker grades, and blenders are inclined to give the market what it will pay for.

 

[fdcg27]

Thinner oils were used in this country long before CAFE.
I would have to do a whole lot of digging to demonstrate this to you, but oils heavier that thirty grades were rarely required at any time after WW II in passenger car applications.
The thickest oil required in any application was probably a forty grade.
Some Euros called for 20W-50 as late as the 'nineties, but they are an exception, and that grade is a perversion that existed only because of the original Mini.
Australia has had a history of prefering thicker grades.
I'm not sure why that is the case, but it isn't a matter of engine life.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Thinner oils were used in this country long before CAFE.
I would have to do a whole lot of digging to demonstrate this to you, but oils heavier that thirty grades were rarely required at any time after WW II in passenger car applications.


You're quite right. A lot of the vehicles "allowed" a heavier grade, up to 20w-50, using those temperature charts, but the 30 grades were usually the ones recommended. Heck, my dad was as old school of a mechanic as you can get (he started in the early 1950s), and I never once saw him with a bottle of 10w-40 or 20w-50 in his hands, and that includes when servicing farm equipment, power equipment, and vehicles from the 1940s and 1950s. He used 15w40 only for diesels, and 10w30 or 5w30 for everything else. He stayed away from straight weights, too, like the plague. He flipped when I suggested a 10w30 HDEO once for a gasser, since the HDEOs are on the heavier side of the spectrum. When I put approved SAE 30 instead of a multigrade in a lawn tractor, I almost got my backside tanned, until I showed him the manual, and he very grudgingly accepted that.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Shannow - An interesting issue

Most of our product is now ex Asia - Singapore is the major source, but you know that.

Some lubes as you are aware have their origins elsewhere. Most blending is also done off-shore

Speaking a little from the New Zealand side, viscosties available there in the 1950s were 20W-30, 30W-40 and the monogrades 20, 30, 40 of course, and 10w30 from around 1955.

The Duckhams release in 1959-60 of a 20W-50 (quickly followed by Castrol) especially for the Austin 850-Morris Mini added another dimension

In these years side valve US engines were fed 20w-20 or 30. Later 10w30. For many years 10w30 was king! Later anything that used oil was fed 20W-50!

This was not dissimilar to Scandinavia and England in these years up until 1970s

VW used 20W-20 or 30 and so did many other German cars - some specified HD lubricants such as DS/MS

In Oz we have been able to get lower viscosity products for around 20 years or so. By this I mean 0w30 etc. A fine range of viscosities is available from Castrol in OZ

We are a very sophisticated automotive environment and have been for many decades! In fact OZ was once the test-bed environment for new prototype vehicles (cars and heavy trucks) out of Europe and Asia. In-house test bed testing has changed that situation significantly

In recent years our own Auto makers have hit deep sand and are sinking. So, like NZ from about the mid 1970s were have become Asianised. Like it or not we are a part of Asia.

Much of our lubricant use and availability is based on that!

As for remoteness, Perth is the remotest City on our Planet!

 

[Shannow]

Doug, I know from talking to my Dad, and workigng next to my Grandad as a 4y.o. that they has 20s, 30s, 20W, and rarely 40s., which got changed around depending on season etc.

Then 20W-50 is one size fits all for decades.

Shell in the 80s had "Super SF" 20W-40, breaking the trend, then introduced Grey bottle XMO 15w30, which had a rep as an engine wrecker, apparently (was working in a Shell Garge at the time) due it it having a higher level of oil consumption than the average Aussie could deal with...Holden later had their issues with the 30s and oil consumption in the V-6 Commodore, and put in bigger sumps and longer dipsticks.

Then in the late 80s, STP and Penrite started the "thicker is better" 25W-60s, 25W-70s, 30W-70s, and even 40W (they made some of their rating up)...and I don't know why, but the majors started playing that game for protection "in the Aussie heat".

Personally, I don't see anything xW-50 in my future, and am happy with 5w30 in my L67, even 'though Holden in 1997 said 20W-50, and 15w40 in the cold.

However, I've heard the argument a number of times that Oz is thicker as there aren't thinner basestocks here.

Which made the NextGen, only available in 15w40, a grade not made in it's home market, a little interesting.

 

[Silk]

In the early '70's the bulk tanks in our NZ workshop were 10-30 and 10-40...and cars were on 1,000 mile oil changes. By the '80's until now it's been 15-40 - go into any NZ workshop and they may only have one bulk oil tank, and it will be full of a 15-40 HDEO, and it goes in everything. Engine failure from wear is pretty rare.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Shannow - An interesting issue

.......... but you know that. ............

As for remoteness, Perth is the remotest City on our Planet!


Dougie

I would not agree with that, Brisbane is not any closer.

 

[A_Harman]

40W? How cold does it get in an Australian winter? The API says that a 10W-XX is good down to 0F, and a 20W-XX is good down to 32F. Does that mean that a 30W shouldn't be used below 64F and a 40W shouldn't be used below 96F? (OK, I know I'm being facetious, but what is the lowest temperature at which a 40W could be used?)

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

Nope, you've got to do better with that argument...they have to ship the oil to Alice Springs anyway, and they've got to import ALL of the basestocks, so our "remoteness" means nothing.

To boot, nearly all new cars spec something xw-30

As to the size of the populous, it makes even less sense to have a special oil for Oz market...especially this one.


But where do they import from? Indonesia or America? If they are imported cheaper from places where they can easily make Xw40 rather than Xw20, the auto industry will likely keep the standard at Xw40.

The same reason why we don't typically use 0w30 or 0w40 in the US but 5w30 or 5w20, because that's what's cheaper here and the auto industry (and government, and oil companies) have decided on that.