Thicker oil vs thin oil....again!

[wolf_06]

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/518/motor-oils

This link is very popular here. They claim thicker oil improve compression, horsepower and long term protection, better than any w20.

If my car is spec for 5w20, is 5w30 gonna give me better performance, protection? 5w30 is better for viscosity than 10w30 or some 5w20 conventional.
Are they talking about the viscosity index? its getting confusing reading through that article.

Clarification please!

 

[Loobed]

Get four used oil analysis and find out which is better. Get 2 used oil analysis with 5w-20 oil; one in the summer and one in the winter. Then get 2 used oil analysis with 5w30; one in the summer and one in the winter.

 

[Hallmark]

Note the 2003 date of the article.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

AMsoil ATM 10w30 with a block heater. Prob best oil for 99% of gasoline fueled vehicles.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: Loobed


Get four used oil analysis and find out which is better. Get 2 used oil analysis with 5w-20 oil; one in the summer and one in the winter. Then get 2 used oil analysis with 5w30; one in the summer and one in the winter. See which oil works better.

used oil analysis dont evidence catastrophic wear, rather normal and chemical wear. Many oils with enhanced ZdP may report higher wear as they show the Fe, Ni, Cr and Al sloghed off in "readable particle size" instead of the hard fretting and scoring flotsam that dont read on a used oil analysis and usually end up in the filter. used oil analysis without filter washdown and particle count is worthless as a wear indicator esp in competition vehicles.

 

[salv]

despite what the oil cap says, a hyundai will run great on a 5w30 in any climate.

 

[tribocessive]

2012 hyundai elantra touring operating conditions mega, hard miles, no qualms about using 0W20; question is defy hard on emmission systems?

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: tribocessive
2012 hyundai elantra touring operating conditions mega, hard miles, no qualms about using 0W20; question is defy hard on emmission systems?

When you say defy do you mean QS Defy? Thats a high mileage oil and you have a brand new car. Use a regular oil. The answer would be "harder" than a regular oil, higher levels of zzdp (supposedly, no hard evidence)

 

[wolf_06]

Originally Posted By: tribocessive
2012 hyundai elantra touring operating conditions mega, hard miles, no qualms about using 0W20; question is defy hard on emmission systems?
can you explain more?

 

[Hokiefyd]

I think tribocessive is asking if Quaker State Defy is hard on emissions systems, because it contains more ZDP and is not API certified.

 

[mechtech2]

"The purpose of this article is to challenge conventional wisdom"
That is bias and isogesis.
It should read:
"The purpose of this article is to determine X"

The article is not fact based, except where it repeats the tested advantages of thinner oils.
An example of 260 deg F oil is given, but that is not happening in our normal street cars.

 

[[RT] ProjUltraZ]

That's interesting but it's only food for thought, no evidence.

but i agree with the premise

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I think tribocessive is asking if Quaker State Defy is hard on emissions systems, because it contains more ZDP and is not API certified.

Looks like all the hoopla is over 200ppm more of zzdp...
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...nt=5&page=4

 

[Oregoonian]

Originally Posted By: wolf_06
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/518/motor-oils

This link is very popular here. They claim thicker oil improve compression, horsepower and long term protection, better than any w20.

If my car is spec for 5w20, is 5w30 gonna give me better performance, protection? 5w30 is better for viscosity than 10w30 or some 5w20 conventional.
Are they talking about the viscosity index? its getting confusing reading through that article.

Clarification please!


First....this is a 9 year old article.

Second....from what I've read....most 5w30's shear down to 5w20....within a couple of thousand miles....and oils are much superior to those back then.

Lastly.....if your vehicles spec for 5w20 or 0w20...keep using it and sleep well. Its been working very well for many years.....and for thousands upon thousands of vehicles.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
"The purpose of this article is to challenge conventional wisdom"
That is bias and isogesis.
It should read:
"The purpose of this article is to determine X"

The article is not fact based, except where it repeats the tested advantages of thinner oils.
An example of 260 deg F oil is given, but that is not happening in our normal street cars.

I agree.
The article is 9 years old when 20wt oils were just becoming popular. No mention is made of 0W-XX oils.
It's the personal bias of who ever wrote the article with little scientific evidence to support his claim.
As a result the article is a piece of useless fluff.

 

[tribocessive]

qsdefy is not sn rated- just asking- i have unusual operating conditions- 8k miles per month-70% highway/30% city w/lots of idling- qsdefy 5w20 interests me-and Pennzoil Platinum 0w20-and Mobil 1 0w20-will hold off on qsdefy- next oil change will be with eneos sustina 0w20- a very light oil- will try to get hths numbers from dyson or somebody in 6 weeks at 12k miles.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Loobed


Get four used oil analysis and find out which is better. Get 2 used oil analysis with 5w-20 oil; one in the summer and one in the winter. Then get 2 used oil analysis with 5w30; one in the summer and one in the winter. See which oil works better.

used oil analysis dont evidence catastrophic wear, rather normal and chemical wear. Many oils with enhanced ZdP may report higher wear as they show the Fe, Ni, Cr and Al sloghed off in "readable particle size" instead of the hard fretting and scoring flotsam that dont read on a used oil analysis and usually end up in the filter. used oil analysis without filter washdown and particle count is worthless as a wear indicator esp in competition vehicles.


I agree. The problem as I see it is a lot of people put a lot of faith in a used oil analysis report, and that's wrong. A used oil analysis is a tool to determine if oil is capable of staying in the sump longer, if there is a spike in some wear metal. It can also indicate if excess fuel or coolant is in the oil. Outside of that there isn't much more they can do. Lets not forget how many mistakes they make with them, rendering many of them useless.

 

[UNC151]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
It's the personal bias of who ever wrote the article with little scientific evidence to support his claim.
As a result the article is a piece of useless fluff.

x2...there are a few articles like this floating around with no reference independent 3rd party information to substantiate the "claims".

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Loobed


Get four used oil analysis and find out which is better. Get 2 used oil analysis with 5w-20 oil; one in the summer and one in the winter. Then get 2 used oil analysis with 5w30; one in the summer and one in the winter. See which oil works better.

used oil analysis dont evidence catastrophic wear, rather normal and chemical wear. Many oils with enhanced ZdP may report higher wear as they show the Fe, Ni, Cr and Al sloghed off in "readable particle size" instead of the hard fretting and scoring flotsam that dont read on a used oil analysis and usually end up in the filter. used oil analysis without filter washdown and particle count is worthless as a wear indicator esp in competition vehicles.


I agree. The problem as I see it is a lot of people put a lot of faith in a used oil analysis report, and that's wrong. A used oil analysis is a tool to determine if oil is capable of staying in the sump longer, if there is a spike in some wear metal. It can also indicate if excess fuel or coolant is in the oil. Outside of that there isn't much more they can do. Lets not forget how many mistakes they make with them, rendering many of them useless.

I disagree a used oil analysis can revel more than just the proper OCI and coolant and fuel intrusion. But to do so it takes a trained eye and often knowledge of the engine history.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Loobed


Get four used oil analysis and find out which is better. Get 2 used oil analysis with 5w-20 oil; one in the summer and one in the winter. Then get 2 used oil analysis with 5w30; one in the summer and one in the winter. See which oil works better.

used oil analysis dont evidence catastrophic wear, rather normal and chemical wear. Many oils with enhanced ZdP may report higher wear as they show the Fe, Ni, Cr and Al sloghed off in "readable particle size" instead of the hard fretting and scoring flotsam that dont read on a used oil analysis and usually end up in the filter. used oil analysis without filter washdown and particle count is worthless as a wear indicator esp in competition vehicles.


I agree. The problem as I see it is a lot of people put a lot of faith in a used oil analysis report, and that's wrong. A used oil analysis is a tool to determine if oil is capable of staying in the sump longer, if there is a spike in some wear metal. It can also indicate if excess fuel or coolant is in the oil. Outside of that there isn't much more they can do. Lets not forget how many mistakes they make with them, rendering many of them useless.

I disagree a used oil analysis can revel more than just the proper OCI and coolant and fuel intrusion. But to do so it takes a trained eye and often knowledge of the engine history.


I won't argue with you, people make a living off of doing used oil analysis reports and reading them. They can be useful too. A used oil analysis isn't going to determine engine wear or condition. It might help alert someone to a problem, and they have. OTOH we've had members post over the years having good used oil analysis reports and spun bearings, wrecking engines. My biggest concern is their accuracy, tons of them are wrong, which doesn't leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling.