The Valve Experiment

V

VersysVsWhat

Joined
May 28, 2025
Messages
183
Awhile back I watched a Motor Oil Geek video talking about how some lubricity in a fuel helped to lessen wear. Got me thinking since I have a container of Amsoil Saber hanging around that I use for 2 stroke stuff like a chain saw and leaf blower (I've been pretty impressed by the stuff). Would using the highest quality oils (like HPL, Renewable Lubricants, etc) the majority of time, in combo with a little Amsoil Saber+a little gumout+top tier fuel have any positive effects on slowing down valve clearance migration/alignment? Generally the combo should (?) help the motor to run a bit cooler, and expanding contracting cycles seem to affect valve movement.

Since my bike is pretty new, it's a great one to experiment with. The Saber is being mixed no more than 300 to 1 ratio and no less than 600 to 1. Hopefully just enough to add a little lubricity. I haven't noticed any negative effects from this so far. However, one thing I have wondered, would it be negative in the sense of not allowing the valves to seal properly/fully?

I have another 6k miles or so to go before I need to check valve clearance (which I'm somewhat dreading as it is not easy to do on this bike. Not the worst bike out there for this, but definitely not one of the easier ones either).

Anyways, I will update when that comes around with the results.
 
It does have a CAT, but I don't see how at such low concentrations that would negatively affect it? Yeah, it definitely would if I was running it in typical 2 stroke ratios like 32 to 1 or even 100 to 1. But 300 to 1 to 600 to 1 ratios (btw, those are approximations, more acurately it would be 320 to 1 and 640 to 1. I fill up a 5 gallon gas can with 1 to 2 ounces of the Saber)?

I don't have access to other chemistry outside of oil to add lubricity to the fuel. Speed Jr. was pretty adamant that some lubricity in the fuel noticeably reduced wear both short and long term.
 
On a side note, another idea I am toying with is adding heat pipes to areas of the engine near the fins (again, to help it run cooler).

(Heat pipes are pretty amazing at transferring/conducting heat away from the heat source. Not hard to make. These would be modified, flattened copper tubes, with silicon carbide placed inside along with the wicking material and distilled water-all under vacuum).
 
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VersysVsWhat said:
I haven't heard of this; could you tell me a little more or direct me to a thread?
Click to expand...
You can use the search engine at the upper right corner of this page. Type TC-W3 and a ton of links will come up. Such as this:

L

Thread 'Tc-w3 in gas engine'

Does tcw3 at 1oz to every 5gal of gas delay ignition on a gas engine?

and this:

W

Post in thread '2 cycle oil.. what a difference!'

I have used the cheapest TC-W3 oil I can find in everything [air and water cooled] for 30 years. Engines are spotless inside and never any fuel related problems.

There are BITOG posters who swear by the benefits of TC-W3 in their 4-stroke engines and there are others, not so much.
 
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Dang, it's like a whole new world with this info, and here I thought I was being clever and original. :rolleyes:

From what I've read so far, it sounds like Amsoil Dominator (or some other high quality equivalent) would be better than the Saber, since the Saber was developed more for higher heat, air cooled engines. *Edit-wrong again, apparently the ones talked about in these threads are newer no ash 2 stroke oils.

I'm out of the loop with 2 stroke oils tbh. It's been quite awhile since I have researched them. Anyone know high quality alternatives that are easier to obtain than Amsoil?
 
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VersysVsWhat said:
Awhile back I watched a Motor Oil Geek video talking about how some lubricity in a fuel helped to lessen wear. Got me thinking since I have a container of Amsoil Saber hanging around that I use for 2 stroke stuff like a chain saw and leaf blower (I've been pretty impressed by the stuff). Would using the highest quality oils (like HPL, Renewable Lubricants, etc) the majority of time, in combo with a little Amsoil Saber+a little gumout+top tier fuel have any positive effects on slowing down valve clearance migration/alignment? Generally the combo should (?) help the motor to run a bit cooler, and expanding contracting cycles seem to affect valve movement.

Since my bike is pretty new, it's a great one to experiment with. The Saber is being mixed no more than 300 to 1 ratio and no less than 600 to 1. Hopefully just enough to add a little lubricity. I haven't noticed any negative effects from this so far. However, one thing I have wondered, would it be negative in the sense of not allowing the valves to seal properly/fully?

I have another 6k miles or so to go before I need to check valve clearance (which I'm somewhat dreading as it is not easy to do on this bike. Not the worst bike out there for this, but definitely not one of the easier ones either).

Anyways, I will update when that comes around with the results.
Click to expand...

It won't harm, but do you have a baseline to compare your results with?
 
Are there any gasoline manufacturers adding oil to their fuels? Seems if there were measurable benefits they’d be lobbying EPA to make it legal so they could charge more for gasoline. IMO, if your fuel needs oil in it to work well, you should buy better fuel.
 
berniedd said:
Pretty much the same as what others on BITOG do with 1 ounce TCW3 to 5 gallons gasoline (1:630 mix).
Click to expand...

I've run TCW3 in my bike for 18 years but it has no cat to worry about. Besides a bit of added lubricity it keeps the combustion chambers clean. I've never been inclined to try it on any engine with a cat and anyway modern engines are much more accurately fuelled.
 
VersysVsWhat said:
On a side note, another idea I am toying with is adding heat pipes to areas of the engine near the fins (again, to help it run cooler).

(Heat pipes are pretty amazing at transferring/conducting heat away from the heat source. Not hard to make. These would be modified, flattened copper tubes, with silicon carbide placed inside along with the wicking material and distilled water-all under vacuum).
Click to expand...
Isn't the Versys a liquid cooled engine?
 
Oil in gasoline lowers the octane. Lower octaine means it is easier to have knock and LSPI, especially in an air-cooled engine that runs hot. Both ^ of those can damage the engine and LSPI can actually blast a hole through piston(s).

So, if your going to use 2 cycle oil in a 4 cycle engine, you want to also be using a higher than normal octane fuel, so when the oil reduces the octaind it's still within safe range.
 
VersysVsWhat said:
I haven't heard of this; could you tell me a little more or direct me to a thread?
Click to expand...
I add 1oz of TCW-3 2 cycle marine oil to my 5 gal gas cans whenever I fill them at the gas station, along with a shot of Marine Stabil 360 fuel stabilizer. I've been using this mix year round for my lawn mower and generators for years. I also use it in my motorcycles when I winterize them in the fall or when I want to cycle through the "old" gas and fill the cans with fresh gas.
 
Jetronic said:
It won't harm, but do you have a baseline to compare your results with?
Click to expand...
Not for this individual bike, but from reading the forums for these bikes, it's a pretty universal/common experience that these bikes' valves are either at the very edge of minimum to very slightly under clearance for the first valve check (a lot of people recommend putting them at the max clearance, because they almost always tighten up).

If when checked, and they are not right at that edge or over, it becomes more probably indicative that the combo is doing something beneficial. Not scientific, I know, but I'm a pragmatist that is highly aware of, "do not perfect become the enemy of good (enough)".

Besides, there are other potential benefits besides just valves. In general, wear should be decreased. Some say it keeps it cleaner.
 
SubieRubyRoo said:
Are there any gasoline manufacturers adding oil to their fuels? Seems if there were measurable benefits they’d be lobbying EPA to make it legal so they could charge more for gasoline. IMO, if your fuel needs oil in it to work well, you should buy better fuel.
Click to expand...
Fair question. However, we know that corporations often do just the bare minimum unless there are major benefits and/or potential profit involved. And on the EPA side of things, since this could technically increase pollution a little, it would be a bit of a crap show as far as regulations.

We do know that in some top tier fuels, there are some lubricity enhancers added as per Lake Speed Jr. (he specifically focused on Shell's Nitro formulation). Are they in all top tier fuels? Not known.
 
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