The oil didnt matter....cold start rattle back again on Ecoboost engine!

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by PowerSurge
The piston slap in the GM engines did cause long term problems. Primarily high oil consumption problems from ‘99 to ‘03. Not to mention, GM has had a ton of problems with their smaller engines that have variable cam and valve timing. The only reason GM waited so long to go to that setup in the trucks was they don't sell as many as Ford and they didn't take as big of a hit to their CAFE numbers.

Sorry you're going through this Navi. It sucks to pay a ton of money for something like this and deal with problems.


Where did you hear that the piston slap caused oil usage? I've seen oil usage in lots of them but I was under the impression that it was from buildup in the rings similar to Toyota engines with oil consumption or old Saturn's. Reinforcing my thoughts on that my friend has an 01 with loud piston slap cold and it uses no oil. I have a 5.3 from a retired work truck that used 2-3 qts per oil change yet it had zero piston slap. My current work truck used a qt and a half between oil changes and it's quiet.

The noise from those doesn't seem to have anything to do with oil consumption in my experiences. Yours could be different.

 

[tiger862]

That sounds like a tensioner bled down but picks up the oil quickly. I would run recommended oil since Ford gave you an extended warranty as in don't give them an out on warranty. Factory filter as well. Good luck

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by 4WD
Originally Posted by PimTac
YouTube is not a verifiable source.


You might just find MACT comparing iron PPM on two VOA's …
and highest overall PPM of everything all in will get the chicken dinner !



Was that one of those Scotty Kilmer videos?

 

[DaleRider]

Originally Posted by PowerSurge
The piston slap in the GM engines did cause long term problems. Primarily high oil consumption problems from ‘99 to ‘03. Not to mention, GM has had a ton of problems with their smaller engines that have variable cam and valve timing. The only reason GM waited so long to go to that setup in the trucks was they don't sell as many as Ford and they didn't take as big of a hit to their CAFE numbers.

Sorry you're going through this Navi. It sucks to pay a ton of money for something like this and deal with problems.



Just an FYI.....GM and Ford routinely switch places as sales leader of pickups. For instance, in 2013, Ford outsold GM in pickups by ~100k. But in 2014, the Ford edge was only just over 12k, and in 2015 GM outsold Ford by ~40k units. This mirrors past history: 2003, Ford outsold GM by ~35k units; 2004 Ford outsold GM by ~45k units; 2005 GM outsold Ford by 34k units; 2006 GM outsold Ford by 50k units; 2007 GM outsold Ford by over 135k units; 2008 GM outsold Ford by 118k units; and the trend continues to this day.....they switch for a few years, over and over.

And I really have yet to hear of complaints about rampant oil consumption in any GM truck of any year, my '03 Silverado with the 5.3 in it. 190k on the clock and it never has had an appetite for oil.....well, except for the one time I put Mobil 1 AFE 0w30 in it. The engine did drink about 2/3 of a quart over 6k miles. But changed to Valvoline syn. 5w30 and the consumption went away and has not returned despite changing brands over and over...currently RGT 5W30 in it. Neighbor across the street has an '04 with over 350k miles on it and it doesn't drink oil. On the other hand, another neighbor has an '02 F150 that has spit spark plugs with abandon, overheats, front end squeaks like a nest of mice......there are good trucks and bad trucks...and in the end, it mostly comes down to PM.

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by 4WD
Originally Posted by PimTac
YouTube is not a verifiable source.


You might just find MACT comparing iron PPM on two VOA's …
and highest overall PPM of everything all in will get the chicken dinner !



Was that one of those Scotty Kilmer videos?


here is one random selection

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sqi_rWUWB7s

 

[sopususer]

Originally Posted by PowerSurge
The piston slap in the GM engines did cause long term problems. Primarily high oil consumption problems from ‘99 to ‘03. Not to mention, GM has had a ton of problems with their smaller engines that have variable cam and valve timing. The only reason GM waited so long to go to that setup in the trucks was they don't sell as many as Ford and they didn't take as big of a hit to their CAFE numbers.



Never heard of GM having oil widespread oil consumption issues on the early LS engines. After the 07+ AFM engines came online there were definitely issues. As far as 1/2 ton sales which include the ecoboost and 4.8/5.3/6.2 GM engines the last year I could find data for (2017) indicates that GM actually sells more 1/2 tons:

Remember sales are often posted as F-series vs Silverado/Sierra, but these numbers include the HD trucks which Ford does indeed dominate sales.

 

[4WD]

On our small town lot … probably 50% more HD series for sale vs the F150

 

[Spktyr]

So has anyone tried a pre-oiler on these engines as a method to stave off this potential/possible VCT oil starvation problem? Down here in Texas, I've seen a number of friends and acquaintances use one on engines (either individual built examples or a specific engine model) that were known to have cold start oil flow issues and it seemed to solve them. Yeah, it's slightly annoying to wait for the pre-oiler to bring up oil pressure prior to starting, but it's only a slight inconvenience.

 

[4WD]

Or try one change of high polarity oil like a real ester based lube.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Miller88
Can't you just hold the gas pedal to the floor to get it into clear flood mode and crank it for a second then let up and have it start? It will circulate oil before it starts.




Does this still apply with today's injection systems? I haven't done that since my last carbureted vehicle.


It will turn off the fuel so it will crank without firing and get oil pressure first. You should not have to do this but technically he is correct.

I had to clear flood my carbureted 305 occasionally after a hot soak in below freezing weather's, until I replaced the worn out choke thermostat. Not because it's carbureted, but because it had a failed 36 year old part.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by PowerSurge
Originally Posted by 4WD
That's a tiny number in my inner circle alone. If you think there has been a chronic problem with oil consumption … bring a real database
I don't doubt Toyota quality … but as you bashed while giving lectures on bashing and hate … there are certainly some Japanese engines known to consume oil … surely hear about them on this site …
When you type "laugh at" … guess you are looking down on us common folk. We'll be OK.


You can defend them all you want. I always tell people it's your money. Buy what you want.


People are defending then because they're awesome trucks and most of them last a long time. It sounds like you don't actually know a lot about them other than the one you had that had both piston slap and oil consumption. They are a separate problem.

 

[aquariuscsm]

What oil are you using right now? Have you tried a high moly 10W30 oil like Pz or Qs in dino form? A long time well respected member here once said that dino oils are more polar that synths.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv


It will turn off the fuel so it will crank without firing and get oil pressure first. You should not have to do this but technically he is correct.


It's no different than just starting the engine. You are still using physically turning the engine to create oil pressure. Whether that is done with a starter motor or the engine itself actually running makes no real difference.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Miller88
Can't you just hold the gas pedal to the floor to get it into clear flood mode and crank it for a second then let up and have it start? It will circulate oil before it starts.




Does this still apply with today's injection systems? I haven't done that since my last carbureted vehicle.


It will turn off the fuel so it will crank without firing and get oil pressure first. You should not have to do this but technically he is correct.

I had to clear flood my carbureted 305 occasionally after a hot soak in below freezing weather's, until I replaced the worn out choke thermostat. Not because it's carbureted, but because it had a failed 36 year old part.




I had to do this with my carburetor run vehicles but since fuel injection I haven't touched the gas pedal to start not even once.

Back in the 70's my Scout had a real POS Holley that the float kept sinking. They had switched to the new at that time space age plastic. I would get maybe 18-34 months out of a float. That engine flooded easily.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv


It will turn off the fuel so it will crank without firing and get oil pressure first. You should not have to do this but technically he is correct.


It's no different than just starting the engine. You are still using physically turning the engine to create oil pressure. Whether that is done with a starter motor or the engine itself actually running makes no real difference.


Well the starter turning it over is going to put less stress on everything, even the timing chain because it's turning slower, so I disagree with you on that. Have you never seen people starting an engine that's been sitting for years, cranking it to get oil pressure before starting?

However, I would never go to this extent to try to solve this problem. I don't even use a block heater on my 36 year old carbureted engine, I just start it and try to wait for the piston slap to stop before I drive away in really cold weather.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Miller88
Can't you just hold the gas pedal to the floor to get it into clear flood mode and crank it for a second then let up and have it start? It will circulate oil before it starts.




Does this still apply with today's injection systems? I haven't done that since my last carbureted vehicle.


It will turn off the fuel so it will crank without firing and get oil pressure first. You should not have to do this but technically he is correct.

I had to clear flood my carbureted 305 occasionally after a hot soak in below freezing weather's, until I replaced the worn out choke thermostat. Not because it's carbureted, but because it had a failed 36 year old part.




I had to do this with my carburetor run vehicles but since fuel injection I haven't touched the gas pedal to start not even once.

Back in the 70's my Scout had a real POS Holley that the float kept sinking. They had switched to the new at that time space age plastic. I would get maybe 18-34 months out of a float. That engine flooded easily.


I've never had a float sink in my quadrajets over the past 20 years, but I've had to adjust them to solve a fuel starvation problem. With the choke set they start fine every time. Yes you have to crack the throttle open if it's cooled off partially but it starts faster than most fuel injected cars so I won't complain.

My dad had a 78 scout, he never mentioned any float issues but I don't think he had it long enough to have that problem. He sold it after a couple of years.

 

[PimTac]

Mine was a 79 with the 304. Well built and gutsy but the fuel economy was dreadful. I had it for a few years. That was near the end of International Harvester building consumer vehicles.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv


It will turn off the fuel so it will crank without firing and get oil pressure first. You should not have to do this but technically he is correct.


It's no different than just starting the engine. You are still using physically turning the engine to create oil pressure. Whether that is done with a starter motor or the engine itself actually running makes no real difference.


Well the starter turning it over is going to put less stress on everything, even the timing chain because it's turning slower, so I disagree with you on that. Have you never seen people starting an engine that's been sitting for years, cranking it to get oil pressure before starting?

However, I would never go to this extent to try to solve this problem. I don't even use a block heater on my 36 year old carbureted engine, I just start it and try to wait for the piston slap to stop before I drive away in really cold weather.



The starter turns it at a faster speed than what it idles at. Just because everyone does it doesn't mean it is correct. On a new engine you have assembly lube in place so typically it is fine. The best method is to either turn the oil pump alone with a drill but typically on modern engines this is not really possible, so in that case a pneumatic pressurized oil feed system is ideal. Air compressor and oil extractor is all you need.

 

[caprice_2nv]

I'm sure that you're aware that the main reason for cranking to build oil pressure is so that there is oil pressure before the stresses of combustion happen...Not only that, the idle speed may be slower than cranking speed but cranking should bring the speed up much slower and more gentle than an engine firing up and then dropping back down to idle. Do you honestly think that cranking the engine to build oil pressure is going to stress the engine so much that you need to remove the distributor and run the oil pump first? If the engine has been sitting for 10+ years I think it is probably a good idea but the 350 Olds in my Cutlass appeared to have been sitting for at least 10 years and all we did was crank it to get oil pressure. 12 years later and 100k miles later no issues.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Do you honestly think that cranking the engine to build oil pressure is going to stress the engine so much that you need to remove the distributor and run the oil pump first?



No, I don't. My whole point all along is to just start the engine.