The new Chevy Malibu!
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I agree that the MAXX has a very ugly rear end but I do like the front end and stance of the Malibu sedan.quote:
Originally posted by mnztr:
Well I don't drive a Mazda 6, but you know, they are made in the USA in case your car judgement is blinded by patriotism. I'd say one would have to be pretty much blind to say the Malibu Maxx is as pretty as the Mazda 6.....you type pretty good for a blind man!!!
Take Mazda's sports coop the RX-8 and Chevy's(now discontinued) Camaro. Both look great but the Camaro IMHO looks meaner and more aggresive. The RX-8 Is boxier and has sharper lines, the Camaro has very smooth and fluid lines. It's all in the eye of the beholder that is untill you get into power numbers and then the Camaro would eat the RX8 for lunch!
On a straight road. And... you don't have to wear a mullet if you drive a Mazda.quote:
Originally posted by Chris B.:
It's all in the eye of the beholder that is untill you get into power numbers and then the Camaro would eat the RX8 for lunch!
It depends on where you drive. I drive on real world twisty roads, not skid pads, not nice smooth road courses and power is not nearly as important on a real world twisty road.quote:
Originally posted by Chris B.:
So where the RX8 might have a very small advantage in handling a very small suspention mod will make the Camaro equal on handeling. Stock for stock the Camaro will be very close to the RX8 and where it falls behind it will easly make up for in power/speed. Sorry but the Camaro is the better race/sports car!
A Camaro is wretched on a less than smooth twisty road. Most of the racer boy mods that generate better skid pad numbers will make it even worse.
Well, sadly, GM still seems to have left uncorrected several of the problems that plagued the original 2.8L, which of course, is the platform from which came the 3.1, 3.4, and now 3.5L 60 degree sixes. I don't KNOW that the 3.5L will have problems, and I hope for those who buy it that it does not, but with history as a teacher, if I were betting on this, I'd have to bet against the future long-term health of the 3.5.
Not exactly.quote:
Originally posted by XS650:
On a straight road. And... you don't have to wear a mullet if you drive a Mazda.quote:
Originally posted by Chris B.:
It's all in the eye of the beholder that is untill you get into power numbers and then the Camaro would eat the RX8 for lunch!
Maxda RX8:
Horespower @ Fly wheel-250 @ 8,500 RPM
Torque @ Fly wheel-159 @ 5,500 rpm
Measured wheel torque-132 @ 5,500 rpm
Measured wheel HP N/A
Latreal grip (200 ft skid pad) 0.90 g (not bad)
4th gen Camaro:
Horespower @fly wheel-325 @ 5,200 rpm
Torque @fly wheel-350 @ 4,00rpm
Measured wheel HP-311 @ 5,200 RPM
Measured wheel torque-334 @ 4,000 RPM
Lateral Grip (200 ft skid pad) 0.80 g/with SFC 0.90 g!!!!
So where the RX8 might have a very small advantage in handling a very small suspention mod will make the Camaro equal on handeling. Stock for stock the Camaro will be very close to the RX8 and where it falls behind it will easly make up for in power/speed. Sorry but the Camaro is the better race/sports car!
Car and Driver did an artical on the Mustang Cobra vs. the RX8 and G35 and Mustang beat them both on the road course. The Camaro SS was also tested a couple of years ago against the Mustang Corbra and both cars performed equaly except the Cobra has some speed on the SS. You can't beat American Muscle!
What do you base this statement on? Because it is totally false. You can argue this all day but you will not prove this to be true. I'm convinced the Camaro will compeet just fine against cars like the RX8. why? Because I have SEEN it happen over and over. I live 20 minutes for the Rockies and some of the best curvy roads in the country. I have seen F-Bodys do pretty high speeds on these roads with no problems keeping up with just about anything. I have personally driven my LS1 close to it's limit on these roads(God be with me!
Get in a a 4th gen F-bod and drive her hard and see what I'm talking about! The Bragg-Smith Advanced Driving School uses Camaros to teach high performence driving to people all over the country. Justin Bell is a GT2 class world champion and he uses Camaros to train at his high performence driving school as well.
You are wrong about the Camaro.
SCCA isn't about performance in a straight line and Camaros and Trans Ams/Firebirds have dominated in SCCA T2 class for years. Fourth Generation F bodies have good, stiff body structures and more than competitive suspension tuning - especially Camaro SS'. Some of their competion in SCCA T2 have been BMW M3s, Nissan 350Zs, Honda S2000s and Porsche Boxters. Are those cars supposed to be decent handling cars?
I don't think you will ever hear XS650 say anything good about an American car anyway. If the Camaro were a Toyota made in Japan it would be a different story. I think he has fallen into the "imported is better" mindset. The Malibu looks like a nice car that should compete well with the overpriced imports. As for the Camaro, I don't think there was another car made that gave you more performance per dollar.quote:
Originally posted by XS650:
It depends on where you drive. I drive on real world twisty roads, not skid pads, not nice smooth road courses and power is not nearly as important on a real world twisty road.quote:
Originally posted by Chris B.:
So where the RX8 might have a very small advantage in handling a very small suspention mod will make the Camaro equal on handeling. Stock for stock the Camaro will be very close to the RX8 and where it falls behind it will easly make up for in power/speed. Sorry but the Camaro is the better race/sports car!
A Camaro is wretched on a less than smooth twisty road. Most of the racer boy mods that generate better skid pad numbers will make it even worse.
Wear your mullet proudly!quote:
Originally posted by XS650:
On a straight road. And... you don't have to wear a mullet if you drive a Mazda.quote:
Originally posted by Chris B.:
It's all in the eye of the beholder that is untill you get into power numbers and then the Camaro would eat the RX8 for lunch!
I just checked. As of two minutes ago I still owned a Chevy and a GMC. Don't assume that everyone buys just because of where something is made, just because you do.quote:
Originally posted by cousincletus:
I don't think you will ever hear XS650 say anything good about an American car anyway. If the Camaro were a Toyota made in Japan it would be a different story. I think he has fallen into the "imported is better" mindset. The Malibu looks like a nice car that should compete well with the overpriced imports. As for the Camaro, I don't think there was another car made that gave you more performance per dollar.
He didn't say you wouldn't own an American car, just that you'd never have anything good to say about them.
[ June 16, 2004, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: brianl703 ]
Actually the new Chrysler 300 looks promising. Of course that is based in the previous gen Mercedes E class platform. Personally I think Americans are capable of making cars that are as good as anyone, that is proven everyday by all the Toyota, Honda BMW and Mercedes car plants in the US, but the reality is that management at US automakers keep selling crap in the domestic market. I've driven superb GM sub compacts in Europe....but what do they sell here? Cavaliers and Sunbird POS's. Why? Because people will allow them to get away with it. Much cheaper to spend money on a "buy American" campaign then to build a quality product.
My response was that he shouldn't assume other people think like he does. He was wrong all around.
AMEN!!! And once, when I was stationed in the Phillipines, a couple friends and I rented a little Dihatsu minivan for a weekend trip into the country. Having had a couple of beers, I climbed in the passenger side, and yanked the sliding door forward to close it. Rather than translating down into the closed position, the door lurched forward, jumped out of its track, and cartwheeled end-over-end fifty feet or so down a hill, and landed in a sewage filled ditch! I turned to my buddy (who'd signed the rental agreement...), puffed my chest out a little, and said, "hey, better not F--- with me, I just ripped the door off of a car!" He wasn't amused.quote:
Originally posted by mnztr:
Actually the new Chrysler 300 looks promising. Of course that is based in the previous gen Mercedes E class platform. Personally I think Americans are capable of making cars that are as good as anyone, that is proven everyday by all the Toyota, Honda BMW and Mercedes car plants in the US, but the reality is that management at US automakers keep selling crap in the domestic market. I've driven superb GM sub compacts in Europe....but what do they sell here? Cavaliers and Sunbird POS's. Why? Because people will allow them to get away with it. Much cheaper to spend money on a "buy American" campaign then to build a quality product.
So no, although I'm a hard-core Toyota guy, in no way do I believe that Asians or any other foreigners, inherently build better cars than we do. They can, and do, make POSs too. The workers make what management tells them to make. No more, no less.
There is the intermediate option of the 3.5L V-6 too.
Just the first part.....time will tell if the new engine has the same shortcomings as the ones it replaced. GM is well know for sitting on the thumb after years of well know and well documented problems. A good example is the piston slap found in just about all GMs (including my 02 Z28) and oil consuption issues.
We'll see!
For what it's worth.....I've taken off 270* off ramps at 50MPH in my Z28.....I'm not brave enough to push the car to its limits though. keep in mind it's a Z28, NOT an SS. The Z28 has a much softer springs, shocks and sway bars.....also 16" rims.
I upgraded to the SS rims and made a nice difference in handling.....need to work on the rest!
EKPolk,
....that was too darn funny! We had a Mitsubishi or Nissan minivan (the skinny and short ones) when I was in Saudi......we trashed that thing. They seat something like 10 people and we were determined to get airborne using a huge bump on the road. Last time I was present, we hit the bump at ~60MPH with 8 people and we still didn't fly.
I learned to powershift in a VW Sharan (or something like that) when I was in Germany last year. Lots of fun!!
[ June 18, 2004, 12:45 AM: Message edited by: Last_Z ]
I upgraded to the SS rims and made a nice difference in handling.....need to work on the rest!
EKPolk,
I learned to powershift in a VW Sharan (or something like that) when I was in Germany last year. Lots of fun!!
[ June 18, 2004, 12:45 AM: Message edited by: Last_Z ]
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