I bought my Civic 4 years ago, for 700.00. I've put 40,000 miles on it with pretty inexpensive repairs. A big hole opened up today below the fuel door so I am losing the rust war but it runs and shifts perfect.
The "it's not worth it" mentality
- Thread starter Falcon_LS
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I figure as long as I'm not spending more in repair's, than I would in a new car payment, I'll keep my car. It'll be paid off next year and then I will be sitting pretty. I'm not about to adopt another car payment, when I am this close to getting my current car paid off.
I just spent $1800 getting new headgaskets/clutch, gaskets, and spark plugs put into the Subie last month. Still a lot cheaper than financing a new car. Now, the only thing the car will need in the near future is a brake job, its good to run for years now.
I just spent $1800 getting new headgaskets/clutch, gaskets, and spark plugs put into the Subie last month. Still a lot cheaper than financing a new car. Now, the only thing the car will need in the near future is a brake job, its good to run for years now.
I buy new but maintain the vehicles for many years. Rust is my worst enemy, and I'm staying on top of that as much as possible. I own a 2002 F-150 and 1996 Ford Contour, both bought new and still look real good. They are showing their age in the creaks, groans and some ride deterioration, but are livable, especially considering they are long paid for. Older vehicles are more owner maintenance friendly and less complicated.
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Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
External economics play a huge role in whether a new vehicle is more plausible than used. When the economic downturn first occurred, gas prices were sky high. A 3-4yr old fuel efficient economy car could fetch a price very close to new. So to choose new was as reasonable as used. Type of vehicle and urgency also play a role.
Also, personal economics play part. If a new car has close to 0% financing and your personal loan rate is neat 8% or whatever, in the end it may be more affordable to buy new.
This is the situation my now-wife and I found ourselves in back a few years when she needed another car. Used cars were priced sky-high, and the gas sippers especially so. With everything all considered, it was more sensible to buy a new car. We searched for a few months before finding our Honda for about $1500 more than a used Fit.
And, like other people have said, we know the maintenance history. That's worth it, IMO.
External economics play a huge role in whether a new vehicle is more plausible than used. When the economic downturn first occurred, gas prices were sky high. A 3-4yr old fuel efficient economy car could fetch a price very close to new. So to choose new was as reasonable as used. Type of vehicle and urgency also play a role.
Also, personal economics play part. If a new car has close to 0% financing and your personal loan rate is neat 8% or whatever, in the end it may be more affordable to buy new.
This is the situation my now-wife and I found ourselves in back a few years when she needed another car. Used cars were priced sky-high, and the gas sippers especially so. With everything all considered, it was more sensible to buy a new car. We searched for a few months before finding our Honda for about $1500 more than a used Fit.
And, like other people have said, we know the maintenance history. That's worth it, IMO.
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
External economics play a huge role in whether a new vehicle is more plausible than used. When the economic downturn first occurred, gas prices were sky high. A 3-4yr old fuel efficient economy car could fetch a price very close to new. So to choose new was as reasonable as used. Type of vehicle and urgency also play a role.
Also, personal economics play part. If a new car has close to 0% financing and your personal loan rate is neat 8% or whatever, in the end it may be more affordable to buy new.
This is the situation my now-wife and I found ourselves in back a few years when she needed another car. Used cars were priced sky-high, and the gas sippers especially so. With everything all considered, it was more sensible to buy a new car. We searched for a few months before finding our Honda for about $1500 more than a used Fit.
And, like other people have said, we know the maintenance history. That's worth it, IMO.
The market sure has changed in the last couple of years. I haven't seen a 2-3 year old car (compact/midsize) that made sense to buy used. By the time you pay the higher interest rate, buy the extended warranty and add in the reduced value in a car that already has 25k+ miles on it and is a couple years old, it just doesn't make sense.
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
External economics play a huge role in whether a new vehicle is more plausible than used. When the economic downturn first occurred, gas prices were sky high. A 3-4yr old fuel efficient economy car could fetch a price very close to new. So to choose new was as reasonable as used. Type of vehicle and urgency also play a role.
Also, personal economics play part. If a new car has close to 0% financing and your personal loan rate is neat 8% or whatever, in the end it may be more affordable to buy new.
This is the situation my now-wife and I found ourselves in back a few years when she needed another car. Used cars were priced sky-high, and the gas sippers especially so. With everything all considered, it was more sensible to buy a new car. We searched for a few months before finding our Honda for about $1500 more than a used Fit.
And, like other people have said, we know the maintenance history. That's worth it, IMO.
The market sure has changed in the last couple of years. I haven't seen a 2-3 year old car (compact/midsize) that made sense to buy used. By the time you pay the higher interest rate, buy the extended warranty and add in the reduced value in a car that already has 25k+ miles on it and is a couple years old, it just doesn't make sense.
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
I think at the end of the day, we're all free to do whatever we want. What are your reasons for babying your older vehicle(s)?
Because I don't like the current crop of cars that are in a price range that I feel is reasonable.
The current Mazda6S is bigger and more powerful, but it is also bigger, thirstier, softer, and only comes in an automatic sedan. No 6S manual hatchbacks here. Don't even ask about the wagon. And it's the "driver's car" of the current crop of midsize/fullsize fwd sedans. (An arguement can be made for the Passat SEL VR6 but you get the legendary VW VR6 timing chain, the manual transmission is advertised but seemingly unavailiable, and it costs as much as a Maxima)
The Fusion is the dumbed down version of the 6, The Altima isn't quite as good as the Fusion, the Camry is a wonderful appliance...if you enjoy driving a disconnected dishwasher, the Honda promises to be as dynamic as the Mazda but I personally haven't driven one that delivered on that promise, and the Malibu is....meh...
It's a little more interesting than a Camry. The Sonata is ugly and soft, the Optima seems like they overcompensated for the softness of the Sonata and ruined the suspension going the other way. (also strikes against the Sonata/Optima for being automatic only) I haven't driven the 200 but my experience with the Sebring led me to not want the Chrysler variant of the 2.4 GEMA. The same basic engine is in the '08 Sonata but you would not believe that if you drove them back to back. The steering was awful. Vague and imprecise. Handling? Nonexistant. Quite the opposite of the original Stratus/Breeze that the automotive press hailed as handling as well as a mid '90s Accord (a mid-'90s CD Accord with a Tupperware interior)
So I keep my Mazda. With it's slowly growing bubble in the headliner and 8 odd door dings from my wife and kid (in their words) just "resting" the PT's door on mine. But when I pitch it into a corner, it does things that the current crop does not and it continues to make me smile.
I think at the end of the day, we're all free to do whatever we want. What are your reasons for babying your older vehicle(s)?
Because I don't like the current crop of cars that are in a price range that I feel is reasonable.
The current Mazda6S is bigger and more powerful, but it is also bigger, thirstier, softer, and only comes in an automatic sedan. No 6S manual hatchbacks here. Don't even ask about the wagon. And it's the "driver's car" of the current crop of midsize/fullsize fwd sedans. (An arguement can be made for the Passat SEL VR6 but you get the legendary VW VR6 timing chain, the manual transmission is advertised but seemingly unavailiable, and it costs as much as a Maxima)
The Fusion is the dumbed down version of the 6, The Altima isn't quite as good as the Fusion, the Camry is a wonderful appliance...if you enjoy driving a disconnected dishwasher, the Honda promises to be as dynamic as the Mazda but I personally haven't driven one that delivered on that promise, and the Malibu is....meh...
So I keep my Mazda. With it's slowly growing bubble in the headliner and 8 odd door dings from my wife and kid (in their words) just "resting" the PT's door on mine. But when I pitch it into a corner, it does things that the current crop does not and it continues to make me smile.
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
I think at the end of the day, we're all free to do whatever we want. What are your reasons for babying your older vehicle(s)?
I agree with you 100%. People ask why I baby my old F-150. I recently did the motor, transmission, and had the differential serviced. That was cheaper than three payments on a new vehicle. Also, the only parts on the vehicle that I can think of that isn't genuine Motorcraft right now is the oil filter, heater core, voltage regular, shocks, and I've got some Bosch wipers waiting to be installed.
I enjoy working on vehicles myself, and it's got a lot of miles left in it. It's insurance is next to nothing and no one's made payments on the vehicles for over twenty years.
I think at the end of the day, we're all free to do whatever we want. What are your reasons for babying your older vehicle(s)?
I agree with you 100%. People ask why I baby my old F-150. I recently did the motor, transmission, and had the differential serviced. That was cheaper than three payments on a new vehicle. Also, the only parts on the vehicle that I can think of that isn't genuine Motorcraft right now is the oil filter, heater core, voltage regular, shocks, and I've got some Bosch wipers waiting to be installed.
I enjoy working on vehicles myself, and it's got a lot of miles left in it. It's insurance is next to nothing and no one's made payments on the vehicles for over twenty years.
A few years back I was in the market for a new PU truck, What I wanted had to be economical, reliable, easy to maintain (I like to maintain my own vehicles) Have a Low bed height and basically give me the Best Bang for my $
I was looking at New, but I was not finding what I wanted.
What I ended up with was.....I paid a Fair price for a 84 Toyota Extra cab that had been in storage almost from new (mint). I spent about $800 to bring it to good mechanical condition (Replacing rubber components Battery etc.)
What I have is a Truck with a known reputation, Depreciation is insignificant, Gets nice comments "Gee, that's in good shape" Parts are cheap, Insurance is cheap, Gets as good mileage as the current models, HAS COST ME $300 IN PARTS/REPAIRS IN THE LAST 4 YEARS! (including consumables) and Stands out from the crowd.
I was looking at New, but I was not finding what I wanted.
What I ended up with was.....I paid a Fair price for a 84 Toyota Extra cab that had been in storage almost from new (mint). I spent about $800 to bring it to good mechanical condition (Replacing rubber components Battery etc.)
What I have is a Truck with a known reputation, Depreciation is insignificant, Gets nice comments "Gee, that's in good shape" Parts are cheap, Insurance is cheap, Gets as good mileage as the current models, HAS COST ME $300 IN PARTS/REPAIRS IN THE LAST 4 YEARS! (including consumables) and Stands out from the crowd.
Im with ya, though Im still paying on my CV. Wouldnt matter if I was or not. Why run it ragged and immediately have to jump into another payment after its paid off?
I got a free 1991 Nissan Sentra from my uncle last year. From the outside it looks like a piece of junk. But for 198,000mi the engine still runs strong and the transmission shifts fine. However the engine leaks, the ride and the crack in the windshield kinda bothered me so they were fixed. Now it has 213,000 miles and still going. Best part is I like the removable rear seats so its handy for small pickup duties.
It just depends on the individual vehicle, For example, we had a 2000 Odyssey van. We bought it new and it had 80K on it. At that mileage, I was looking at a transmission that was shifting awkwardly (leaning toward failure), new tires, new exhaust, and a rear door motor that would barely shut the door. The KBB on the van was $7600 and I was looking short of 5K in repairs factoring in the transmission. Did I keep it? No. Went to replace the van and looked at used. Only decent used one we could find was a 2005 Odyssey EX with 23K. The best price I could get on it was $1500 less than I bought a brand new 2006 Odyssey EXL. Obviously, I bought new.
The other new car I bought the same year I still have, a 2000 Ford Taurus. I do a 130 mile round trip commute in it daily and at 256K still have the original motor and transmission going strong in it. Two or three times a year I have to throw a car payment or two at it in repairs (last visit was a crankcase seal @$80. and it cut the oil consumption considerably.) This one is obviously a keeper as long as it holds up and I'm hoping for three more years until retirement (for both of us.)
The other new car I bought the same year I still have, a 2000 Ford Taurus. I do a 130 mile round trip commute in it daily and at 256K still have the original motor and transmission going strong in it. Two or three times a year I have to throw a car payment or two at it in repairs (last visit was a crankcase seal @$80. and it cut the oil consumption considerably.) This one is obviously a keeper as long as it holds up and I'm hoping for three more years until retirement (for both of us.)
I would not pay $2k for many of the new cars out there!
OP's Grand Marquis was the last of its V8 RWD Body-on-Frame style and he CAN'T get a new one.
Any new car I buy will have bad focusing, but cool looking headlamps that will probably dull the plastic in 75k miles. It'll have ten airbags I don't want nor need, stability control to interfere with natural driving dynamics, 1000 extra pounds of junk, thick pillars and high door sills so I can't see out. 18 inch tires that are a thousand bucks to replace, rich-running gas guzzling engines to meet a PZEV NOx requirement. 80% of new cars also have very ugly styling.
OP's Grand Marquis was the last of its V8 RWD Body-on-Frame style and he CAN'T get a new one.
Any new car I buy will have bad focusing, but cool looking headlamps that will probably dull the plastic in 75k miles. It'll have ten airbags I don't want nor need, stability control to interfere with natural driving dynamics, 1000 extra pounds of junk, thick pillars and high door sills so I can't see out. 18 inch tires that are a thousand bucks to replace, rich-running gas guzzling engines to meet a PZEV NOx requirement. 80% of new cars also have very ugly styling.
i struggle with this. i love old cars and enjoy fixing them up and driving them. then I get bored and in the past would sell it and get something else. whatever I get, I tend to maintain very well, or resurrect to a reasonable level.
But $ is always lost on the transaction. few people pay more for a well-maintained vehicle-- they just want to see the bottom line. I can demonstrate perfect maintenance history, synthetic fluids, etc., and they don't care.
since I typically buy used I rarely have payments, so i save on interest, but I've paid "stupid tax" at times if I haven't kept a vehicle long enough to truly get my money's worth out of it. I had to buy the jeep new, and its flaws will be its own, not from lack of maintenance (the engine is reliable but has developed various noises early in life... not concerning yet but not normal for the 3.7). It's 5 years old and, sigh... i'm bored with it. But I'm going to hang on to it and focus on other things... getting too old (and financially aware) to keep changing cars...
(but I'd love to get my hands on a mid-90's 5-series and live with one for a while.... it's on my vehicle bucket list!)
m
But $ is always lost on the transaction. few people pay more for a well-maintained vehicle-- they just want to see the bottom line. I can demonstrate perfect maintenance history, synthetic fluids, etc., and they don't care.
since I typically buy used I rarely have payments, so i save on interest, but I've paid "stupid tax" at times if I haven't kept a vehicle long enough to truly get my money's worth out of it. I had to buy the jeep new, and its flaws will be its own, not from lack of maintenance (the engine is reliable but has developed various noises early in life... not concerning yet but not normal for the 3.7). It's 5 years old and, sigh... i'm bored with it. But I'm going to hang on to it and focus on other things... getting too old (and financially aware) to keep changing cars...
(but I'd love to get my hands on a mid-90's 5-series and live with one for a while.... it's on my vehicle bucket list!)
m
Originally Posted By: wirelessF
I got a free 1991 Nissan Sentra from my uncle last year. From the outside it looks like a piece of junk. But for 198,000mi the engine still runs strong and the transmission shifts fine. However the engine leaks, the ride and the crack in the windshield kinda bothered me so they were fixed. Now it has 213,000 miles and still going. Best part is I like the removable rear seats so its handy for small pickup duties.
The B13 Sentra is pretty much the Sentra to me.
The GA16DE isn't that great of an engine, but it's still much better than a Mitsubishi 4G15. Two timing chains instead of Honda's D15B7 timing belt. (and the GA16DE is more robust internally than a D15B7....the connecting rods on a D15B7 are the most rinky-dink little things compared to a D16A1/Z6...)
I got a free 1991 Nissan Sentra from my uncle last year. From the outside it looks like a piece of junk. But for 198,000mi the engine still runs strong and the transmission shifts fine. However the engine leaks, the ride and the crack in the windshield kinda bothered me so they were fixed. Now it has 213,000 miles and still going. Best part is I like the removable rear seats so its handy for small pickup duties.
The B13 Sentra is pretty much the Sentra to me.
The GA16DE isn't that great of an engine, but it's still much better than a Mitsubishi 4G15. Two timing chains instead of Honda's D15B7 timing belt. (and the GA16DE is more robust internally than a D15B7....the connecting rods on a D15B7 are the most rinky-dink little things compared to a D16A1/Z6...)
Wow, some interesting responses to this thread for sure! Now I don't feel so left out anymore!
Having said that, my obsession has now been taken up to a new level - just ordered a Bosch D+ and PureONE air filter for the Mercury from the States. Cost me 5 x more than their Motorcraft equivalents with shipping factored in, but I have a curious mind and the synthetic filter media/thicker air filter media may help lower Si levels in the oil. Now people can officially certify me as nuts.
Having said that, my obsession has now been taken up to a new level - just ordered a Bosch D+ and PureONE air filter for the Mercury from the States. Cost me 5 x more than their Motorcraft equivalents with shipping factored in, but I have a curious mind and the synthetic filter media/thicker air filter media may help lower Si levels in the oil. Now people can officially certify me as nuts.
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
What I do not appreciate, however, is when I get friends and family sticking their noses into my business. Why are you modifying and spending a lot of money that old Ford? Best one yet - you've got more money than sense.
I learned a long time ago that I don't care what other people think. You should try it-it's rather refreshing and will save you a lot of angst.
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
I think at the end of the day, we're all free to do whatever we want. What are your reasons for babying your older vehicle(s)?
I don't baby them at all. It's a machine that has a useful service life. I'll maintain it so that it's safe and reliable, but once it's reached the point that it no longer makes financial sense to make repairs it's either off to the scrap yard or it will be sold to someone willing to invest the time and money into it.
Under no circumstances will my vehicles get "babied", or over maintained. They are there to serve me and my needs-I don't serve my vehicle’s needs.
What I do not appreciate, however, is when I get friends and family sticking their noses into my business. Why are you modifying and spending a lot of money that old Ford? Best one yet - you've got more money than sense.
I learned a long time ago that I don't care what other people think. You should try it-it's rather refreshing and will save you a lot of angst.
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
I think at the end of the day, we're all free to do whatever we want. What are your reasons for babying your older vehicle(s)?
I don't baby them at all. It's a machine that has a useful service life. I'll maintain it so that it's safe and reliable, but once it's reached the point that it no longer makes financial sense to make repairs it's either off to the scrap yard or it will be sold to someone willing to invest the time and money into it.
Under no circumstances will my vehicles get "babied", or over maintained. They are there to serve me and my needs-I don't serve my vehicle’s needs.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I would not pay $2k for many of the new cars out there!
OP's Grand Marquis was the last of its V8 RWD Body-on-Frame style and he CAN'T get a new one.
Any new car I buy will have bad focusing, but cool looking headlamps that will probably dull the plastic in 75k miles. It'll have ten airbags I don't want nor need, stability control to interfere with natural driving dynamics, 1000 extra pounds of junk, thick pillars and high door sills so I can't see out. 18 inch tires that are a thousand bucks to replace, rich-running gas guzzling engines to meet a PZEV NOx requirement. 80% of new cars also have very ugly styling.
Couldn't agree more with you!
I would not pay $2k for many of the new cars out there!
OP's Grand Marquis was the last of its V8 RWD Body-on-Frame style and he CAN'T get a new one.
Any new car I buy will have bad focusing, but cool looking headlamps that will probably dull the plastic in 75k miles. It'll have ten airbags I don't want nor need, stability control to interfere with natural driving dynamics, 1000 extra pounds of junk, thick pillars and high door sills so I can't see out. 18 inch tires that are a thousand bucks to replace, rich-running gas guzzling engines to meet a PZEV NOx requirement. 80% of new cars also have very ugly styling.
Couldn't agree more with you!
My current ride a 97 Mustang GT is the newest car I have ever owned. I picked it up for $3,500 about a year ago from an older woman that took real good care of it. Up until 12 years ago my daily driver was a 57 Chevy P/U that I had put a built 283 V-8 in after yanking the dead inline 6. I think it had 500-600k on it when I let it go. I have owned many older cars and loved them all. Many I regret selling. I think Im up to 36 or 37 cars so far. Not counting all the motorcycles. I love working on the old stuff. The older the better. I am always looking for an old well kept car to buy and save from the wrecking yard. Now why on earth would I buy a new car when there are so many old ones out there for a fraction of the price. Most only needing minor repairs. I'll gladly pay 4-5 hundred dollars for repair parts then put that money towards a car payment every month.
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Originally Posted By: 4ever4d
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I would not pay $2k for many of the new cars out there!
OP's Grand Marquis was the last of its V8 RWD Body-on-Frame style and he CAN'T get a new one.
Any new car I buy will have bad focusing, but cool looking headlamps that will probably dull the plastic in 75k miles. It'll have ten airbags I don't want nor need, stability control to interfere with natural driving dynamics, 1000 extra pounds of junk, thick pillars and high door sills so I can't see out. 18 inch tires that are a thousand bucks to replace, rich-running gas guzzling engines to meet a PZEV NOx requirement. 80% of new cars also have very ugly styling.
Couldn't agree more with you!
+1, well said. Some of those "bad" things have their places, but we have gone too far, IMO.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I would not pay $2k for many of the new cars out there!
OP's Grand Marquis was the last of its V8 RWD Body-on-Frame style and he CAN'T get a new one.
Any new car I buy will have bad focusing, but cool looking headlamps that will probably dull the plastic in 75k miles. It'll have ten airbags I don't want nor need, stability control to interfere with natural driving dynamics, 1000 extra pounds of junk, thick pillars and high door sills so I can't see out. 18 inch tires that are a thousand bucks to replace, rich-running gas guzzling engines to meet a PZEV NOx requirement. 80% of new cars also have very ugly styling.
Couldn't agree more with you!
+1, well said. Some of those "bad" things have their places, but we have gone too far, IMO.
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