My daughter and her husband have a 2005 MB something 4 dr sedan, a 2007 MB SL500, 2010 Ford F350 V 10, 2009 Infinity SUV, 2008 GMC 2500 truck, 99 GMC Conversion van, and 69 Camaro. His moto is run the same oil in everything. He does his own OCs and his oil of choice is M1 10-30. I have mentioned that M1 0-40 might be a better way to go in the MBs, but he says "why mess with success".
The issue with Euro cars in North America and oils
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Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Anybody else run into this? It sounds like it is very easy to screw up for somebody who isn't "into" oil. They think they are doing the right thing.
Run into that on this forum. Remember?
Talking about my oil emergency or another event? LOL!
Another event: The claim that conventional oil would be fine in a 2003 BMW with the request for volunteers to prove it
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Anybody else run into this? It sounds like it is very easy to screw up for somebody who isn't "into" oil. They think they are doing the right thing.
Run into that on this forum. Remember?
Talking about my oil emergency or another event? LOL!
Another event: The claim that conventional oil would be fine in a 2003 BMW with the request for volunteers to prove it
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Anybody else run into this? It sounds like it is very easy to screw up for somebody who isn't "into" oil. They think they are doing the right thing.
Run into that on this forum. Remember?
Talking about my oil emergency or another event? LOL!
Another event: The claim that conventional oil would be fine in a 2003 BMW with the request for volunteers to prove it
I don't remember that one!
Link me!
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Anybody else run into this? It sounds like it is very easy to screw up for somebody who isn't "into" oil. They think they are doing the right thing.
Run into that on this forum. Remember?
Talking about my oil emergency or another event? LOL!
Another event: The claim that conventional oil would be fine in a 2003 BMW with the request for volunteers to prove it
I don't remember that one!
A few months ago on AudiWorld, someone with a very high post count posted an excellent write-up on changing oil with detailed pics. In one of the pics was his Energy Conserving Mobil1 5W-30 that he just added to the engine (3.2 V6 IIRC).
-Dennis
-Dennis
Some people have issues with following directions.
Actually with German cars its really easy, just run Mobil 1 0w40 or Castrol 0w30, that covers most of them.
People just make it harder than it has to be.
Actually with German cars its really easy, just run Mobil 1 0w40 or Castrol 0w30, that covers most of them.
People just make it harder than it has to be.
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Some people have issues with following directions.
Actually with German cars its really easy, just run Mobil 1 0w40 or Castrol 0w30, that covers most of them.
People just make it harder than it has to be.
People just don't know. The manual says 5w30 and synthetic (at least for the BMW in question) so he was quite surprised when I told him 0w40! He thought he was doing right by his car and following the manual.
Some people have issues with following directions.
Actually with German cars its really easy, just run Mobil 1 0w40 or Castrol 0w30, that covers most of them.
People just make it harder than it has to be.
People just don't know. The manual says 5w30 and synthetic (at least for the BMW in question) so he was quite surprised when I told him 0w40! He thought he was doing right by his car and following the manual.
The Euro oil stuff really threw my dad off. "5w40? Why do you need something so thick?!" or "What do you mean you can't just use Mobil 1 5w30? Why not?"
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Same thing happens here. For BMWs, people see "BMW recommends Castrol" on the oil cap, and dump in Castrol GTX 20W-50 meeting API SL/CF. For Mercedes cars, the dealership uses Fuchs Titan lubricants, so they dump in Fuchs Titan Formel 15W-40 meeting API SJ/CG-4. The Mercedes dealership also endorses this oil for 5,000 km/3,000 mile runs.
A lot of my friends use lubricants not conforming to specifications, and when I mention BMW LL-01 or MB Sheet 229.5, they say the dealership knows better. So I'm just an idiot next to the holy dealerships who always use what is best for their cars.
A lot of my friends use lubricants not conforming to specifications, and when I mention BMW LL-01 or MB Sheet 229.5, they say the dealership knows better. So I'm just an idiot next to the holy dealerships who always use what is best for their cars.
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: dparm
What's interesting is my manual:
There is NO mention of VW 502/505. This was later backspec'd.
That's for top up. The next page probably describes oild changes and will mention VW 502/505.
Nope. Next page does not mention any sort of oil spec.
Funny. My old 02 Golf owner's manual did list use of 502 (gas) and 505.00 (TDI), among some other ACEA & API specs...this was prior to the longitudinal 1.8T sludge fiasco.
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: dparm
What's interesting is my manual:
There is NO mention of VW 502/505. This was later backspec'd.
That's for top up. The next page probably describes oild changes and will mention VW 502/505.
Nope. Next page does not mention any sort of oil spec.
Funny. My old 02 Golf owner's manual did list use of 502 (gas) and 505.00 (TDI), among some other ACEA & API specs...this was prior to the longitudinal 1.8T sludge fiasco.
I stopped trying to argue/educate a lot of folks on oil. They either get confused and say they don't care, or they say I'm an idiot and "the manufacturer knows better".
Originally Posted By: tig1
My daughter and her husband have a 2005 MB something 4 dr sedan, a 2007 MB SL500, 2010 Ford F350 V 10, 2009 Infinity SUV, 2008 GMC 2500 truck, 99 GMC Conversion van, and 69 Camaro. His moto is run the same oil in everything. He does his own OCs and his oil of choice is M1 10-30. I have mentioned that M1 0-40 might be a better way to go in the MBs, but he says "why mess with success".
and you can't argue with them if their cars are running fine unto the point of when they sell them.
My daughter and her husband have a 2005 MB something 4 dr sedan, a 2007 MB SL500, 2010 Ford F350 V 10, 2009 Infinity SUV, 2008 GMC 2500 truck, 99 GMC Conversion van, and 69 Camaro. His moto is run the same oil in everything. He does his own OCs and his oil of choice is M1 10-30. I have mentioned that M1 0-40 might be a better way to go in the MBs, but he says "why mess with success".
and you can't argue with them if their cars are running fine unto the point of when they sell them.
If you want to get slightly OT.... there is the issue with GM cars in North America and oils.... since GM introduced the new Dexos standard, which commonly available oils typically do not meet....
Normally, my thoughts are 'RTFM'. But in this case, it's easy to understand the confusion unless you're really into oil. BMW uses a Castrol product labeled 5W30 synthetic; someone buys a Castrol product labeled "5W30 synthetic"... This is an easy mistake to make unless you like reading about motor oil.
As a funny aside, and to give you a counterpoint to this, short after I bought my (used) V70R I had a turbo seal changed by a local indy guy, as it was blowing a bit past the seal--and I didn't feel like dropping the drive shaft to DIY. I had him change the oil while he was doing it. These guys pretty much just do Volvo and BMW. Anyway, they used Pentosin 0W30, and the guy made a point of telling me that it required an LL-01 oil, then told me if I was doing the changes myself I should only use GC, M10W40, BMW's oil or Pentosin--that's it. It didn't even occur to me until I sold the car the LL-01 is a BMW spec? For a high-boosted motor it's certainly not bad advice, but the whole time I owned the car I didn't realize that technically, the requirements were simply SL-rated GF-3. I wouldn't have changed what oil I used, but no--I guess I missed this in the manual...
As a funny aside, and to give you a counterpoint to this, short after I bought my (used) V70R I had a turbo seal changed by a local indy guy, as it was blowing a bit past the seal--and I didn't feel like dropping the drive shaft to DIY. I had him change the oil while he was doing it. These guys pretty much just do Volvo and BMW. Anyway, they used Pentosin 0W30, and the guy made a point of telling me that it required an LL-01 oil, then told me if I was doing the changes myself I should only use GC, M10W40, BMW's oil or Pentosin--that's it. It didn't even occur to me until I sold the car the LL-01 is a BMW spec? For a high-boosted motor it's certainly not bad advice, but the whole time I owned the car I didn't realize that technically, the requirements were simply SL-rated GF-3. I wouldn't have changed what oil I used, but no--I guess I missed this in the manual...
People do commonly use non-spec oils in German cars. How much damage that actually does, if any, really depends on the particular engine, oil, and driving conditions.
For example, I ran M1 0W-40 and M1 5W-30 back to back one summer in a modified VW 1.8T and had both analyzed at 5K miles. Car saw probably 70-80 percent highway miles. Both oils did fine, very low wear metals across the board, no real differences. Certainly nothing to suggest that the non-spec, lower HTHS 5W-30 was causing any problems or excessive wear.
On the other hand, people who have used conventional or blend oils in the longitudinal 1.8T and followed what was at one time the recommended OCI of 10K miles, have had issues with engine sludge.
So I guess in the end, the safest route is to use a spec oil, but you can get away with doing otherwise if you have or gather enough information and perhaps do some testing.
For example, I ran M1 0W-40 and M1 5W-30 back to back one summer in a modified VW 1.8T and had both analyzed at 5K miles. Car saw probably 70-80 percent highway miles. Both oils did fine, very low wear metals across the board, no real differences. Certainly nothing to suggest that the non-spec, lower HTHS 5W-30 was causing any problems or excessive wear.
On the other hand, people who have used conventional or blend oils in the longitudinal 1.8T and followed what was at one time the recommended OCI of 10K miles, have had issues with engine sludge.
So I guess in the end, the safest route is to use a spec oil, but you can get away with doing otherwise if you have or gather enough information and perhaps do some testing.
Originally Posted By: dbrowne1
People do commonly use non-spec oils in German cars. How much damage that actually does, if any, really depends on the particular engine, oil, and driving conditions.
For example, I ran M1 0W-40 and M1 5W-30 back to back one summer in a modified VW 1.8T and had both analyzed at 5K miles. Car saw probably 70-80 percent highway miles. Both oils did fine, very low wear metals across the board, no real differences. Certainly nothing to suggest that the non-spec, lower HTHS 5W-30 was causing any problems or excessive wear.
On the other hand, people who have used conventional or blend oils in the longitudinal 1.8T and followed what was at one time the recommended OCI of 10K miles, have had issues with engine sludge.
So I guess in the end, the safest route is to use a spec oil, but you can get away with doing otherwise if you have or gather enough information and perhaps do some testing.
The problem is that a UOA, esp a single pass, doesn't tell you whether or not the oil is "ok" for your engine. Even 5k miles UOA's.
My attitude is that the OEM's spec is designed for most of the markets in which they'll sell their cars and it meets the intended OCI based upon typical usage.
People do commonly use non-spec oils in German cars. How much damage that actually does, if any, really depends on the particular engine, oil, and driving conditions.
For example, I ran M1 0W-40 and M1 5W-30 back to back one summer in a modified VW 1.8T and had both analyzed at 5K miles. Car saw probably 70-80 percent highway miles. Both oils did fine, very low wear metals across the board, no real differences. Certainly nothing to suggest that the non-spec, lower HTHS 5W-30 was causing any problems or excessive wear.
On the other hand, people who have used conventional or blend oils in the longitudinal 1.8T and followed what was at one time the recommended OCI of 10K miles, have had issues with engine sludge.
So I guess in the end, the safest route is to use a spec oil, but you can get away with doing otherwise if you have or gather enough information and perhaps do some testing.
The problem is that a UOA, esp a single pass, doesn't tell you whether or not the oil is "ok" for your engine. Even 5k miles UOA's.
My attitude is that the OEM's spec is designed for most of the markets in which they'll sell their cars and it meets the intended OCI based upon typical usage.
Reading bottles and manuals arent exactly done in europe either!
But what we can se is that highmilage oci´s create sludged engines that fails at 10kmiles or so, wery convinient since all the warranties have run out.
So my cnclusion is use any good oil oil but dont let the oil run
fore more than 10 kmiles no matter what the olm says.
-Long service intervals sells cars...What do you think
the manufacturer whants? Long life or sell cars.
-This also aderes to lifetime fill trannies etc.
I´ve seen vw diesels run a long and healty life on STOU at farmers using STOU as the only oil for their fleet. STOU doesent fullfill any vw spec at all but they change oil usually twice a year and voila- the engine lasts
But what we can se is that highmilage oci´s create sludged engines that fails at 10kmiles or so, wery convinient since all the warranties have run out.
So my cnclusion is use any good oil oil but dont let the oil run
fore more than 10 kmiles no matter what the olm says.
-Long service intervals sells cars...What do you think
the manufacturer whants? Long life or sell cars.
-This also aderes to lifetime fill trannies etc.
I´ve seen vw diesels run a long and healty life on STOU at farmers using STOU as the only oil for their fleet. STOU doesent fullfill any vw spec at all but they change oil usually twice a year and voila- the engine lasts
Originally Posted By: ac_tc
Reading bottles and manuals arent exactly done in europe either!
But what we can se is that highmilage oci´s create sludged engines that fails at 10kmiles or so, wery convinient since all the warranties have run out.
So my cnclusion is use any good oil oil but dont let the oil run
fore more than 10 kmiles no matter what the olm says.
-Long service intervals sells cars...What do you think
the manufacturer whants? Long life or sell cars.
-This also aderes to lifetime fill trannies etc.
I´ve seen vw diesels run a long and healty life on STOU at farmers using STOU as the only oil for their fleet. STOU doesent fullfill any vw spec at all but they change oil usually twice a year and voila- the engine lasts
Is that really what you're seeing in Sweden? Cars with engine problems @ 100k miles? What's the opinion of the ACEA body itself? Is the impression that they're pushing junk science with their A3/B4 spec?
Reading bottles and manuals arent exactly done in europe either!
But what we can se is that highmilage oci´s create sludged engines that fails at 10kmiles or so, wery convinient since all the warranties have run out.
So my cnclusion is use any good oil oil but dont let the oil run
fore more than 10 kmiles no matter what the olm says.
-Long service intervals sells cars...What do you think
the manufacturer whants? Long life or sell cars.
-This also aderes to lifetime fill trannies etc.
I´ve seen vw diesels run a long and healty life on STOU at farmers using STOU as the only oil for their fleet. STOU doesent fullfill any vw spec at all but they change oil usually twice a year and voila- the engine lasts
Is that really what you're seeing in Sweden? Cars with engine problems @ 100k miles? What's the opinion of the ACEA body itself? Is the impression that they're pushing junk science with their A3/B4 spec?
I have two Volvos, one an '01 S60 T5 with the mid-pressure turbo B5234T3 engine and ~127,000 mi and the other an '05 S60 R with the higher-pressure turbo B5254T4 engine (also running a 19 psi tune on it) and ~99,000 mi. Both call for an A5/B5 oil in the owner's manual, which for a long time all I used was M1 0W-40. Now that the 0W-40 has disappeared from Wal-Mart shelves and I can't bring myself to pay $8.99/qt at other stores, I've begun using Rotella T6 5W-40. It's an E9 spec oil, which looks to have comparable performance requirements to A5 oils, plus better anti-coking properties, which is important for both my turbos, since I compete with the '01 in NASA HPDE and AutoX events and drive the R ...hard. I've been using the T6 for about 10,000 mi and UOAs on both cars are fantastic.... might be something to consider for other folks driving both turbo and non-turbo Euro cars.
We ran into this problem a bit when i worked at a WM TLE.
At the time, we only carried a little bit of GC, and no 5W-40's.
We wouldn't touch newer German cars, but lots of people would come with older BMW's, Mercedes, and Audi's wanting us to put in our bulk PZL 5W-30 or 10W-30. They were always shocked nad insulted when we suggested going to a German dealership.
I was pretty well the only one in the shop that truely understood why.
At the time, we only carried a little bit of GC, and no 5W-40's.
We wouldn't touch newer German cars, but lots of people would come with older BMW's, Mercedes, and Audi's wanting us to put in our bulk PZL 5W-30 or 10W-30. They were always shocked nad insulted when we suggested going to a German dealership.
I was pretty well the only one in the shop that truely understood why.
When I was in a WM TLE to do tire installation, I asked the service writer about the cost of doing oil+filter for my E430, he said the same, they don't do BMW, MB, Audi ... The reason was it cost too much to repair if one of the tech makes a mistake, also they don't have correct fluid and filter for German engines.
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