The issue with Euro cars in North America and oils

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OVERKILL

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I've heard this issue discussed on here before. People running the Euro drain intervals on generic oils. An engine spec's 5w30, and they run generic 5w30. Not realizing that their engine requires the oil meets a certain long drain spec. People don't open their manual, or when they do, don't interpret what they've read there correctly.

I had my first brush with this last week. My sister (the one that used to have the 535i) now has a Jetta, and her boyfriend, who is a wonderfully brilliant individual (works for Lockheed), has a 325xi wagon. He and I get along smashingly. And he was dying to go for a rip in the M, so of course the topic of cars and oils comes up.

He bought the car from a couple who had been servicing the car with Syntec 5w30 (not GC 0w30) at the BMW OLM intervals, which are somewhere around 25,000Km. It had been originally serviced at the dealer, but when the free service ran out, they followed the OLM....

After he purchased it, he continued to run Syntec 5w30 in it, as he was of the (false) impression that this was the right oil for this car. But the car consumed a lot of oil (like 1L in 1000Km) and he figured it was dirty inside, so had been running short intervals (max of 5K) to clean it up. This appeared to be working, as consumption had been dropping.

When I asked him if he had read the manual, he said he had. And that it recommended Castrol 5w30. I told him it probably suggested BMW Castrol 5w30, which is an LL-01 oil. He said he wasn't sure but thought he was using the right oil. I explained that they were very different oils. The LL-01 oil being designed for extended drains. That it had a much higher HTHS, and that he would have been looking for the GC 0w30 to have an "approved" oil in the sump.... He was surprised and concerned. And then told me about the previous owners using the same oil.... At the OLM interval. And that explained the consumption. It also explained the built-up under the oil fill cap, since the car is short tripped frequently, and was short tripped by the previous owners.

He likely changed the oil this past weekend. He was a little freaked out about running the wrong oil. I showed him the M1 0w40 I was using in the M5, and the back of the bottle where it showed the BMW LL-01 approval. While I was in with my sisters, I guess he went outside and went back through his manual. He said he looked over the oil section again and that yeah, he was supposed to be using the LL-01 oil. That somehow he had read it incorrectly before. He saw Castrol, synthetic and 5w30, so that's what he bought.

Anybody else run into this? It sounds like it is very easy to screw up for somebody who isn't "into" oil. They think they are doing the right thing.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
It also explained the built-up under the oil fill cap, since the car is short tripped frequently, and was short tripped by the previous owners.

If you're short tripping the car, you'll end up with a buildup of crud under the fill cap regardless what oil you run. Oil doesn't get up to temp long enough and doesn't allow for all the water vapor to burn off. If you're short tripping, you need to be changing your oil more frequently, regardless if it's LL-01 or not, IMO.

Quote:
Anybody else run into this?

Yup. All the time. I've been around euro cars for over 10 years now, and although the writing in owners manuals has gotten better over the years (before, they wouldn't even bother to write things like LL-01, or VW 502.00), the issue with owners not paying attention to these specs and not realizing their importance still persists. This is especially true for owners of luxo cars who think the car shouldn't require any maintenance to begin with because it was so expensive to buy in the first place, lol!
 
I see this all the time.

The form I see it take is that when I ask someone what kind of oil their car needs, they just quote a viscosity grade as though that's all there is to it, and then are dumbfounded by the suggestion that that's not the whole story. They're not stupid, bad at reading, or willfully ignorant; they just don't know.

Computers and cars: many people depend on them, and most are absolutely clueless as to how they work.
 
People use non approved oils for all sorts of unsubstainted reasons. It's just human nature. I remember seeing a guy in a parts store buying m1 5w-30 for his E46 and he told me his car ran fine on it when I politely suggested the LL01 0W-40. I did not know his OCI but if his measure of "running fine" is whether the engine starts and runs I can't argue with him. Like I said people will make any excuse to use something different although usually the real reason is cost, laziness, or boredom.
 
A friend of mine has a 325i (E46) and I had a little discussion about motor oil. I have only recently helped with maintenance with this car so I have no idea what oil was put into that car. He tells me that in the past they just buy the oil and bring it to the shop to let them change it. Of course I asked what kind of oil, he tells me its oil made for BMW. I assume that BMW 5W-30 or 5W-40 oil was used.

When I did get a chance to help change the oil I see a case of Mobil 1 10W-30 in the trunk. So that was what it was likely has been put into the engine for the past 100,000 miles. The car never consumed any oil and ran just fine as I was told. I'm not sure what the interval change was but I assume whenever the service indicator comes up on the dash. I should do a UOA to see how the Mobil 1 10W-30 holds up. I did tell him about there is Mobil 1 0W-40 along with other oils that have the LL-01 spec. I think many out there are not familiar with those specs and that oil is oil. Then some people never flip through the manual.

On my Jetta which has the 2.0L engine I just put in conventional 10W-30. Its no special high performance engine so I don't really care for that cheap engine that much.
 
What's interesting is my manual:

IMG_3398.jpg


There is NO mention of VW 502/505. This was later backspec'd.
 
This seems to be an issue with German cars but not all Euro cars. My Volvo only says API SL or A1 5w-30 motor oil, or 0w-30, 5w-40 synthetic under certain conditions.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
What's interesting is my manual:

IMG_3398.jpg


There is NO mention of VW 502/505. This was later backspec'd.


That's for top up. The next page probably describes oild changes and will mention VW 502/505.
 
We have two Saab automobiles. Each receives the factory specified grade of a Euro blend oil. 0W/30 Total Quartz Energy 9000 in our 9-3, and 5W/40 Total Quartz Energy 9000 in our 9-5.

I guess the 5W/40 weight is heavier than specified in the 9-5 Owner's Manual, but it also has 306,000+ miles on its odometer.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: felixthecat
I would not run anything but TWS on an M5


Why? Other than being heavier, it is less robust than M1 0w40. The S62 only spec'd the 10w60 because the other M cars did. When the rings were redesigned to handle lighter oil, they were run on BMW Synthetic 5w30. I'm sure that's what mine has had the vast majority of its life and most of them produced after 03/00.

My manual calls for BMW Synthetic 5w30, not TWS 10w60.

The majority of the guys who have had the rod bearing issue.... Were running TWS 10w60 (and of course, since a lot of them use that oil, it is going to make up the largest percentage anyway) so it obviously doesn't work to stave off that problem.
 
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: dparm
What's interesting is my manual:

IMG_3398.jpg


There is NO mention of VW 502/505. This was later backspec'd.


That's for top up. The next page probably describes oild changes and will mention VW 502/505.


Nope. Next page does not mention any sort of oil spec.
 
My friend/co-worker with a 2004 1.8T GTI was using M1 5w30. I explained there's more to oil than its grade (as 5w30 was mentioned in the owner's manual), there's specs also! This wasn't the SBC, BBC or Honda that he was used to in terms of oil specs.

Went to Mobil's site and showed him "The company that manufactures your vehicle recommends this Mobil 1 product, or has a special requirement" and the only oil from Mobil happens to be M1 0w40.

I gave him my leftover quart of M1 0w40 and he bought some more full quarts for an oil change.
 
Originally Posted By: felixthecat



Oil recommendation changes were a marketing issue.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/142633-what-bmw-has-say-subject-oil.html


I've read that thread, and am a member there. However, the recommendation for the LL-01 oils is for everywhere OUTSIDE the US. If you use the Mobil 1 oil selectors, only the ones OUTSIDE the United States recommend their 0w40 for the S62/M5 and specifically state that the engine had to be manufactured after 03/00.

Again, if the TWS 10w60 was indeed the "holy grail" for the S62, it would prevent the rod bearing failure that some have experienced. This is not the case. In fact I have yet to see any proof that the TWS makes an S62 last any longer at all.

But that is not the point of this thread. This thread isn't about my M5 or my oil choice. There is another one of those threads that I created that, if you want to continue this debate, we can do in that thread so we don't continue to derail this one.
 
I just had this discussion with my father. He had offered me some QS 5w-30 synthetic and I told him that I didn't have any cars that spec that oil. He was puzzled and said "What weight do they call for?" I explained that the weight was O.K., but the rating was not. Still puzzled he said "It's the newest API SN oil with a GF-5 rating." I further explained that Euro makers don't care about the API rating, but look at the ACEA rating. I told him I would only run a oil with a ACEA A3 rating, which meant a HTHS of 3.5 or higher, in my Audi's per their specs. Preferably one with a VW 502 approval. He scanned the back of the QS bottle and said "I don't see any ACEA number." I said "Exactly"
 
I recall running into a buddy at AZ a few years ago, who was buying Syntec Blend for his wife's Mercedes.
At least the guy was going to change the oil.
I steered him over to the GC, which was then on sale for around $4.50/qt.
He bought the Syntec Blend anyway.
People need to pay attention to what their car actually requires.
It doesn't cost that much more to use a proper oil.
It may end up costing much less than having to deal with massive sludge down the road.
Of course, that could just end up being the next guy's problem.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


Anybody else run into this? It sounds like it is very easy to screw up for somebody who isn't "into" oil. They think they are doing the right thing.


Run into that on this forum. Remember?
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


Anybody else run into this? It sounds like it is very easy to screw up for somebody who isn't "into" oil. They think they are doing the right thing.


Run into that on this forum. Remember?
grin.gif



Talking about my oil emergency or another event? LOL!
 
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