The Irony in all of this.........

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...is that modern engines are lasting longer than ever & often outlive the rest of the car. So what's all the fighting about? I run into people all the time that have well over 200k miles on their vehicles using Bill from Utah 5w-30. Maybe Bill is the voice of reason on the board. This is excluding extended drain intervals of course. It's funny too because with all the time I've spent on the board, I've never met anyone in my life that lost an engine from a lubrication failure.
 

mva

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It's fun to argue and learn the details. Another common goal here is to make an engine last much longer than average. I agree that the simple solution is to use an oil the car manufacter recommends and change it out as per their recommendations; usually SM dino 5W30 or 5W20 for most modern vehicles. That said, there are plenty of people with sludged up engines to the point they need to be rebuilt or exchanged. I think in most of these cases they haven't followed recommended maintenance schedules. But some engines are very hard on oil.
 
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 Originally Posted By: buster
...is that modern engines are lasting longer than ever & often outlive the rest of the car. So what's all the fighting about?
I've been saying this all along, too. But partially they are lasting longer thanks to improvements in lubrication as well. You would really have to search hard to find an oil that would cause serious damage to your engine though, special applications such as turbo excluded.
 Originally Posted By: buster
The Irony in all of this.........
Wait, i thought the irony was only in Mobil1...
 
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 Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
You've really never seen an engine fail due to lubrication failure?
Neither have I,unless it was owner neglect.Ran too low on oil,or something like that.
 
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 Originally Posted By: mva
It's fun to argue and learn the details. Another common goal here is to make an engine last much longer than average. I agree that the simple solution is to use an oil the car manufacter recommends and change it out as per their recommendations; usually SM dino 5W30 or 5W20 for most modern vehicles. That said, there are plenty of people with sludged up engines to the point they need to be rebuilt or exchanged. I think in most of these cases they haven't followed recommended maintenance schedules. But some engines are very hard on oil.
"But some engines are very hard on oil." I.E Mine!
 
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I've seen all kinds of lubrication related issues. Stuck rings, worn cams, sludged motors, and it's not always due to neglect. I think the guys that don't see lubricant related problems just aren't exposed to enough engines. I just recently saw a 5.4 3V with VCT issues because of minor sludge buildup. The truck was regularly serviced at the dealership (5K-6k OCIs on bulk Warren/Coastal) and had a nice internal varnish coating to match at 80K. No problems before this. Based on other 5.4 3Vs, no such problems exist when run on a quality oil (dino or not). So yes, I think there are still some questionable lubricants out there, some that are even supposed to meet "API specs".
 
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I've had an engine fail - and to this day I dont know the whole story - other than the main and rod bearings were excessively worn. It was a 1989 Jeep Comanche with the 4.0L engine. Here are the facts, but I dont know the real reason for failure: - I religiously changed the oil every 3k miles - lots of highway miles, towed alot. mostly a snowmobile trailer and sometimes a 3000 lb boat. - I had a Jeep tranny cooler installed - bought the truck used with about 17k miles on it - in 2000 the motor failed with approx 125k miles on it. I was running down the highway and it just bogged down. - 1 week prior to the engine failure, I had the oil pan replaced by an independent shop. pan was replaced due to rust thru. - prior to failure, the engine made no unusual noises and used no oil. - the truck only had idoit lights, so I cannot comment on the oil pressure leading up to failure so.... did the shop that replaced the oil pan reinstall the oil pump incorrectly? or did the motor just wear out? was its demised hastened by the original owner? I am fanatical about maintenance and was floored by the failure. yes, I had the actual engine rebuilt by Accurate Engines of GR MI and I personally put another 50k+ on it before selling it to a relative who really needed a truck. but to this day I still wonder.....
 
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and people who have no experience with engine failure should spend an hour researching the dodge 2.7L LH motor. there are plenty of early motor failures due to sludge. or some of the 96-01 toyotas. or selected VW, Merc, etc. kinda funny, some people claim that 3k OCI's are a waste. yet, sludge happens
 
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 Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
 Originally Posted By: buster
...is that modern engines are lasting longer than ever & often outlive the rest of the car. So what's all the fighting about?
 Originally Posted By: buster
The Irony in all of this.........
Wait, i thought the irony was only in Mobil1...
 
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 Originally Posted By: tomcat27
and people who have no experience with engine failure should spend an hour researching the dodge 2.7L LH motor. there are plenty of early motor failures due to sludge. or some of the 96-01 toyotas. or selected VW, Merc, etc. kinda funny, some people claim that 3k OCI's are a waste. yet, sludge happens
yeah well that Dodge 2.7 liter should never have been put into production. What a piece that thing is.
 

buster

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 Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
 Originally Posted By: buster
[quote=buster]The Irony in all of this.........
Wait, i thought the irony was only in Mobil1...
Well that too!
 
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 Quote:
kinda funny, some people claim that 3k OCI's are a waste. yet, sludge happens
But, was the sludge caused by the 3K OCI, or some other engine issue?
 
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lack of oil, coolant leak, air intake leak will do it. If you check those things, engine to 250k. even my lowly sunfire will make it if the auto trans doesn't die first!
 
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 Originally Posted By: tomcat27
I've had an engine fail - and to this day I dont know the whole story - other than the main and rod bearings were excessively worn. It was a 1989 Jeep Comanche with the 4.0L engine. Here are the facts, but I dont know the real reason for failure: - I religiously changed the oil every 3k miles - lots of highway miles, towed alot. mostly a snowmobile trailer and sometimes a 3000 lb boat. - I had a Jeep tranny cooler installed - bought the truck used with about 17k miles on it - in 2000 the motor failed with approx 125k miles on it. I was running down the highway and it just bogged down. - 1 week prior to the engine failure, I had the oil pan replaced by an independent shop. pan was replaced due to rust thru. - prior to failure, the engine made no unusual noises and used no oil. - the truck only had idoit lights, so I cannot comment on the oil pressure leading up to failure so.... did the shop that replaced the oil pan reinstall the oil pump incorrectly? or did the motor just wear out? was its demised hastened by the original owner? I am fanatical about maintenance and was floored by the failure. yes, I had the actual engine rebuilt by Accurate Engines of GR MI and I personally put another 50k+ on it before selling it to a relative who really needed a truck. but to this day I still wonder.....
Sounds like fuel or ignition...not oil. How did you diagnose that it was oil related ? I would not think replacing oil pan requires any action on pump. I would have asked the shop to witness mid-stream teardown to examine fail modes myself, I did this on a tranny rebuild. In retrospect they showed me a sun gear starting to crumble but when I examined the pan only fine grounds..no chunks. So I paid for new sun gear. They are the experts but that just means they can fool you more easily.
 
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 Originally Posted By: buster
...is that modern engines are lasting longer than ever & often outlive the rest of the car. So what's all the fighting about? I run into people all the time that have well over 200k miles on their vehicles using Bill from Utah 5w-30. Maybe Bill is the voice of reason on the board. This is excluding extended drain intervals of course. It's funny too because with all the time I've spent on the board, I've never met anyone in my life that lost an engine from a lubrication failure.
I came here because I believed a bunch of bogus oil myths. It took about a year and a half before I finally saw the light. Now I come here because it is fun. Like I can't understand why people watch Nascars run in circles but I sure bet they can't understand why I look at UOA's of oil for engines that I don't even own. We all hoped that by coming here we would somehow discover that one magical oil...well we kinda have... For me its the brand name oil that meets my specs. Oh, and it has to be on sale too.
 
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