LoL ... if you were around here as long as me you'd know the answer. Why are you so pompus and belittling to everyone that doesn't bow down to your so called "supreme knowledge" that you brag about all the time ?
The great filter debate.
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Sorry again, but no, that's not how it works.
The onus is on you to justify your position.
The onus is not on me to disprove your position.
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Please explain to everyone reading this thread how 1000s of dyno tests done like Engineering Explained did all basically show the same thing ... simply that a more free flowing air filter can increase HP output at WOT.
Next thing that will be said is that cleaner oil doesn't result in less engine wear, or the earth is flat ...
Oh - I'm on board, I've seen lots of dyno data that support that with some cars/engines, you gain a small amount of top-end power with high-flow filters and/or aftermarket intakes. Just hard to give a lot of v. technical/detailed results/quantify it based on how the tests are run but for me, it's a $50 filter and if it helps me gain a few hp, I'm good with that level of detail here vs. I gained "4.56 (repeating) peak hp". I've always wanted to mess with my car on a dyno for a day testing intakes/filters b/c it's such a controversial topic on every car forum/FB group I'm part of and design a better test/control the variables better than a lot of the tests I've seen. The other bit is, if you run your car (no changes) on a dyno say 3-4 times, you will see variation in the range of what we are talking about here on some cars so that itself leads to a lot of questions.
Don't get me started on the flat Earth crazies....Please explain to everyone reading this thread how 1000s of dyno tests done like Engineering Explained did all basically show the same thing ... simply that a more free flowing air filter can increase HP output at WOT.
Next thing that will be said is that cleaner oil doesn't result in less engine wear, or the earth is flat ...
Here's where the skew comes in relative to the question regarding the filter.
The tire HP ( as measured by the dyno) is a direct product of the combustion and power from the cylinders ( assuming all other inputs nulled)
If the volume of air ( static) is the measured component contribution of the filter along with the fuel mixture and timing- then those factors come into play regarding any adjustment the computer may make which may affect the measurement of the filters contribution to the end HP.
Still have the same end HP and dyno but now the filter contribution in terms of air volume comes into question because if restriction is constant- the required volume comes from a change in velocity of movement through the media- not free SCFM.
Thats why those parameters are important because they have to be backed out to establish the true filter performance to the exclusion of other factors.
You "proved" it the first time I read the substance of your arguments. Being "around" doesn't carry much weight with me because if you didn't know it then- riding a clock doesn't change anything.
Now why are you resorting to baseless insults? Is your knowledge and position really so weak that this is all you have left?
Just curious
^^^ Post #66. The mass air flow sensor output will show if there is more airflow or not due to a less restrictive air filter. If the engine management system computer is doing it's job correctly, it will increase fuel to maintain the proper A/F ratio, and more cylinder charge will be obtained which results in more HP. Simple ICE stuff.
You're so full of yourself it's ridiculous ... it's becoming pretty laughable actually since you are so blinded that you routine miss the most simple logic there is. Oh well ... carry on ego man.
Yet you still didn't address anything, just more obfuscation, ad hom and avoidance.
and again, you totally miss the point that it can skew the actual design and measured conclusions of the specific test and would have to be controlled and measured.
You really don't have any real world concept of how this works and why these things are important in testing do you?
probably so
You again fail to read simple words and grasp simple logic because you're "superior genius" blinds you, lol. Re-read post #68 until the light bulb goes on.
You've got 2 stikes on two simple discussions ... this one and the cleaner oil debate. What's next?
Anyone that has an OBD2 scanner that can read the intake air mass flow meter (on a vehicle that uses one), do some WOT tests back-to-back with different flowing air filters and see how the air mass going into the engine changes. Or compare a new vs dirty filter at WOT of the same exact brand & model filter.
With all other factors constant (except engine management computer adjusting itself as a result in intake changes), a less restrictive air filter will give more airflow into the engine at WOT, which will result in more HP. Only time that wouldn't happen is if the stock air box/intake tube system is the flow choke point, or if the engine management system couldn't adjust fuel correctly with the intake flow change. Even then, you should still see some increase, but with optimum tuning it will be a larger increase than if the tuning was off a bit.
With all other factors constant (except engine management computer adjusting itself as a result in intake changes), a less restrictive air filter will give more airflow into the engine at WOT, which will result in more HP. Only time that wouldn't happen is if the stock air box/intake tube system is the flow choke point, or if the engine management system couldn't adjust fuel correctly with the intake flow change. Even then, you should still see some increase, but with optimum tuning it will be a larger increase than if the tuning was off a bit.
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I stick with an OE style filter, Fram always comes to mind for my oil and air filters. I say no thanks to air filters claiming to increase HP. There's usually a trade off, less filtration for more HP. UOA often shows more junk getting into the engine oil and often higher wear metals from poor air filtration. Flame suit on.
My UOAs support the opposite - v. low (single digit) wear metals and low silicone/insolubles.
As mentioned in most of these air filter threads, it also depends on where the less efficient filters are being used. K&N gauze & oiled type air filters are better used on paved race tracks rather than in the Baja 1000 for instance.
That's good, the vast majority I saw with the K&N type filters that you oil showed otherwise. Experts I spoke with over the years recommended against them as well, so I'll pass on the supposed HP increase for better filtration. Oh and last I looked something like a Fram air filter is cheaper too. I've I were racing a car, I might think otherwise, for daily driver, no thanks.
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