So to summarize you Pablo, FDRs New Deal was the worse thing to come out of The Great Republican Depression.
The Great Depression
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So to summarize you Pablo, FDRs New Deal was the worse thing to come out of The Great Republican Depression.
NOT exactly.
First:
Second Smoot-Hawley was enacted after the market dive, it just made things worse.
Hoover should at the very least stuck to his guns and had the rates minimized or threatened a veto - but since the country was indeed mostly farmers.....
It's interesting to note that our trading partners started retaliation even before it became law.
But indeed, the country did change to a people who somehow think the government is G0D and will provide for them no matter the crisis. Social Security is a (bad) example......but it was downhill from there.
our depression will happen when major foreign holders of US currencies liquidate their reserves, dropping the paper dollar to its intrinsic value.
I don't like to think about this stuff though, it's depressing. And people with crackpot theories about doom and destruction have been around forever and pretty much nothing they predict ever materializes.
I don't like to think about this stuff though, it's depressing. And people with crackpot theories about doom and destruction have been around forever and pretty much nothing they predict ever materializes.
The gold confiscation was interesting.
To answer the origional poster: in the 1930's many hundreds of smaller banks failed; most of the the larger big-city banks did not, in part because the US Govt bent some rules to keep them alive.
Today's FDIC actually has funds to make good about 2% (that's TWO percent) of the money currently on deposit. More funding for FDIC would probably be voted by Congress in a major emergency -- but that probably wouldn't help: times have changed since the 1930's. Today, all bank deposits would be honored -- repaid in full to any depositor who wanted his money back -- but they'd be repaid in near-worthless dollars. That $1000 you put into a bank last year would be returned to you, plus interest -- in currency so reduced in value it would now buy you only a Big Mac and cup of coffee. In 1920's Germany, life insurance companies continued to pay whatever the insurance amount was upon the holder's death -- but the currency had become so worthless that sometimes the postage stamp to mail the benefit check cost more (in worthless German Marks) than the amount of the life insurance check.
Extreme inflation (reduced value of the US $) is a greater threat today than an exact repeat of 1930's bank failures.
Today's FDIC actually has funds to make good about 2% (that's TWO percent) of the money currently on deposit. More funding for FDIC would probably be voted by Congress in a major emergency -- but that probably wouldn't help: times have changed since the 1930's. Today, all bank deposits would be honored -- repaid in full to any depositor who wanted his money back -- but they'd be repaid in near-worthless dollars. That $1000 you put into a bank last year would be returned to you, plus interest -- in currency so reduced in value it would now buy you only a Big Mac and cup of coffee. In 1920's Germany, life insurance companies continued to pay whatever the insurance amount was upon the holder's death -- but the currency had become so worthless that sometimes the postage stamp to mail the benefit check cost more (in worthless German Marks) than the amount of the life insurance check.
Extreme inflation (reduced value of the US $) is a greater threat today than an exact repeat of 1930's bank failures.
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Oh ..so Kunery ..if you take the falling dollar ...the national debt..the consumer debt ...all the other debts ..take our per capita income ...
..we're all losing ground even if we're the (cough-cough) winners?? Tell me you lie!!!
..we're all losing ground even if we're the (cough-cough) winners?? Tell me you lie!!!
Not exactly is right. Spin City Pablo. Nice bunch of liberals that supported prohibition. 1.) The Ku Klux Klan - big liberals
So yes, pretty close to exactly. FDRs New Deal(basically a type of system EVERY developed society has in order to function) is in your opinion, the worse thing to come out of the Great REPUBLICAN Depression.
As far as big business(uh-oh more liberals
One of the big problems was there wasn't "socialist" institutions like FDIC insurance to promote confidence. It's something that we now know is extremely necessary for developed societies to function but I never even heard of the most hard core right wing wackos want to get rid of that sort of socialism. Maybe I've just haven't noticed.
Pablo understands.
Who cares what groups backed and didn't back former legislation for whatever reasons?
Socialism has failed in just about every instance one can point to. Redistribution of wealth, which is necessary for socialism to function, will eventually do just what it is intended to do...which is put an end to the free market and personal freedoms. It also takes people down, and not up.
The freeloader may feel he is getting a great deal, but the reality is that he is only sinking further and further into the muck.
Some let their emotions blind them from the reality of things...others simply don't have the facilities to realize it.
Who cares what groups backed and didn't back former legislation for whatever reasons?
Socialism has failed in just about every instance one can point to. Redistribution of wealth, which is necessary for socialism to function, will eventually do just what it is intended to do...which is put an end to the free market and personal freedoms. It also takes people down, and not up.
The freeloader may feel he is getting a great deal, but the reality is that he is only sinking further and further into the muck.
Some let their emotions blind them from the reality of things...others simply don't have the facilities to realize it.
I agree. I can see no scenario where the massive debt of the government will not lead to our financial collapse in not too many years. Out leaders somehow feel that Monopoly Money will save us.
When the Dollar drops 35% in value in 18 month..its more than a wakeup call. And Congress sleeps on.
You may be painting with too wide a brush Pabs. The Hoover Dam and others built by the Government during the Depression did as much to win WWII as any other event. The government was careful to allow the revenue of electricity to pay for the projects.
Social Security would have worked had the Government not taken the money and put in worthless paper IOU's. Also the scope of SS changed as the Government tried to be all things to all people. Out wealth in the 50's allowed the Government to feel it could provide the good life to all regardless if they worked for it or not.
We are now in a position where Political parties on both sides promise the good life in exchange for votes. And again its being done by issuing soon to be worthless paper (government bonds). Foreign countries are in the process of figuring it out. Currency traders already have.
On the bright side my GLD is up 19% in the last 10 weeks.
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Yes, Jaybird. The rapid accumulation and redistribution of cost/debt has proven a far better method of economic governess. There you just pretend to have a viable economy.
Kernel - you missed my point completely. You didn't even address it. You just call some people (me?) names and stuff.
Al wrote:
Perhaps you are correct. What FDR and his European fed advisers did was put in place, or rather start in the USA, a culture that the government will save us from ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. I have nothing per se against BPA, FDIC, SS (well that is still stupid, but that's another thread about how much money of MINE they have taken and turned to nothing).....anyway carry on. It's pretty clear that lots of folks are perfectly happy in a nanny state.
Al wrote:
Perhaps you are correct. What FDR and his European fed advisers did was put in place, or rather start in the USA, a culture that the government will save us from ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. I have nothing per se against BPA, FDIC, SS (well that is still stupid, but that's another thread about how much money of MINE they have taken and turned to nothing).....anyway carry on. It's pretty clear that lots of folks are perfectly happy in a nanny state.
Perhaps slavery can be reinstated, and those who choose to be slaves will be taken care of by the nanny state.
China is doing quite well with a free market system these days. They just need to enforce the honesty part of the system, where something has to be what you say it is.
China is doing quite well with a free market system these days. They just need to enforce the honesty part of the system, where something has to be what you say it is.
Oh yea..you know I'm 100% with ya there.
We could use a little of that honesty thing over here as well.
"Turning a country from neighbor helping neighbor, self supporting, states rights country into a nanny state was the real start of the downhill slope."
Is that some sort of conservative Sunday school pablum, with misty eyed people thinking of the good ole days of the Great Depression ? The New Deal came about because neighbor wasn't helping neighbor. The Crash happened at the end of the decade where the Klan had large marches in Washington DC, and here in the Pacific NW too. Labor strife was high, it extended thru the end of WWII, with the National Guard manning machine guns at coal mines, Ford goons clashing with unions, and railroad bulls beating hitchhikers off of trains. Unemployment hit something 25% and didn't drop much below 10% to 15% until wartime production. Shanty towns everywhere, and lots of people migrating out of the dust bowel. Banks collapsing, taking with it people's savings.
People couldn't take much more of 'neighbor helping neighbor' and 'free market forces'. 'Free market forces' meant no electricity outside of cities as it wasn't as profitable running lines in rural areas, and it took the rural electrification program to correct it. The farther outside of cities that you get, the more you rely upon state and federal subsidy of rail, roads, electricty, water, timber, mining, forage land, etc.
Our local post office and library were WPA projects, as was the major mountain/skiing lodge in the area. The major dams in the area are also New deal era projects, dams which eventually fueled Hanford.
Is that some sort of conservative Sunday school pablum, with misty eyed people thinking of the good ole days of the Great Depression ? The New Deal came about because neighbor wasn't helping neighbor. The Crash happened at the end of the decade where the Klan had large marches in Washington DC, and here in the Pacific NW too. Labor strife was high, it extended thru the end of WWII, with the National Guard manning machine guns at coal mines, Ford goons clashing with unions, and railroad bulls beating hitchhikers off of trains. Unemployment hit something 25% and didn't drop much below 10% to 15% until wartime production. Shanty towns everywhere, and lots of people migrating out of the dust bowel. Banks collapsing, taking with it people's savings.
People couldn't take much more of 'neighbor helping neighbor' and 'free market forces'. 'Free market forces' meant no electricity outside of cities as it wasn't as profitable running lines in rural areas, and it took the rural electrification program to correct it. The farther outside of cities that you get, the more you rely upon state and federal subsidy of rail, roads, electricty, water, timber, mining, forage land, etc.
Our local post office and library were WPA projects, as was the major mountain/skiing lodge in the area. The major dams in the area are also New deal era projects, dams which eventually fueled Hanford.
Boy you guys sure can twist things and the twisting continues. I maintain there is nothing wrong with cooperation, there is everything wrong with dependence.
Modern transport technologies eliminate many of the causes of the Depression. If farming fails, you can ship in food from around the world, at very low cost. People are more mobile, because of planes and buses. If a city suffers unemployment, people don't have to rig up their horse and cariage and spend three weeks crossing the country to move away. They can look for work or housing on the Internet, instead of having to rely on printed advertising that might be weeks out of date.
The only factor that's the same is human nature. Sometimes people go nuts on a large scale.
Was that a Communist/Terrorist I just saw.....?
The only factor that's the same is human nature. Sometimes people go nuts on a large scale.
Was that a Communist/Terrorist I just saw.....?
My opinion, which nobody asked for, is that when things swing in one direction or another, it's usually becasue what immediately preceded the swing wasn't working very well.
I think you have to somehow find a balance between dog-eat-dog laissez faire situations and socialist tendencies. Putting too much trust in either is a mistake.
I think you have to somehow find a balance between dog-eat-dog laissez faire situations and socialist tendencies. Putting too much trust in either is a mistake.
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