quote:Right now, as far as I'm concerned, there is only ONE Castrol 0w30 being sold by Castrol North America, and it's made in Germany and is nothing but Formula SLX bottled as Syntec. Anything else on the shelves is either (1) the old yellow label domestically produced 0w30, or (2) domestically produced 0w30 that got the new Syntec label before the German stuff hit the market. Only time will tell how this "German 0w30" is going to play out.
Originally posted by YZF150: Right. But, 1. That language on the website now cannot be truthfully referring to the German oil because the German oil is not GF-3, and 2. Are we to believe that the domestically produced Syntec 0w-30 has been reformulated? It couldn't comply with all of those specs before, could it?
The German Castrol
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Just to clear things up, here's a look at the evolution of the Castrol Syntec labels:
The first Syntec label, back when Syntec was PAO:
The next Syntec label also brought a new bottle. This label is what you will usually see on the "yellow label" 0w30:
This is the newest Syntec label. If there is some red label 0w30 with Made in USA on the back, my theory is that domestic 0w30 got this new label along with the other grades before the German stuff started being imported. The German 0w30 uses this new label, obviously.
The next Syntec label also brought a new bottle. This label is what you will usually see on the "yellow label" 0w30:
This is the newest Syntec label. If there is some red label 0w30 with Made in USA on the back, my theory is that domestic 0w30 got this new label along with the other grades before the German stuff started being imported. The German 0w30 uses this new label, obviously.
quote:I am not sure if the basic SLX is being discontinued in Europe, but there are currently at least four different Castrol SLX oils in Europe. I pulled the info below from Castrol.pl (Castrol's Polish website), but I'm sure it could be found on other European pages as well. Afterall, these oils are not made in Poland; they're just sold there. I thought I'd put it in a table for easier comparison.
Originally posted by YZF150: I wonder if Castrol is dumping the German SLX in North America because they just want to get rid of it. Is it no longer considered a top-tier oil in Europe? Have they quit making it?
code:SLX GM was developed to meet the requirements of GM (Opel) cars in Europe running on 30,000 km intervals (gas), or 50,000 km intervals (diesel), or flex-service intervals. SLX FE was developed to meet the requirements of BMW NG (new generation) engines, whatever they are. SLX Long Life II was developed for the needs of VW/Audi engines on long life extended drain intervals.SLX SLX GM SLX LL01 FE SLX Longlife II . Visc grade: SAE 0W-30 SAE 0W-30 SAE 0W-30 SAE 0W-30 . Class: API SL/CF, API SL/CF n/a n/a ACEA A3/B3/B4 ACEA A3/B3/B4 . Specs: VW 502 00, GM-LL-A-025; BMW Long-Life VW 503.00, 505 00, 503 01, GM-LL-B025 01 FE 506.00, 506.01 MB 229.1/MB 229.3, BMW Long Life-01, Porsche . . [email protected] C 12,1 mm2/s 12,2 mm2/s 9,85 mm2/s 10,1 mm2/s [email protected] C 69,0 mm2/s 72,0 mm2/s 55,04 mm2/s 55,3 mm2/s [email protected] C 3,58 mPas n/a 3,0 mPas n/a Visc Index 184 167 167 174 TBN 11,5 mg KOH/g 10,3 mg KOH/g 10,8 mg KOH/g 10,2 mg KOH/g Pour Point -57 C -54 C -54 C n/a Flash Point 201 C 234 C 234 C n/a [email protected] 840,0 kg/m3 840 kg/m3 840 kg/m3 844 kg/m3
I have noticed that people are already saying good stuff about the German 0W30 Castrol-that there is less noise when they start up their engines. Of course, UOAs of the German Castrol are not yet available, but the early signs look good.
I think this is an indication that we need to be able to buy the European motor oils. The European motor oils must meet higher standards than American motor oils. The only American motor oils that can compare to the European are probably Schaeffer's Oil, Redline, Amsoil, Mobil 1 and Delvac for diesel engines.
Conventional American motor oils would probably be good only for older cars and trucks and vehicles with worn engines. Trying to compare conventional American motor oils with the European motor oils would probably be like trying to compare water with the finest wine.
The more you learn about modern oils, one thing becomes painfully obvious: there are very few oils sold in the US that meet the OEM performance requirements of virtually any European car maker. There is only ONE oil that you can buy off the shelf at Wal-Mart (Mobil 1 0w40) that meets the requirements of the VW Group (Audi, VW, Bentley), the BMW Group (BMW, Mini, Rolls-Royce), Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, Aston Martin, and GM of Europe. All of these cars come from the factory with either synthetic or synthetic blend oils that meet ACEA specs that even the best OTC conventional oil sold in the US couldn't even touch.
Why the disparity between what's commonly available in the US and what's required in Europe? My theory is that in Europe, the car makers dictate the performance requirements of the oils, hence that's why you've got oil makers (like Castrol, for example) who sell certain oils branded to meet the specs of certain car makers (along with oils that meet the specs of multiple car makers). In the US, the car makers don't have much input into the performance standards of oils. The API is in the driver's seat, and when it comes to standards, they are currently wrestling with issues that were dealt with a decade ago in Europe.
quote:Well, if you look at the wording on the back of the German Syntec bottle, they more or less are: "Improved European formula specially formulated to meet the needs of high performance engines." Also, take a look at this e-mail from Castrol that Dr. T posted back in February. He'd questioned Castrol about the German made 0w30 and their initial response was that they didn't have any info on Castrol oils sold outside North American. Dr. T followed up, explaining about the "Made in Germany" Syntec, and this was the response he got: Well, I was certainly out of the loop on this one! I apologize for the misinformation, and here are the facts. Yes, the Syntec 0W-30 does come from Germany. As it already existed there, we decided to take advantage of that production source. Color differences are common and are usually due to different additive sources, but this should not be a cause for concern. The base stock of the 0W-30 oil is PAO. In this unique low temperature application, it was found that PAO was the best way to go. As to the Typical Inspection Data, that appears below. If you do not receive it in a legible chart format, please advise and I will either mail or fax it if you will give us that number. Once again, thank you for writing and for allowing me to clarify the issue, for both of us. Your interest in Castrol products is greatly appreciated. Lynn Hansen Reference: 130544
Originally posted by YZF150: It would, but would they dare do it? It would be a tacit admission that their other Syntecs, the Group III, so-called "synthetics", were inferior.
quote:No. My theory about the red label 0w30 is that it's what's left over of the domestic production that, along with the other grades of Syntec, got the new label. This was before they started importing the German 0w30. Hence, what you're seeing with the red label "Made in USA" 0w30 is OLD STOCK, just like the yellow label stuff.
Originally posted by YZF150: Is it your belief, then, that this oil is here to stay? Are you suggesting that the 0w-30 red label that now says "Made in USA", in conjunction with the new language on the website, refers to a domestically-produced SLX?
G, I hear you, but I'm having a hard time reconciling that with the website language which would exclude the Group III version of the oil.
And, if the bottle label refers to A3, VW, BMW, and MB, and the oil in that bottle is indeed the old stuff, then it is clearly misbranded and illegal.
quote:The web site language DOES refer to the German stuff (with the exception of GF-3; they made a boo-boo there). Just because there are still some bottles of old stock out there on the shelves doesn't mean the ad copy on the web site has to reflect THOSE specs. If they are only shipping the German stuff from the distribution points now, then that is what they are advertising. Of course, all this speculation would go right out the window if we were to see a "Made in USA" 0w30 label that was identical in every way to the "Made in Germany" label with the exception of the country of origin.
Originally posted by YZF150: G, I hear you, but I'm having a hard time reconciling that with the website language which would exclude the Group III version of the oil. And, if the bottle label refers to A3, VW, BMW, and MB, and the oil in that bottle is indeed the old stuff, then it is clearly misbranded and illegal.
quote:Any oil like what? If my theory is correct, the "red label" 0w30 that's made domestically WON'T have the same specs on the back label that the German made 0w30 does. The front label may appear identical, or it may have "0w30" in red plus the Starburst (since the yellow label 0w30 did have the Starburst). The only thing I've seen at my AutoZone is the old yellow label stuff and the new German stuff.
Originally posted by YZF150: Agree. Do we know if there is any oil like that yet on the shelves? Gotta get a VOA on it if there is.
quote:Yes, but I think when all the smoke clears, the only thing left on the shelves will be 0w30 "Made in Germany." I don't think there is or will be a domestic SLX.
Originally posted by YZF150: By identical, I mean a domesitic SLX. If the label states the same specs as the German oil does, but the only difference is that it now says "Made in USA", then we'd expect it to be SLX oil.
Right now, as far as I'm concerned, there is only ONE Castrol 0w30 being sold by Castrol North America, and it's made in Germany and is nothing but Formula SLX bottled as Syntec. Anything else on the shelves is either (1) the old yellow label domestically produced 0w30, or (2) domestically produced 0w30 that got the new Syntec label before the German stuff hit the market.
G, I just don't think that this assumption is correct. It certainly appears that, at Autozone stores at least, that there are both German and US-domestic Syntec 0w-30 oils for sale, in similarly-labeled bottles.
Perhaps the website information is what Castrol intends to be the case in future, if and when all the domestic stuff is sold off, but, clearly, right now, that US-made oil does not comply with the specs in their on-line advertising.
quote:Actually, (2) above would account for seeing domestic and German 0w30 on the shelves with the same (new) Syntec label.
Originally posted by YZF150: Right now, as far as I'm concerned, there is only ONE Castrol 0w30 being sold by Castrol North America, and it's made in Germany and is nothing but Formula SLX bottled as Syntec. Anything else on the shelves is either (1) the old yellow label domestically produced 0w30, or (2) domestically produced 0w30 that got the new Syntec label before the German stuff hit the market. G, I just don't think that this assumption is correct. It certainly appears that, at Autozone stores at least, that there are both German and US-domestic Syntec 0w-30 oils for sale, in similarly-labeled bottles.
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quote:Where are you getting this information? The ILSAC GF-3 fuel economy test procedure says that all oils are tested against the same 5W-30 reference oil, with the various viscosities meeting different percentages of fuel economy improvement. I'd guess the SLX would have little trouble meeting this GF-3 test.
Originally posted by G-Man II: The fact that Mobil 1 0w40 is GF-3/energy conserving is irrelevant. The reference oil it would have to beat to attain that rating would be a Xw40. The reference oil that the SLX would have to beat would be a Xw30. And with a vis at 100°C of 12.2, I doubt if it could do it.
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