What's so special about Mobil 1 0w40?

Messages
8,937
Location
SC
We all know that Mobil 1 0w40 meets all the toughest European OEM extended drain specs, but what is about the oil that enables it to meet those specs? Looking at the VOAs of all the grades of Mobil 1, the only real difference as far as additives is the 0w40 has more calcium. And except for the 15w50, the 0w40 would have a higher HT/HS, giving it the A3 rating. But is that it? Is it the higher HT/HS vis that gives the 0w40 the "edge" when it comes to the tough European OEM requirements?  -
 
Messages
8,756
Location
RI
Special? It was created for lazy people like me who don't want to switch oil weights for weather conditions. Now, I only have to stock '1' weight of oil for every car in the driveway year round [Big Grin] Also, when you figure out the amount of oil that I absorb through the skin, the extra calcium will help build stronger bones!
 
Messages
500
Location
Vermont
VOA's, unfortunately, are essentially worthless when trying to figure out how good an oil is. It is more dependent on the base oils and how functional the additives are. That being said, the 0W-40 Mobil 1 has an impressive list of manufacturer specs it meets, but at the same time, the few OUA's here show it to be nothing special.
 

G-MAN

Thread starter
Messages
8,937
Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by nicrfe1370: VOA's, unfortunately, are essentially worthless when trying to figure out how good an oil is. It is more dependent on the base oils and how functional the additives are. That being said, the 0W-40 Mobil 1 has an impressive list of manufacturer specs it meets, but at the same time, the few OUA's here show it to be nothing special.
I think you're missing my point. Mobil had to begin with base oils and additives to create an oil to meet the specs. Looking at the VOAs, all grades of Mobil 1 seem to be essentially identical as far as additives go. And from what I've seen of the 0w40 UOAs, it's posted some impressive numbers.
 

G-MAN

Thread starter
Messages
8,937
Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by Pablo: I think it IS the base stock.
I'm not so sure. I think all grades of Mobil 1 use the same three basic base stocks, but in different proportions. I honestly think the HT/HS of the 0w40 is the deciding factor in meeting those OEM requirements. Disregarding that, I think any grade of Mobil 1 could go the distance with the 0w40. 3MP's test of the 5w30 is bearing that out.
 
Messages
951
Location
Loveland, Colorado
G-Man II, I think it's a combination of both the more protective HT/HS rating & the energy-saving GF-3 rating. It's my impression that European car makers have always been more concerned than US makers with conserving all resources, not just gasoline. A fuel-efficient, A3/B3-rated oil fits that outlook perfectly. Amsoil may have some oils which meet both of these seemingly opposite goals, but I don't think they've been "certified" to carry the approvals. Are there any other A3/B3 oils which are also labeled as fuel efficient oils? I'm not familiar enough with Euro oils to know which other brands meet what requirements.
 

G-MAN

Thread starter
Messages
8,937
Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by Eiron: G-Man II, I think it's a combination of both the more protective HT/HS rating & the energy-saving GF-3 rating. It's my impression that European car makers have always been more concerned than US makers with conserving all resources, not just gasoline. A fuel-efficient, A3/B3-rated oil fits that outlook perfectly. Amsoil may have some oils which meet both of these seemingly opposite goals, but I don't think they've been "certified" to carry the approvals. Are there any other A3/B3 oils which are also labeled as fuel efficient oils? I'm not familiar enough with Euro oils to know which other brands meet what requirements.
I don't think GF-3 means squat to the European OEMs, since it's strictly a US spec/rating. There are only 6 oils currently made that meet 229.5, and Mobil 1 0w40 is the only one with the GF-3 rating. Keep in mind that A5 is the ACEA "fuel efficiency" rating.
 
Messages
4,945
Location
VA
quote:
Originally posted by G-Man II: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Eiron: [qb] G-Man II, There are only 6 oils currently made that meet 229.5, and Mobil 1 0w40 is the only one with the GF-3 rating. Keep in mind that A5 is the ACEA "fuel efficiency" rating.
Which 6 oils meet the 229.5 rating? thanks, Gary
 

G-MAN

Thread starter
Messages
8,937
Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by Gebo: Which 6 oils meet the 229.5 rating?
Aral SuperTronic M SAE 5w30 Elf Excellium 229.5 5w30 Fuchs Titan Supersyn SL MB SAE 5w30 (First 229.5 factory fill oil.) Mobil 1 0w40 (Factory fill on all AMG models.) Shell Helix Ultra AB SAE 5w30 Total Quartz 229.5 5w30
 
Messages
951
Location
Loveland, Colorado
quote:
Originally posted by G-Man II: I don't think GF-3 means squat to the European OEMs, since it's strictly a US spec/rating. There are only 6 oils currently made that meet 229.5, Aral SuperTronic M SAE 5w30 Elf Excellium 229.5 5w30 Fuchs Titan Supersyn SL MB SAE 5w30 (First 229.5 factory fill oil.) Mobil 1 0w40 (Factory fill on all AMG models.) Shell Helix Ultra AB SAE 5w30 Total Quartz 229.5 5w30 and Mobil 1 0w40 is the only one with the GF-3 rating. Keep in mind that A5 is the ACEA "fuel efficiency" rating.
Exactly!! First, let's look at the summary wording for the MB 229.5 spec, "...for passenger cars with gas and diesel engines with extended drain intervals beyond 229.3 oils, to 30,000 km, min 1.8% fuel saving..." Now, look at these other oils you've listed. They're all 5W-30s! Are they also all A5-rated? What are their HT/HS numbers? ACEA only requires fuel savings for oils meeting A1/B1 & A5/B5 (as compared to reference oil RL191, which is a 15W-40). Since M1 0W-40 is A3/B3 rated, no fuel savings is specified under ACEA guidelines. And since the MB 229.5 spec requires a minimum of 1.8% fuel savings, the only way Mobil can show 0W-40 meets this and A3/B3 is by also meeting GF-3. [ May 31, 2003, 11:58 PM: Message edited by: Eiron ]
 

G-MAN

Thread starter
Messages
8,937
Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by Eiron: Now, look at these other oils you've listed. They're all 5W-30s! Are they also all A5-rated?
No. The baseline for 229.3 and 229.5 is A3.
 
Messages
951
Location
Loveland, Colorado
So what are we doing? Playing 20 Questions?
quote:
Originally posted by G-Man II: ... Mobil 1 0w40 meets all the toughest European OEM extended drain specs ... There are only 6 oils currently made that meet 229.5 ... The baseline for 229.3 and 229.5 is A3.
I have to assume that you mean 229.3 & 229.5 are "the toughest European OEM extended drain specs" (since you haven't identified any others). If 229.3 & 229.5 both use ACEA A3 as a baseline (where can I get a copy of these MB specs?), & require 1% & 1.8% fuel economy increases (respectively) over 229.1 oils (typically 40wt oils; am I reading this correctly?), then the MB specs answer your question for you. All the other M1 oils either don't meet the A3 base requirement or don't meet the fuel economy improvement requirement. Which brings us back to my original comment, "... it's a combination of both the more protective HT/HS rating & the energy-saving GF-3 rating. ..." (Whether or not Euro OEMs care about GF-3 is irrelevant, because the results are the same.) But if you're that familiar with the MB specs, I have to assume you already know all of this. Right?
 

G-MAN

Thread starter
Messages
8,937
Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by Eiron: If 229.3 & 229.5 both use ACEA A3 as a baseline (where can I get a copy of these MB specs?), & require 1% & 1.8% fuel economy increases (respectively) over 229.1 oils (typically 40wt oils; am I reading this correctly?), then the MB specs answer your question for you. All the other M1 oils either don't meet the A3 base requirement ...
With the exception of Mobil 1 15w50, the other grades of Mobil 1 don't meet A3; they are A5. I don't see what the big deal is. Mobil 1 0w40 just happens to meet 229.5 AND GF-3. That doesn't mean it meets the fuel economy requirements of 229.5 BECAUSE it's GF-3. That's an assumption on your part.
 
Messages
9,448
Location
USA
G-MannII I agree with you that it must be the ratio of each of the base stocks. Te HT/HS number must be a result of the ratio of each base stock as the additive package has remained the essentialy the same. I also have noticed that the best UOA numbers comeing from vechiles running M1 are usualy running the 10W30. I use 15W50 above 32 degrees and 10W30 below 32 degrees so the 0W40 really means nothing to me. You would think that since the 5W30 and 10W30 oils are the most popular her in North America that they would work on bringing these oils up to 229.3, 229.5, A3/B3 spec. It seems like this would make good sense from a marketing stand point!
 
Messages
951
Location
Loveland, Colorado
quote:
Originally posted by G-Man II: With the exception of Mobil 1 15w50, the other grades of Mobil 1 don't meet A3; they are A5.
Yes, I agree; I've also already said this.
quote:
Originally posted by G-Man II: I don't see what the big deal is. Mobil 1 0w40 just happens to meet 229.5 AND GF-3.
Yes, I agree (both statements). It's possible that the other five oils on your list also meet GF-3, but since they're not globally marketed, there's probably little reason for the manufacturers to got to the trouble & expense of having them certified.
quote:
Originally posted by G-Man II: That doesn't mean it meets the fuel economy requirements of 229.5 BECAUSE it's GF-3. That's an assumption on your part.
I never made this assumption; I'm sorry if my statements aren't as clear as they should be. The fact that it meets 229.5 means that it meets the fuel economy requirements of 229.5. The fact that it meets GF-3 means that it meets the fuel economy requirements of GF-3. Since I don't have the MB specs, I wasn't originally aware there were fuel economy requirements in them. I'm sorry, I guess I don't understand your point here & I'm just confusing the issue. You're only asking about the Mobil 1 line, right? Perhaps you could identify which Euro OEM requirements you're talking about. Then, if you have the data for those specs, you could provide the info for the rest of us to review.
 

G-MAN

Thread starter
Messages
8,937
Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by Eiron: I'm sorry, I guess I don't understand your point here & I'm just confusing the issue. You're only asking about the Mobil 1 line, right? Perhaps you could identify which Euro OEM requirements you're talking about. Then, if you have the data for those specs, you could provide the info for the rest of us to review.
My point was simply this: Mobil 1 0w40 meets all the toughest European OEM oil requirements, yet the additive package is pretty much identical to the other grades of Mobil 1 for sale in the U.S. Therefore, my original question: "What's so special about the 0w40?" as in "What is it about the 0w40 that makes it capable of meeting the extended drain requirements of European OEMs where (presumably) the other grades of Mobil 1 can't?" The only distinguishing feature of 0w40 is its higher HT/HS numbers and the A3 rating (disregarding the 15w50). Therefore, my answer to my own question is the A3 rating is what makes the 0w40 "so special." Apart from that, ANY grade of Mobil 1 can "go the distance" with the 0w40. As for what OEM specs I'm referring to, they are clearly stated on the Mobil 1 0w40 label: MB 229.5 BMW LongLife 01 Porsche approved GM-LL-A-025, GM-LL-B-025 Volkswagen/Audi 502.00/505.00/503.01 As to what these specs actually require, I don't know. And it's really irrelevant to my original question.
 
Messages
33,974
Location
Southern NJ
I think it is definitely the HT/HS of the 0w-40 that allows it to meet all of these European requirements. I think it would also make sense that if they average 10k mile drains, you really want an oil with a higher HT/HS to keep it in grade as long as possible. This leads me to my point earlier thay Mobil's line of oils is as every bit as good as the european oils, in terms of the quality of the chemistry. But for long drains, Mobil would have to just thicken there oil up a bit ( a cut in CAFE and MPG) to meet the A3 ratings. So the bottom line as I see it, is it's really not a lower quality issue, it's more of a CAFE/MPG vs European Long Drain requirements. So the 0w-40 oil uses the same chemistry as the other M1 SS oils, its just thicker and therefore meets the A3 spec. The Castrol looks good, but it might not be as good as the Mobil in terms of chemistry. [ June 01, 2003, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: buster ]
 

G-MAN

Thread starter
Messages
8,937
Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by buster: The Castrol looks good, but it might not be as good as the Mobil in terms of chemistry.
Maybe, maybe not. Castrol introduced the SLX in 99, and it was on the cutting edge then. As I have speculated, and MolaKule has confirmed, the base oil make up of the SLX has to be predominately esters. The additive chemistry as revealed in my VOA is rather ordinary, but because of the base oil, it doesn't have to be otherwise. I'm not knocking Mobil 1, but IMO, as far as premier European oils go, they were playing "catch up" with Castrol when they reformulated and introduced SuperSyn. It was only with the SuperSyn formulation that the 0w40 attained all these OEM extended drain approvals.
 
Top