Sure; happy to do so. By the way, my post had quotes around the satement. It was from the UK Faraday Institution.
Regarding repurposing, please refer to page 20 of this article.
The EV battery discussion thread (bogus breakthroughs)
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Regarding repurposing, please refer to page 20 of this article.
Lets examine that
If someone needs a DC power closet that takes up a lot of space and at a minimum needs a pallet mule to move and has the need defined by this criteria.. ( as stated in the ad)
We tested many modules charged to 4.2v/cell and discharged down to 2.8v/cell and got around 75-80ah. You are getting balanced modules with a ton of life left that have not been too degraded and abused like we are used to seeing with many EV packs.
There are many expensive relays, fuses, resistors, cooling systems (which you can probably reuse), copper, aluminum, steel, PCB, connectors, disconnects, etc. There is close to $1000 worth of parts you can sell if you don't need them.
The battery modules are beautiful and one of the most solid, well built modules we have seen. Holding one you can tell it is built to last.
What kind of "huge market" in terms of demand and longevity is there for this 'stuff"? What happens when people get enough "stuff"?
You mean explaining a vague nondescript answer by showing an article with the same repackaged verbiage?
See the 2 main points in post 62 and give something specific in terms of market size, usage and life expectancy ( other market).
That's not a claim or a legitimate plan- that's a word salad for the sole purpose of making a puff piece more acceptable. No legitimate substance whatsoever.
Now, lets have that one legitimate use.
Don't forget entropy and loss. The cow cannot live on its own milk forever. That's right up there with perpetual energy, cold fusion and Quantum Blue and the zero loss additive package.
There is no free lunch here.
Only a series of compromises one being if your vehicle is now some sort of backup its essentially tied to the house and you lose use of a 30-70K assets vs a far less expensive dedicated power source.
I was building dog grooming vans for a few people and I had an amazing amount of people ask me why I wasn't using these nonsensical free energy claptraps. A surprising number of people believe in these things, people you would think should know better.
At some point I put up 10K to one poster to show up with one at my shop and let me test it - of course nothing ever showed up.
These words sounded somewhat interesting. Were they somehow off limits, already used somewhere else or just kool, aid, puff and piece?
Go read posts 31 &32 in context and follow along the rest of the discourse
I do not agree with your opinion of the article I posted.
Here are some current day examples:
In Japan, Nissan repurposed batteries to power streetlights.
Renault has batteries backing up elevators in Paris.
GM is backing up its data center in Michigan with used Chevy Volt batteries.
2nd Life project with used BMW batteries for balancing the grid. Vattenfall, BMW and Bosch test electricity storage with repurposed EV batteries in Hamburg.
2,600 used battery modules from over 100 electric vehicles are being merged to form a large electricity storage facility in Hamburg
The stored energy is available within seconds and can help to keep the electricity grid stable
The point is, recycling batteries is expensive.
Single use is economically and environmentally a loser.
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Toyota did this with 200 repurposed Camry hybrid batteries.
Imagine the possibilities with millions of repurposed batteries in places off the grid.
Toyota Yellowstone Project
Imagine the possibilities with millions of repurposed batteries in places off the grid.
Toyota Yellowstone Project
I have said it a thousand times (guess no one listens to me) but for "urban dwellers"....more than 99% of driving each day will fall within an EV's capabilities. To say range is an issue is just plain wrong. Now price being too high......yeah I'll agee. But as for me, I'm a 2 car family. We could easily live with one EV and for the occasional trip, would use the ICE.
Towing? That's absurd. We are at best, talkling about small commuter cars. No one is advocating making trucks that tow an EV.
Of course not but only because you cant refute it in any legitimate way and refuse to acknowledge the obvious.
The problem with all these 'carefully crafted vague uses" is that there is no current NEED of them ( they are not replacing anything of significance or showing any kind of benefit) they are simply "invented" and given the puff treatment because they show something "good" other than a landfill of dead batteries.
So, lets capture all the costs of these 'uses" ( up front and of course who pays for them) and then do a proper benefit analysis to see how much "value add' they really have.
If they were that great and plentiful ( plentiful in a need big enough to sustain all the repurposing) then why are they just now being built?
Its like finding a solution to problems that don't exist so we can say nice things about big dead batteries in order to force feed them to the sheeple while convincing them its somehow "good' when they get the bill.
They mean FOR a second- basically useless. ( you might benefit in learning how to do load calculations to see how little benefit that really is)
Millions you say? How much is that going to cost up front for dollar of savings and the ROI?
You asked for a use. I gave you numerous.
You offer your opinions; my responses are real world.
If you think there is no current need, I suggest you consider the vast places on our earth that have no electric grid.
Energy storage coupled with renewable energy sources such as solar are the most cost effective way to bring power to these places.
Where I live, off grid storage is becomming more attractive due to shortages and the growth of solar.
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No, you gave me made up ( not by you obviously) applications that are of no real consequence as one offs basically used to sell a concept with no real substance or actual value in the real world.
Kids come up with good "ideas' and cute projects all the time to get praise but they don't solve the worlds real problems. Neither will any of the ones in that paper.
I know personally. I have lived on man camps all over the world in arctic, communist countries, deserts and in combat so I don't need a class about not having trees to plug curling irons in.
Conversely, I also know what it really takes in terms of power generation to get power there and maintain it indefinitely. A hand full of half dead batteries is just a pipe dream unless the end goal is to power a bug light.
There is NOTHING "cost effective" about ANY green energy. (If there was, it would generate a profit and not have to be subsidized and forced on people)
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My friend is getting a 3 this December, and I can't wait to ride in it. He had a Supra years ago he street raced around here. I fly electric RC planes and we need better batteries too but sometimes it beats getting a nitro engine going. My point is GASOLINE ROAD TAX. Heard anything about how the gubment is going to make em pay? Bad enuf when I paid $3000 in tax incentives to everyone who bought an EV, now I gotta pay for their road ???
Ah you have the misconception (among many others)
that the hobby battery market is like the pc market of 1999 where pc makers tried to force feed new machines by making 3 month old machines uselessly out of date.
If peak battery were to occur you would have the same stagnation and commoditization that happened to the pc market where computers became $9.99 handheld toys every 5 year old carries instead of an uncommon rarely replaced tool of learning and business.
I could only hope such a thing could happen but the rate that used batteries enter that market is never likely to be fast enough to satisfy demand,
hence brand new hobby batteries will continue to be sold and if more BEV cast offs do become available it will just result in the classic problem of “escalation “ whereby there will never be enough.
More is always better right?
The main trouble with BEVs is that like computers a 5 year old unit despite doing exactly what it did 5 years ago won’t be good enough and is dated and passé to the target audience.
That is why I can buy a used plug in
in good shape for $2000 but no one including me would touch it because of the $665 tax which buys a lot of gas
Until our governments pull their heads out of their collective arse pushing incentives in one hand while taxing the living $hit out of them on the other you will never see mainstream folks owning one over a cheap eco box.
Your thoughts are false, if I were to buy a cheap $2000 BEV I would have to pay $665 in tax + title additional in the first year plus sales tax.
The real road tax loss of funding is due to 30mpg 1/2 ton pickups like this one
New 2019 RAM 1500 Crew Cab w/ the EcoDiesel Hot Deal - Just $23,745 + TTL or $18,575 Off Retail!
[IMG] If I were in the market for a new work truck, this would be the one. ;) Wayne Gerdes – CleanMPG – January 26, 2020 2014 RAM 1500 Tradesman Reg....
www.cleanmpg.com
Road taxes on most cheap eco boxes are only about $37 a year.
My ancient Honda burns $200 annually in fuel, why would anyone pay more on tax than I do on fuel?
Oh yeah the government is just collecting its “rebate” back in the form of extra taxes, needless to say no one will buy a used BEV due to these taxes
And the true entities that aren’t paying their fair share are commercial entities that cause the road damage, equipment operators, cement and taxis are road tax exempt, maybe they should pay their fair share first eh?
And in reality road funding is and always has been 90% other sources (not registration / road tax)
And that is the right way of handling a common good so both those who drive and don’t play some role in paying for something that benefits everyone
Regressive taxation just hurts poor people and makes people avoid it both legally and illegally.
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What's currently the most depressing promising battery, the most bogus and breakthroughest? Anything needing recycling at some point? Or could the mentioned SALD qualify as false enough? Would it be the mentioned nailables as used by BYD? Or does the Ultium next generation sound wrong enough by now? The Prologium? https://moneyballr.medium.com/prolo...large-scale-installation-in-2022-946c4fe4dbd5
Do Toyota's solid state plans sound the fiercest? Who's da weapon of Satan 2020 Q4?
E-GMP with its video showing an AC socket that probably couldn't power a cruise ship overnight.
The topic wasn't that bad originally!
Do Toyota's solid state plans sound the fiercest? Who's da weapon of Satan 2020 Q4?
E-GMP with its video showing an AC socket that probably couldn't power a cruise ship overnight.
The topic wasn't that bad originally!
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No misconception on my part at all.
Now with all those words, what did you actually say that was relevant to anything posted?
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