Big $$$$ made over the working career of a doctor, so in my opinion it’s definitely worth the debt.
I know it’s a very important decision to make BEFORE going to medical school.
The cost of college
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Big $$$$ made over the working career of a doctor, so in my opinion it’s definitely worth the debt.
I know it’s a very important decision to make BEFORE going to medical school.
Unfortunately many don’t want to get their hands dirty and would never consider a trade.
And I do know many college degrees are best used for the bottom of a bird cage….
Just did a little googling - looks to me 35K/year for UMass is tuition, fees and room and board. Was the $3k a semester or $8k a year (with a little bit for books) inclusive of room board and fees? $3K a semester all in seems really low to me, even in 1996.
FWIW, just looked up my NYS public college cost then and now - probably around $15k to $18k a year all in in 2008. Quoted at $28k a year today. Big increase for sure but not so dramatic.
FWIW, just looked up my NYS public college cost then and now - probably around $15k to $18k a year all in in 2008. Quoted at $28k a year today. Big increase for sure but not so dramatic.
I am curious what a dentist would normally on average make in their first year (working for someone) in the early 2000's versus 2022?
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No idea on dental school, but I did my engineering undergrad in the early 90's and it was well under $10K per year all in - so $40K. My first job was like $38K - so one year gross covered college.
My kids will spend $120K for 4 years engineering degree - again in our case a lot of that is paid for through scholarship, and when they get out my guess is they will be in $60 - $80K first year around here - there both in high demand specific fields of stem, so lets call it a little under 2X gross pay per year - or double in real dollar terms from when I graduated.
My wife did education - same cost, her first job IIRC was like $26K - so call that about 1.5X gross pay. New teachers here make under $40K, so $120K/40K is 3X gross pay here in South Carolina for teachers.
So in both cases costs in terms of first year earning potential has doubled in under 30 years.
I have a relative that recently graduated with a masters of engineering and he is making 6 figures out of school, but its in silicon valley where COL is outrageous.
Hasn't changed much and the going rate in 2022 is the same as it was in 2012. One issue is there are dental insurance companies who have not increased their fees in ten years and so there's a constant loss to inflation. Some dental insurance even instituted cuts of 10-30% in the last few years. Your choices here are to either constantly lose ground to inflation taking a pay cut over time, see more patients but that hamster wheel gets old and burnout is very significant in dentistry, or stop taking dental insurance and while patients pay your full fee many will leave for cheaper in-network providers. If the decrease in volume isn't offset by the increased in collections at your full fee rate then you start losing ground again. The real kicker is dentists are getting out of school with +$400k loans now too.
When you factor in loss of income due to school (11 years of higher education for me) + insurance reimbursement + education debt + another 7-figures to start a business, while many dentists have a high income they are starting in such a deep hole that they are really still behind until they're in their 50's. My income is high but I'm just getting out of the hole in my mid-40's (not all the way out either) but that won't be factored into college calculations. They will treat my current income like I've been making for this for the past 25 years with attitude that sure I should have $1M saved by now - I've been making it for about 8 years now.
Again, not looking for sympathy in anyway. The economic reality is there are people who will make significantly less than me per year but because they've been in the workforce longer and they have less debt and they qualify for aid will have a significant easier time sending their children to college.
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The cost of college has increased a lot since the introduction of the 529 plan, coincidence?
I have 3 dear friends that are physicians, one is in family practice, one is an eye surgeon and one a plastic surgeon. [now all retired. In the early years they didn't receive a free lunch from the taxpayers and had to moonlight in the ER to make extra money to make ends meet. They worked really really hard. They have done well and earned it. being a physician or dentist in my opion for what it is quite an accomplishment.
As long as people keep enrolling it will never end, as long as people keep borrowing money to attend it will never end.
IF people didn't pay, it would end and be less expensive. Free market.
There are ways to get an education, I think, in todays world people expect things for "free" or minimal effort or borrow money too easily without thinking things through...
The education system works for those who do think things out. Can't save everyone from themselves and foolish spending ways.
Any college kids taking out loans should be working when not in class and working summers and on holiday breaks.
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It’s going to cost us about $160k for a Respiratory Therapy degree (bachelors) for my daughter at a state school in Alabama that 99% of you have never heard of.
Yes, that includes housing and food and car insurance and fuel for 6 years. Yes she changed her major.
$160k is ridiculous. In fact, you can’t amortize it in a career life if you need to take a loan for it. That is a payment of more than $800/mo for 40 years. No one can afford a $500/mo payment right now in addition to living expenses where they are starting out after college with their $65-70k salary. It doesn’t work
I hope all this student loan payoff BS raises more eyebrows, I hope the last 5 years of people like me exploiting the trades and their income possibilities turn huge numbers of people away from the 4-year indoctrination clinics.
Colleges and Universities need an awakening
Yes, that includes housing and food and car insurance and fuel for 6 years. Yes she changed her major.
$160k is ridiculous. In fact, you can’t amortize it in a career life if you need to take a loan for it. That is a payment of more than $800/mo for 40 years. No one can afford a $500/mo payment right now in addition to living expenses where they are starting out after college with their $65-70k salary. It doesn’t work
I hope all this student loan payoff BS raises more eyebrows, I hope the last 5 years of people like me exploiting the trades and their income possibilities turn huge numbers of people away from the 4-year indoctrination clinics.
Colleges and Universities need an awakening
That’s not really a fair assessment. She’d live somewhere and eat and have car expenses if she was working instead of going to college for 6 years. I’d venture to say it would still be a minimum of $90k to live for 6 years, so the college portion doesn’t sound that bad at $70k for 6 years.
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There is some truth in this, but the country still needs doctors, dentists, engineers and accountants, and you can't learn those things in trade school. The current system is in fact broken - it incentivizes those who should go to trade school to go to college instead, and scares away those smart enough to do some of the earlier mentioned jobs but are scared away by the cost.
My payout for taking that first degree was basically one year. Before university I was making $300/month. Coming out of university I made $825/month. And a $525/month difference for 12 months is $6300. My total costs for a 4 year degree were about $1300/year X 4 = $5200. So in rough terms, I broke even with one year of work after university.
It won’t end. Student loan forgiveness gives carte blanche to those who pursue boutique degrees that don’t come close to providing earnings justifying the cost of ‘earning’ them. And for those who make it over this first hurdle there’s the lure of sitting around stoned being satisfied with making $22 an hour at Burger King. Good luck, good PWMDMD, in your quest to fill your dental hygienist openings.
and they have done nothing to the real problem...The cost.....
^^^ EXACTLY ^^^ Unrestricted government student loans. Colleges are AWASH in money from careless people taking out loans.
My daughter went to a well known respected college here in the SouthEast.
She is doing very well in her career, actually unbelievable, but unlike some other kids, kept her loans (also with our help) to a min.
So proud of her, her first week away at college in year 1 of 4 years she started working a part time job when not in class, she would work full time at that job during holidays and breaks, such as spring break while other kids were partying.
Some summers she would come home and work the job she had before she left for college.
She learned the value of money, and as her parents we are so proud of her and she is too. She realizes everything we helped her with while at the same time learned how to be independent. Even with her student loans, once she was working, I printed out amortization sheets for her and showed her what extra payments would do, we also helped match those extra payments she made with our own incentive.
She knocked off her student loans in five years. While she did, she drove an inexpensive Ford Fiesta, used hand me down cell phones on cheap plans, streamed TV instead of pay for programming and was renting a house all at the same time. Now she is debt free and already socking away money in a 401k. I wish I had parents to teach me like we taught her but its very satisfying to see.
What I am saying is, these darn colleges are so awash in money they don't even know what to do with it, and they have this money from students and parents who carte blanche everything on a loan without asking the cost of things and why?
I don't blame the colleges, why not if people will pay?
I say this because to this days, YEARS later we still get these incredible expensive magazines from the college she hasn't attended in many years.
The entire college cost structure is off the rails because of excessive spending by the parents and students, that is the only reason. They charge what people will pay. College professors pay? are you kidding me? Its through the roof! The staff too, he pay is OFF the WALL while Joe Public takes out loans. This is Joe Publics fault handing over money to institutions with no questions asked. Wouldnt you take it too if you could?
Good news is, trade schools are providing competition and I THINK people are starting to wake up and stop wasting money on college for those who have no career path.
Supply and demand, if people said no to these costs the costs would adjust.
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I know someone who graduated from college with a four year degree in sociology. So far her jobs have been mainly working retail with a brief period as a delivery driver. Currently she works at Costco in their deli section.
She is one example of millions. That is how big this issue is.
She is one example of millions. That is how big this issue is.
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