Exactly, tariffs are pandering to avoid having to explain tax breaks and poor management of OUR tax revenue and spending in the past.
The comment on BITOG that provided me great hope this week “turning rotors”.
- Thread starter GON
- Start date
On the ten year maturity, German debt yields 2.79% while US debt yields 3.35%, so not so much of a difference as you've portrayed.
Current German inflation is at 2.2% while ours is higher at 2.8%, but US unemployment is now at 4.2% while Germany is at 6.2%.
Taxes overall are a much harder calculation, so being lazy I haven't bothered, but does anyone doubt that they're lower here? First of all, we have no VAT, which in Germany is 19% and no state has a sales tax much more than half of that. Second, German income tax is 42% starting at a level at which you'd pay 12% in the US.
I'm sure we'd all sign up for that.
OTOH, this does fund universal health care in Germany as well as free college for those who pass the tests to get admitted, neither of which we have here.
GON
$150 Site Donor 2025
That is not what I am pulling real time
10 Year Treasury Rate is at 4.06%, compared to 4.20% the previous market day and 4.36% last year.
German 10 year bond
| 2.58 | 2.64 | -0.91 |
This is older, but relevant to the discussion:
Jan 7, 2025 — U.S. ten-year government bonds have provided significantly higher yields compared to German ten-year bonds since 2008, with the former yielding 4.36 percent in November 2024 compared to 2.54 for German ten-year government bonds.
If the U.S. is the world's strongest economy, safest place to "store money", and fiscally in healthy shape- there is zero reason U.S. bonds pay higher than German bonds.
The U.S. to German bond rates, a huge spread in fact--- is clearly the canary in the coal mind. Houston we have a problem.
I used figures I pulled in real time, so I'm not sure why we have different numbers.
I guess we should just accept more than triple our current tax rates overall as well as a roughly fifty percent higher unemployment rate and we could then be as blessed as Germany.
Make no mistake, any serious effort to attack the national debt will have to include much higher taxes for all of us, but as a member of Congress once famously said, the golden rule of taxation is "Don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that man behind the tree".
Last edited:
GON
$150 Site Donor 2025
I am willing to be first in line and do whatever it takes to get the U.S. financial house in order, as long as it is aligned with the U.S. constitution. Our great nation needs to be fiscally healthy to maintain its greatness. Nobody likes change but a baby, but not changing will collapse our nation financially. The bond market is telling us this.
Here are a few links to data I am pulling:
https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/bond/BX/TMBMKDE-10Y
https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/DE10Y-DE
So you'd be okay with a 42% tax rate on your earned income?
Maybe that's what it would take.
I wonder how many of our countrymen would accept that?
Imports aren't and never have been the problem.
Ever growing spending in the face of omnipresent tax cuts has been the problem.
When will we wake up and grow up enough to recognize that other nations trade with us isn't our problem but rather our own failure to collect enough in taxes to cover our expenses is.
Maybe that's what it would take.
I wonder how many of our countrymen would accept that?
Imports aren't and never have been the problem.
Ever growing spending in the face of omnipresent tax cuts has been the problem.
When will we wake up and grow up enough to recognize that other nations trade with us isn't our problem but rather our own failure to collect enough in taxes to cover our expenses is.
Interestingly enough, many people have a problem with exposing said poor management of our tax dollars as well.
So apparently many don’t want that, they don’t want tariffs, but they do want things “fixed” somehow. Quite an easy position to take IMO.
GON
$150 Site Donor 2025
Governments are generally not efficient in spending money. Not sure tax rates are the issue.
Would I be ok with a tax rate modifications tied to elected officials would not eligible for reelection without a balanced budget, and annual ten percent reduction in government debt? And budget votes and entitlement votes done by secret ballot? Then yes, I absolutely would be open to changes in the amount I am taxed.
Last edited:
I heard an economist say the biggest share of the federal budget is Social Security. In theory it's supposed to come out of a separate trust, but there's theory and then there's practice. Her recommendation was first to establish means testing. If your taxable income was, say, more than $250k, your benefit would be reduced. We already have a similar means mechanism with Medicare, IRMAA, and the SSA administers it.
There's also an income ceiling on deductions. Income above $176K is not subject to Social Security taxation. Remove that.
My wife took a lump-sum buyout in 2008 that bumped her income above $110k. I was surprised to learn that income above that levat was not SS taxable. At least they raised the maximum beyond that relatively paltry sum.
Finally, we could raise the full benefit age. Trouble with that is, a lot of people are counting on the reduced benefit at age 62. Reducing that benefit further would hurt those who need it most.
None of this, of course, has anything to do with the trade deficit.
Logs harvested in NH are shipped to Canada to be milled out then trucked back.
.
US federal debt all by itself is $36 Trillion. Interest is over $1T by itself. That is 20% of tax receipts, just to pay the interest. US tax receipts have NEVER been higher than 18% of GDP. The income tax rate has varied from like 25% to 96% over the years - its always under 18% of GDP. Were at like 17% now. You can't raise taxes to cover it, or never have been able to.
If that isn't bad enough - total global debt - all sectors - is 350% of GDP. So putting that into perspective - even at Germany's 10 year rate of 2.58% - we would need 9% of global GDP just to cover the interest payments. In reality most is at much higher rates.
If you have a growing population you might be able to kick the can - but the birth rates are imploding.
That is why were here. That is why this craziness is happening.
There is no way to attack the national debt. Or the global debt for that matter - public and private. There is no way to pay it - its too large. That is what is driving this entire thing - they need to find a new way to fund the debt - or lower interest rates and kick the can.
US federal debt all by itself is $36 Trillion. Interest is over $1T by itself. That is 20% of tax receipts, just to pay the interest. US tax receipts have NEVER been higher than 18% of GDP. The income tax rate has varied from like 25% to 96% over the years - its always under 18% of GDP. Were at like 17% now. You can't raise taxes to cover it, or never have been able to.
If that isn't bad enough - total global debt - all sectors - is 350% of GDP. So putting that into perspective - even at Germany's 10 year rate of 2.58% - we would need 9% of global GDP just to cover the interest payments. In reality most is at much higher rates.
If you have a growing population you might be able to kick the can - but the birth rates are imploding.
That is why were here. That is why this craziness is happening.
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2025
Deleted, wrong thread.
Last edited:
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2025
I have planned for no social security.
That is the safe plan.
Mods, thank you so much for not locking this thread. I understand it's skirting the (justified) ban on discussing politics, but has produced some really good discussion, with both sides making some good arguments.
So, on a national level, I think some increase in national debt is all right, as long as the country is thriving economically such that the annual deficit does not exceed a certain percentage of GDP (3%?), and the accumulated debt, even though increasing, is falling as a percentage of GDP.
But ideally, I'd like to see both the U.S. and Canada actually running budget surpluses and thus paying down their national debts.
As well, I think that a devalued currency acts effectively like a tariff - it makes imports more expensive, and exports more attractive.
So, on a national level, I think some increase in national debt is all right, as long as the country is thriving economically such that the annual deficit does not exceed a certain percentage of GDP (3%?), and the accumulated debt, even though increasing, is falling as a percentage of GDP.
But ideally, I'd like to see both the U.S. and Canada actually running budget surpluses and thus paying down their national debts.
As well, I think that a devalued currency acts effectively like a tariff - it makes imports more expensive, and exports more attractive.
I am a Malaysian and my country taxes products from overseas way too much. I am hoping this round of tariffs from D.T would force my govt to negotiate tariffs for US made products, as there is a huge market here for US made stuff like oils and greases. There are plenty of people who buy Motorcraft oils but we get taxed like hell for it. If the Malaysian govt lowers tariffs for US products I consider that a win to myself and other consumers here. I myself would really love to buy VRP imported from the US as my local valvoline blender does not have VRP.
The same happens with some of the Canadian lumber, gets exported to US to be milled and then it’s imported back to Canada. There are some stupid rules about what type of processing is allowed.
I think it’s a big scam by some well connected individuals/corporations that greatly profit from this arrangement.
In the meantime the whole mess is used as a political tool to keep the peasants arguing amongst themselves IMO.
So, I have always kind of stayed in the middle and tried to understand both sides of the coin. This is a tough one. I do understand, kind of big picture, what he is trying to do, but probably don't understand the meat and potatoes of it.
My biggest issue with the current Administration is that they forego the scalpel, and take out the chain saw. I think some diplomacy to push it in right direction for the country should be done. Come up with a plan and communicate with our trade partners. Be clear and firm, but I don't think we need a chainsaw.
That's just how I see it.
I saved the rotors off of the Marquis when I did them 3 years ago. The rotors I put on in 2022 are starting to shake. I think I'll have the other set turned then I can keep this set as the next spare. I can't imagine this car will have that much life left in it.
Same with the Sentra. I pulled the originals off .
But it might have to - in a few years, a Nissan Versa is going to be $70,000
Same with the Sentra. I pulled the originals off .
But it might have to - in a few years, a Nissan Versa is going to be $70,000
