So the answer is starting a global tariffs war? Where does this end?
The comment on BITOG that provided me great hope this week “turning rotors”.
- Thread starter GON
- Start date
Please point me to all of these “thoughtful” tariffs, who proposed them, when they were implemented and how effective they ultimately were?
Yes and absolutely yes because thus far there was absolutely nothing done about it and there were no signs of anything even being planned to tackle this massive deficit.
Massive problems, sometimes require drastic measures. We’ve postponed this issue long enough that now there is no “easing” our way into it.
What? My point is there are no thoughtful tariffs.
Why does everyone else implement them, except us?
Sure...cutting off our nose to spite our face was the only option. It's called diplomacy. You're simultaneously claiming no one has ever done anything about it and the nuclear option was the only option. We didn't even try the non-nuclear option. Sorry, I don't see it and it was a foolish and counter productive way to address the issue. It's also just pandering and not a sincere attempt to fix anything.
Last edited:
Poorer countries do it because they are poor countries struggling to get a foothold. If our goal is to be like poor countries, sure use tariffs indiscriminately. Wealthier countries make trade deals with us THAT WE AGREED TO in the past. If they were bad for us, don't agree to them, and negotiate. Also, you have to be honest about them. Claiming Canada has 200% tariff on dairy that has a threshold that we've never even reached half of to activate is disingenuous at best and it was part of the trade deal we agreed - renegotiate it.
This is huge game of chicken and so far it looks like our former trade partners are just making new trade agreements with each other and saying to heck with the US. Meanwhile, we all know who pays tariffs. It's a stupid plan all around.
Again, all you’re doing is pointing out the potential failures and in your mind you’ve already deemed it a failure, as well as tons of other “experts” that now have a lot to say, where in the past they were all dead silent.
My opinion is that given no other alternatives being done in the past, let’s give this one a chance. These tariffs can be as easily removed as they were implemented.
And they've already had HUGE (un)intended consequences that reach far beyond trade, so let's stop pretending if they were lifted tomorrow, our place as a leader in the world would be restored. As I've said, there were nonnuclear options that could've maintained our standing in the world and accomplished much of what we wanted. The bull in the china shop tactic is nothing more than unskilled statecraft.
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
This thread is destined to get locked but maybe before it does can someone (@KrisZ ?) explain how it is absolutely necessary to bring chaos to the US and world economy to fix long standing inequities and simutaneously attempt to remake all aspects of the US government causing chaos in every direction RIGHT NOW.
It doesn't look like anyone is disputing things need fixed. Did we agree to a high stakes game of chicken?
It doesn't look like anyone is disputing things need fixed. Did we agree to a high stakes game of chicken?
Because that’s what people wanted and voted for?
Perhaps they imagined this a bit differently, but they wanted it, didn’t they?
Could this be a solution in search of a problem?
The problem may not be trade balances at all since trade accounts must balance.
The problem may be in decades of federal deficit spending under the leaderships of both parties that mandates the creation of federal debt instruments the sale of which then balances trade accounts, which must balance either through sale of goods or financial claims.
Maybe we need to focus on the real issue by looking in the mirror and avoid blaming others?
This will be far more painful than scapegoating other countries while failing to reform our own, but what leader wants to advocate for higher taxes directly?
OTOH, tariffs are a stealth tax on us.
The problem may not be trade balances at all since trade accounts must balance.
The problem may be in decades of federal deficit spending under the leaderships of both parties that mandates the creation of federal debt instruments the sale of which then balances trade accounts, which must balance either through sale of goods or financial claims.
Maybe we need to focus on the real issue by looking in the mirror and avoid blaming others?
This will be far more painful than scapegoating other countries while failing to reform our own, but what leader wants to advocate for higher taxes directly?
OTOH, tariffs are a stealth tax on us.
Because waiting is not an option. Four years is not a lot of time, and really it's two sure years while the current makeup of congress is favorable.
Our place as the world leader is being restored right now IMO. US was the laughing stock of the world, although they loved US money being poured in into their economies.
I think some are having "buyers remorse"......
Some are laughing about Greenland...yes.
GON
$150 Site Donor 2025
Here is what Germany is paying on its debt:
| Germany 3M | 2.09 percent |
Here is what the U.S. is paying on its debt:
| US 3M | 4.26 percent |
These are today's rate. This is clear unrebukable data.
There is absolutely zero ways a nation can remain financially viable and survive with year over year trade deficits. None. The spread between German and US bonds clearly tells the condition of the US's current financial condition.
There is so much more at risk if we don't take actions required in hopes to shore up the nation's finances. Every single person knows deep in their heart how kicking the can down the road will end up.
Last edited:
Sure 22% of all Americans, 31% of all eligible voters, and 49% of those who voted, voted for this but there are still a WHOLE LOT more Americans who didn't vote for this. Hardly the mandate being claimed.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2024
- Messages
- 674
That's the thing. Some are privileged enough to say "pain now will be worth it." But many may never recover and this will further divide the rich and lower income. But those people saying it may not care about those with lower income.
Not sure how it is in Canada and their lumber prices now, but when I lived there, on average Canadians had to pay between 50% to 100% more for the same piece of lumber when compared to US.
So the lumber trade with US is totally not benefiting an average Canadian, despite the raw lumber being produced mainly In Canada. It's the same with oil. Who wins with this so called trade? The corporations that act as middlemen in all of this.
So the lumber trade with US is totally not benefiting an average Canadian, despite the raw lumber being produced mainly In Canada. It's the same with oil. Who wins with this so called trade? The corporations that act as middlemen in all of this.
