The comment on BITOG that provided me great hope this week “turning rotors”.

Speaking specifically to the topic of the thread title .... that of turning rotors ...

The problem with many OE rotors and replacement rotors these days is that there isn't much "meat on the bone"; there's precious little material on a typical used rotors worth turning, because they often are so thin that they can't be safely cut deep enough to both remove any warpage/grooves and at the same time stay above the minimum required thickness spec. This is why many large auto-parts chains simply don't mess with turning rotors.

About the only time I've seen rotors worth cutting are when you have purchased aftermarket discs which were (for a lack of better terms) "oversized"; meaning that they are severe service rotors which have a lot more "meat" on them. Some high-volume applications offer these "better" rotors.
Example ... my stock 2018 Taurus has fairly thin OE rotors which warped under heat loads (repeated applications in mountains). I bought "severe service" Duralast Gold rotors and the pulsing problem vanished, and there was also enough material that in the future, they likely could have been cut at least once and stay viable.
The turning of rotors was an example. I suspect thousands of other new imported products could instead be remanufactured domestically such as starters, alternators, etc.
 
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No economist is needed whatsoever to explain when a nation imports more than it exports, over a long term, that nation will financially collapse.

Economists had decades to sound the alarm. Kind of like a dietician showing up at the operating room for a diabetic patient getting their limbs amputated. To late for the dietician to prevent the limb amputations.
What it is matters too - bcs I lived in Korea in 2014 - I was keenly aware of KORUS and how different loyalty to country was. I also noticed one of the big ways we kept the balance even less lopsided was with food products - never cared much for that one myself.
(agriculture damages our ecosystem but it is not nice to talk about it) ...
 
The turning of rotors was an example. I am suspect thousands of other new imported products could instead be remanufactured domestically such as starters, alternators, etc.
Yes, I made a comment in that thread and have used it as an example talking about this reset.
On the rotors - I try to do my pads early and just slap them on when the rotors still look good.
(I think RooflessVW has done this as well) ...
 
I think you have a somewhat romanticized view.

When I started life as an adult, I chose a field of work I was passionate about but paid poorly. I hustled and was successful. I appreciate who I was then, as well as who I am now, but am happy to have more choices with what I do now that I'm comfortable.

We see some interesting video from poorer countries of very smart people scrambling to get by. Not just turning rotors but cleaning spark plugs, recapping tires, rebuilding batteries, etc.

I don't like what the world's consumerist lifestyle is doing for the planet, but don't think artificially kneecapping ourselves is the answer.

As for the forbidden topic-- The US trade deficit is what it is, since people the world over like dollars, because they're slightly more stable than their home currencies of the Yuan, Ruble, Pound, or Euro. Shifting away from this is a very precarious idea.

 
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Yes, I made a comment in that thread and have used it as an example talking about this reset.
On the rotors - I try to do my pads early and just slap them on when the rotors still look good.
(I think RooflessVW has done this as well) ...
Exactly@! Funny this should come up right now.
I knew last summer/fall that my 17 Traverse with 80k miles was going to need brakes. My wife, not me heard the intermittent squeak of the wear sensor 3 months ago. I was like darn it and I was also middle of radiation treatment which was a bear. Could not get motivated to do anything.
Anyway, had to stop using the truck and took my wife's new Equinox to treatment daily.

Exhausted I did push myself to get the brakes done a week or two later.
Ordered the best available "Pro" rotors and pads available at O'reilly's. Advance and Nappa didn't have the upper tier ones in stock.
I was very impressed. Rotors were "painted" no grease on them out of the box. Pads looked way robust and they had the "brake in" coating on them too. Also came in fancy boxes with new clips for the calipers.
Anyway, glad I pushed myself to get it done and in all my life I typically do get to swapping out the pads before hitting the rotors. In this case I almost feel good about the new rotors. Gosh the truck feels new AND I tow a boat with it so not a bad thing.

Ok anyway, yes. pushed myself to do it and I bet it took me more time to find my tools and floor jack in our garage then actually changing it all out. Garage is still a mess from moving in a while back. Maybe 25 min a wheel and it's always the reason I like to do my own. Takes less time than if you had to drop off and pick up the vehicle and you can be sure it's done right. Never mind best parts and incredible savings.

IMG_2476.webp
 
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I'm not sure I agree. I happen to know a machinist who voted against the 43% raise that he got. He did buy a brand new Escalade thanks to the increase, the suburban version. You don't want to know what my raise was, I won't be working long enough to see 43%. I would have been ecstatic to get that, but it's all relative. So maybe the aftermarket rotor will do just fine, whatever it costs. I put Centric coated ones on for $27 in 2018, and they're still fine. I actually bought another set and they're in the basement. But, even doubled, it's not great %-wise but it's still affordable at $54 or even $108.
 
The comment on BITOG that provided me great hope this week “turning rotors”.



Apologies I can’t find the reply in one of the numerous threads reference tariff discussions. I did a search but unable to find the reply, and to acknowledge the BITOG member who posted the following (memoir not verbatim):

“guess we will have to go back to turning/ cutting rotors instead of buying new Chinese aftermarket rotors”

That BITOGers’ comment deeply motivated me all weekend (it is Sunday in Asia). I look at that and think wow, tariffs have the potential of reestablishing basic machine shops in auto part stores, training a new generation of Americans to operate lathes and associated equipment, restarts the manufacturing of brake lathe equipment, or resume using brake lathe equipment sitting idle.

Some of the auto part store workers will get trained to cut rotors, resulting in a growth of machinists' interest. These workers may further become machinists, lithograph operators, one could go on and on.

Having machinists’ equipment and machinist reintroduced to America has limitless benefits. I am sure there are thousands of other like opportunities in America once we start manufacturing up again.

I am hopeful in America this Sunday morning. It won’t be easy, might in fact be very painful in the short term- but well worth the pain in support of our great nation that has given so much to so very many.
There is a difference between doing what you have to do and it being the best choice. An analogy - this is kind of like saying during famine isn't it great that people are learning to ration again, use their food resources efficiently, and not over eat. Are those good things in general? Sure, but this is really an attempt to make the most out of a bad situation and not an alternative good situation.

I see a lot of romanticizing the days of old lately. Let's get back to the good old wholesome 1950s where American manufacturing was strong and the middle class was strong too. Most of the people saying these things weren't a live or old enough in the 1950s to remember it well and I can guarantee it wasn't the beacon of good wholesome American life that people are making it out to be. The world economy wasn't what it is now back then. The service jobs, which are MUCH more appealing to most, didn't exist back then. Most importantly, there is a reason why the US decided to trade manufacturing for service over the past 5 decades, few people want to actually participate in manufacturing unless they have no other choice, and the service industry boom gave them another choice.

The fact that some people MAY get jobs in manufacturing because the world economy has collapsed making new rotors too expensive isn't a good thing in my opinion - it's just something we may have to do out of necessity, because we have less money.
 
Interesting article, recommended reading as a supplement to this thread:

Greece Economic Crisis – Lessons from Disaster and Partial Recovery​

For seven years, the Euro seemed a blessing. Markets assumed Greek debt was now safe so bond yields were as low as Germany’s yields. The Greek economy took advantage and went on a borrowing binge. Buying luxury foreign imports such as German cars, at ultra-low interest rates. Yet, whilst consumption rose, so did problems of productivity, higher inflation and lower competitiveness.

The Greek current account deficit started to soar, reaching 15% of GDP in 2008. It’s hard to emphasise just how unprecedented it is for a country to such a large trade imbalance. In the Euro, other countries like Spain experienced a similar problem, but Greece was off the scale. It was heightened only by record levels of Greek government debt.

The problem is debts were so massive that the Greek economy struggled to finance them. The Greek finance sector was in meltdown. For years, markets assumed Greek debt would be as safe as Germany’s. But, in 2010 they they suddenly became labelled as Junk status. Bond yields soared from 2% to 30%. Not only had Greece massive debt, but now it had a surge in interest rate costs which overwhelmed the government.


https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/216058/economics/greece-economic-crisis/
Well, there is that little nuance of Greece not having its own currency.
Things are a little different for a country that controls is own currency, particularly if that currency happens to be regarded as the reserve currency for the rest of the world.
 
I don't think you are joking with this post !
How many more trillions of dollars can the American economy stand to lose ?
Tariffs do have their place and do work to some extent But tariffing the entire trading world well good luck !
No country cannot and will not ever be self sufficient.
Apparently last year the USA imported something like $545-600 billion in Chinese goods, while China imported $150-160 Billion in US goods.
 
There is a difference between doing what you have to do and it being the best choice. An analogy - this is kind of like saying during famine isn't it great that people are learning to ration again, use their food resources efficiently, and not over eat. Are those good things in general? Sure, but this is really an attempt to make the most out of a bad situation and not an alternative good situation.

I see a lot of romanticizing the days of old lately. Let's get back to the good old wholesome 1950s where American manufacturing was strong and the middle class was strong too. Most of the people saying these things weren't a live or old enough in the 1950s to remember it well and I can guarantee it wasn't the beacon of good wholesome American life that people are making it out to be. The world economy wasn't what it is now back then. The service jobs, which are MUCH more appealing to most, didn't exist back then. Most importantly, there is a reason why the US decided to trade manufacturing for service over the past 5 decades, few people want to actually participate in manufacturing unless they have no other choice, and the service industry boom gave them another choice.

The fact that some people MAY get jobs in manufacturing because the world economy has collapsed making new rotors too expensive isn't a good thing in my opinion - it's just something we may have to do out of necessity, because we have less money.
The barista serving coffee to their hairdresser.
Okay, that’s what national security is about …
 
I posted this in another thread, there has been much complaining about the who and the why on the decline in US manufacturing, and little focus on the how it will be fixed.

Explain the how @GON

FDR had the answer, and it wasn’t austerity.
Cole and Ohanian from UCLA very convincingly showed that FDR's policies massively prolonged the great depression... doubled it by their analysis.
 
Apparently last year the USA imported something like $545-600 billion in Chinese goods, while China imported $150-160 Billion in US goods.
How much can we expect the average Chinese person to buy in American goods with an average per capita income of $12k? Let's us not forget AMERICAN companies make the decision to move their manufacturing overseas. I know a guy who offshored textiles for a major department store and made a $7M bonus that year on top of his already 7-figure income. He lives in a $4.5M mansion on Long Island and he'll be just fine for the rest of his life. India didn't make him do it, $7M did, but sure let's blame India because this guy wanted a fourth vacation home.


We are the wealthiest country and the third largest country in the world - OF COURSE we run a trade deficit. We have more people than all but two countries and we have more money per person than any other country of comparable size, so we are going buy more stuff than any other country, which WE AMERICANS want as cheaply as possible.
 
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How much can we expect the average Chinese person to buy in American goods with an average per capita income of $12k? Let's us not forget AMERICAN companies make the decision to move their manufacturing overseas. I know a guy who offshored textiles for a major department store and made a $7M bonus that year on top of his already 7-figure income. He lives in a $4.5M mansion on Long Island and he'll be just fine for the rest of his life. India didn't make him do it, $7M did, but sure let's blame India because this guy wanted a fourth vacation home.


We are the wealthiest country and the third largest country in the world - OF COURSE we run a trade deficit. We have more people than all but two countries and we have more money per person than any other country of comparable size, so we are going buy more stuff than any other country, which WE AMERICANS want as cheaply as possible.
A big issue is dumping which a number of administrations ended up taxing. China brought over garlic and sold it for less than the cost to make it, which then puts us producers out of business. California used to have twelve garlic growers and producers there are now three. India taxes American liquor at 30 plus percent. How much more would citizens buy from us if it was more affordable? A bottle of Jack Daniels is close to $200 in Mumbai.
 
A big issue is dumping which a number of administrations ended up taxing. China brought over garlic and sold it for less than the cost to make it, which then puts us producers out of business. California used to have twelve garlic growers and producers there are now three. India taxes American liquor at 30 plus percent. How much more would citizens buy from us if it was more affordable? A bottle of Jack Daniels is close to $200 in Mumbai.
I'm not saying there aren't issues with trade in general but the idea that it is ever going to "even" is ridiculous. The idea that we can make everything we buy from abroad here as cheaply is ridiculous. The idea that we aren't paying these tariffs is ridiculous. The idea that these broad tariffs, instead of strategic and thoughtful tariffs on specific goods and sectors are going to accomplish anything good, is ridiculous.
 
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Here's an example in my small world on the effects tariffs may have.

Before NAFTA became a thing, our small family farm was enough to sustain the family quite well, and even had some "fun money" most years. Small herd of beef cattle, and about 600-700 acres of crops, in those days usually wheat, barley, timothy, oats. Later soybeans and canola.

After NAFTA, Canada government decided to subsidize their farmers and dump insane amounts of dirt cheap agricultural products into the US market. Ag prices reduced and stagnated in the markets. Lot of my neighbors moved on, lost their farms, or took productive land out of production and into CRP.

We did ok, as the family farm was paid off and didn't have a ton of overhead, others weren't as lucky. We definitely didn't have much "fun money." But think of this, a bushel of wheat today sells for about the same as it did in the late 70s. Nothing else costs the same.

So I hope a course correction will occur, or is possible to occur. I will remain hopeful and try not succumb to hysteria.
 
A big issue is dumping which a number of administrations ended up taxing. China brought over garlic and sold it for less than the cost to make it, which then puts us producers out of business. California used to have twelve garlic growers and producers there are now three. India taxes American liquor at 30 plus percent. How much more would citizens buy from us if it was more affordable? A bottle of Jack Daniels is close to $200 in Mumbai.
I'm not sure anyone is arguing against the use of targeted tariffs; they're a valuable tool.
But global tariffs? What are the poor penguins to do?

Here's the bottom line. People like me, with very low cost of living and high net worth, have little to fear beyond losing (insert big numbers here) in the market.
Others will suffer a consumption tax; everything will cost more. And it could be far worse. World wide.
And wealthy tax brackets will benefit.

I am a fiscal conservative. If I were not fiscally well prepared, I would be scared. We are in uncharted waters.
 
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For a couple of decades we’ve heard that “something ought to be done about the trade deficit” and most nodded their heads with agreement. For decades no real solution was ever presented, just empty words and promises and the deficit just kept climbing to new heights pretty much every year.

Now, we are actually doing something about it, like most of you wanted. But all of the sudden we have the “experts”, that for decades provided zero solutions, tell us how it’s not going to work. Sheesh, let’s just give up and continue running massive deficits, duh! The “experts” have spoken.
 
For a couple of decades we’ve heard that “something ought to be done about the trade deficit” and most nodded their heads with agreement. For decades no real solution was ever presented, just empty words and promises and the deficit just kept climbing to new heights pretty much every year.

Now, we are actually doing something about it, like most of you wanted. But all of the sudden we have the “experts”, that for decades provided zero solutions, tell us how it’s not going to work. Sheesh, let’s just give up and continue running massive deficits, duh! The “experts” have spoken.
How it's done means nothing as long as something is done? Fine, now there's someone willing to do something but there is no reason the current tariffs couldn't have been targeted and thoughtful. The will to do something and the manner in which it's done are two completely separate ideas.
 
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