OK--so you all know about the Bill Heard Chevrolet group going bankrupt. Went from the world's largest volume Chev dealer in 2007 to out of business in one year. Why--well they made their mark selling vehicles to bad credit people and using shady tactics. When the credit market dried up for those buyers, they had nothting left. People can still go to their local credit union or bank and get a car loan if you have good credit. Those people generally buy foreign makes. The Big 3 have been pushing SUVs to poor credit risks for far too long hoping that gas would stay cheap while neglecting the inevitable need to make money selling high MPG cars that are reliable. Now that gas is cheap again, it doesn't matter since the economy is in the dumps. It's a broken business model that had to crash at some point. Dealers building palaces from which to sell cars is neither effecient or necessary to move product. It just makes for a high pressure, unenjoyable buying experience. And it's not just the legacy costs that everyone talks about, though they do need to go away. Detroit needs new blood and new thinking and new cutting edge technology that this, the greatest country the world has ever seen, can provide. If not, a bailout won't matter in the slightest. If Detroit cannot innovate--it will end up on the trash heap of business history. It's actually a great opportunity to start over when you think about it.
The Big 3 business model is broken--see Bill Heard
- Thread starter JDD
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Now's the time for someone to unveil their "written on a napkin" idea, patent it, and make themselves and one of the Big 3 billions in new sales. What that idea is, I'm not sure. Perhaps a battery that will last for 500 miles per charge.
Or a decent small car. It's painfully obvious where GM's development dollars have been going when you compare a Tahoe to a Cobalt in material quality and overall workmanship. By no stretch am I saying that a $14,000 Cobalt should be equal in all ways to a $40,000 Tahoe, but other makes who shall remain nameless offer close-to-parallel quality and content across their entire model lineup.
As far as mega-dealerships failing, that can be from so many different factors. Stock practices (the cars they choose to keep on the lot), customer service practices, selling practices (how many people did they p*ss off?) I wouldn't blame GM entirely for individual dealership failure. They're far from created equally.
As far as mega-dealerships failing, that can be from so many different factors. Stock practices (the cars they choose to keep on the lot), customer service practices, selling practices (how many people did they p*ss off?) I wouldn't blame GM entirely for individual dealership failure. They're far from created equally.
Originally Posted By: JDD
Why--well they made their mark selling vehicles to bad credit people and using shady tactics.
Eastern Motors is still around...and that's exactly what they do, although with used vehicles.
Why--well they made their mark selling vehicles to bad credit people and using shady tactics.
Eastern Motors is still around...and that's exactly what they do, although with used vehicles.
The Big 3 are run by greedy CEO's that look at how to fatten their paycheck, primarily. The Japanese look at it a matter of National Honor, or disgrace, if they build a good car or a bad one. If the Japanese had been building cars similar to the big 3, the CEO and the engineers would commit Hare Kare, to regain grace from this national disgrace.
It really is an attitude: the CEO's, and the workers too, just look for fat pay check, and who cares whether they build [censored] or not. The Japanese CEO and the engineer has a noble purpose, that it is a human quality to excel and build a superior product. We need a cultural revolution in the States, and CEO's should be put to work sweeping the streets and picking tomatoes and beans for Wendy's. Then the workers need to understand that if they are building garbage, they need to go on strike and demand to build good designs.
We need a shoe throwing moment here.
It really is an attitude: the CEO's, and the workers too, just look for fat pay check, and who cares whether they build [censored] or not. The Japanese CEO and the engineer has a noble purpose, that it is a human quality to excel and build a superior product. We need a cultural revolution in the States, and CEO's should be put to work sweeping the streets and picking tomatoes and beans for Wendy's. Then the workers need to understand that if they are building garbage, they need to go on strike and demand to build good designs.
We need a shoe throwing moment here.
Originally Posted By: c3po
I see that many people had problems with American cars built from the 1960's up until maybe sometime in the 1990's and they do not want to get burned again.
Really? Personal experience tells me otherwise.
I would gladly buy American as long as it was pre '73. All of my American cars from the 60's were bulletproof.
I see that many people had problems with American cars built from the 1960's up until maybe sometime in the 1990's and they do not want to get burned again.
Really? Personal experience tells me otherwise.
I would gladly buy American as long as it was pre '73. All of my American cars from the 60's were bulletproof.
Originally Posted By: heathenbrewing
The Big 3 are run by greedy CEO's that look at how to fatten their paycheck, primarily. The Japanese look at it a matter of National Honor, or disgrace, if they build a good car or a bad one. If the Japanese had been building cars similar to the big 3, the CEO and the engineers would commit Hare Kare, to regain grace from this national disgrace.
It really is an attitude: the CEO's, and the workers too, just look for fat pay check, and who cares whether they build [censored] or not. The Japanese CEO and the engineer has a noble purpose, that it is a human quality to excel and build a superior product. We need a cultural revolution in the States, and CEO's should be put to work sweeping the streets and picking tomatoes and beans for Wendy's. Then the workers need to understand that if they are building garbage, they need to go on strike and demand to build good designs.
We need a shoe throwing moment here.
True, but you have to also blame the consumers that continue to buy domestic [censored], year after year, even after reading many bad reviews, and MANY issues ConsumerReports and many other organizations have had with domestic cars. I find it most peculiar that many American's over the decades continue to enable the big three even as hey continue to build [censored].
Amazing!
And don't forget the UAW...they too have thier share of blame for helping to drive the big three into the ground.
The Big 3 are run by greedy CEO's that look at how to fatten their paycheck, primarily. The Japanese look at it a matter of National Honor, or disgrace, if they build a good car or a bad one. If the Japanese had been building cars similar to the big 3, the CEO and the engineers would commit Hare Kare, to regain grace from this national disgrace.
It really is an attitude: the CEO's, and the workers too, just look for fat pay check, and who cares whether they build [censored] or not. The Japanese CEO and the engineer has a noble purpose, that it is a human quality to excel and build a superior product. We need a cultural revolution in the States, and CEO's should be put to work sweeping the streets and picking tomatoes and beans for Wendy's. Then the workers need to understand that if they are building garbage, they need to go on strike and demand to build good designs.
We need a shoe throwing moment here.
True, but you have to also blame the consumers that continue to buy domestic [censored], year after year, even after reading many bad reviews, and MANY issues ConsumerReports and many other organizations have had with domestic cars. I find it most peculiar that many American's over the decades continue to enable the big three even as hey continue to build [censored].
Amazing!
And don't forget the UAW...they too have thier share of blame for helping to drive the big three into the ground.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: lovcom
True, but you have to also blame the consumers that continue to buy domestic [censored], year after year, even after reading many bad reviews, and MANY issues ConsumerReports and many other organizations have had with domestic cars. I find it most peculiar that many American's over the decades continue to enable the big three even as hey continue to build [censored].
Amazing!
And don't forget the UAW...they too have thier share of blame for helping to drive the big three into the ground.
Stop living in the 90s. The domestics DON'T build [censored] anymore. It's because of people like you that they're not doing well. Just because they had a bad experience 15 years ago, they think the company is doomed to making [censored] forever. There is such thing as improvement. Although, maybe I shouldn't talk, since my 92 Accord is one of the main reasons I think the Japanese cars are some of the most overrated vehicles in the world...
True, but you have to also blame the consumers that continue to buy domestic [censored], year after year, even after reading many bad reviews, and MANY issues ConsumerReports and many other organizations have had with domestic cars. I find it most peculiar that many American's over the decades continue to enable the big three even as hey continue to build [censored].
Amazing!
And don't forget the UAW...they too have thier share of blame for helping to drive the big three into the ground.
Stop living in the 90s. The domestics DON'T build [censored] anymore. It's because of people like you that they're not doing well. Just because they had a bad experience 15 years ago, they think the company is doomed to making [censored] forever. There is such thing as improvement. Although, maybe I shouldn't talk, since my 92 Accord is one of the main reasons I think the Japanese cars are some of the most overrated vehicles in the world...
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: heathenbrewing
The Big 3 are run by greedy CEO's that look at how to fatten their paycheck, primarily. The Japanese look at it a matter of National Honor, or disgrace, if they build a good car or a bad one. If the Japanese had been building cars similar to the big 3, the CEO and the engineers would commit Hare Kare, to regain grace from this national disgrace.
It really is an attitude: the CEO's, and the workers too, just look for fat pay check, and who cares whether they build [censored] or not. The Japanese CEO and the engineer has a noble purpose, that it is a human quality to excel and build a superior product. We need a cultural revolution in the States, and CEO's should be put to work sweeping the streets and picking tomatoes and beans for Wendy's. Then the workers need to understand that if they are building garbage, they need to go on strike and demand to build good designs.
We need a shoe throwing moment here.
True, but you have to also blame the consumers that continue to buy domestic [censored], year after year, even after reading many bad reviews, and MANY issues ConsumerReports and many other organizations have had with domestic cars. I find it most peculiar that many American's over the decades continue to enable the big three even as hey continue to build [censored].
Amazing!
And don't forget the UAW...they too have thier share of blame for helping to drive the big three into the ground.
Yes, it would be nice if you knew a little about what you're talking about
Originally Posted By: heathenbrewing
The Big 3 are run by greedy CEO's that look at how to fatten their paycheck, primarily. The Japanese look at it a matter of National Honor, or disgrace, if they build a good car or a bad one. If the Japanese had been building cars similar to the big 3, the CEO and the engineers would commit Hare Kare, to regain grace from this national disgrace.
It really is an attitude: the CEO's, and the workers too, just look for fat pay check, and who cares whether they build [censored] or not. The Japanese CEO and the engineer has a noble purpose, that it is a human quality to excel and build a superior product. We need a cultural revolution in the States, and CEO's should be put to work sweeping the streets and picking tomatoes and beans for Wendy's. Then the workers need to understand that if they are building garbage, they need to go on strike and demand to build good designs.
We need a shoe throwing moment here.
True, but you have to also blame the consumers that continue to buy domestic [censored], year after year, even after reading many bad reviews, and MANY issues ConsumerReports and many other organizations have had with domestic cars. I find it most peculiar that many American's over the decades continue to enable the big three even as hey continue to build [censored].
Amazing!
And don't forget the UAW...they too have thier share of blame for helping to drive the big three into the ground.
Yes, it would be nice if you knew a little about what you're talking about
Originally Posted By: heathenbrewing
The Big 3 are run by greedy CEO's that look at how to fatten their paycheck...
We need a shoe throwing moment here.
Yes, thrown at YOU for such drivel. I'm soooo sick of hearing about greedy CEO's, how great Japan is "noble", how big vehicles are the bain to our existence, how the U.S. is awful, we all suck, we want big cars, that's not noble.
How many times are we going to hear about how terrible we are as a society, how terrible our choices are??
The Big 3 are run by greedy CEO's that look at how to fatten their paycheck...
We need a shoe throwing moment here.
Yes, thrown at YOU for such drivel. I'm soooo sick of hearing about greedy CEO's, how great Japan is "noble", how big vehicles are the bain to our existence, how the U.S. is awful, we all suck, we want big cars, that's not noble.
How many times are we going to hear about how terrible we are as a society, how terrible our choices are??
My Dad used to work for one of the Big-3 and we won't touch the cars... That should tell you something.
We are proud owners of Kia's & Hyundai with many trouble free miles!
We are proud owners of Kia's & Hyundai with many trouble free miles!
Originally Posted By: StevieC
My Dad used to work for one of the Big-3 and we won't touch the cars... That should tell you something.
We are proud owners of Kia's & Hyundai with many trouble free miles!
So you must be shocked that I have had many trouble free miles with my Jeep, Chevy, and Pontiac.
My Dad used to work for one of the Big-3 and we won't touch the cars... That should tell you something.
We are proud owners of Kia's & Hyundai with many trouble free miles!
So you must be shocked that I have had many trouble free miles with my Jeep, Chevy, and Pontiac.
No... But that won't make me buy their products... We had a pretty trouble free K-Car back in the 80's but then after that we we had lots of troubles with our Mini-van and other Domestic cars so we started buying Honda and it all stopped, then in the most recent years we have been purchasing Hyundai/Kia, and no troubles...
Trouble is on the horizon for the foreign automakers as well. This is a perfect storm that has little to do with the big 3 business model. No one forsaw 4 doller per gallon gas combined with the credit crisis. Let's see where other manufacturers are in six months. GM had huge cash reserves that have been depleted at a mega-rate. They had cash reserves because they had a viable business model.
Property taxes on those big dealerships must be huge, they are usually prime commercial.
Originally Posted By: IndyFan
Trouble is on the horizon for the foreign automakers as well. This is a perfect storm that has little to do with the big 3 business model.
It will be difficult for all manufacturers, but your business model has everything to do with your odds of surviving a "perfect storm".
Quote:
No one forsaw 4 doller per gallon gas combined with the credit crisis.
Manufacturers outside the US have been making money with their products in countries where gas has been over $4/gallon, as much as $9/gallon in worse economies for decades. Smart companies can make money under those conditions.
Trouble is on the horizon for the foreign automakers as well. This is a perfect storm that has little to do with the big 3 business model.
It will be difficult for all manufacturers, but your business model has everything to do with your odds of surviving a "perfect storm".
Quote:
No one forsaw 4 doller per gallon gas combined with the credit crisis.
Manufacturers outside the US have been making money with their products in countries where gas has been over $4/gallon, as much as $9/gallon in worse economies for decades. Smart companies can make money under those conditions.
Originally Posted By: JDD
OK--so you all know about the Bill Heard Chevrolet group going bankrupt. Went from the world's largest volume Chev dealer in 2007 to out of business in one year. Why--well they made their mark selling vehicles to bad credit people and using shady tactics. When the credit market dried up for those buyers, they had nothting left. People can still go to their local credit union or bank and get a car loan if you have good credit. Those people generally buy foreign makes. The Big 3 have been pushing SUVs to poor credit risks for far too long hoping that gas would stay cheap while neglecting the inevitable need to make money selling high MPG cars that are reliable. Now that gas is cheap again, it doesn't matter since the economy is in the dumps. It's a broken business model that had to crash at some point. Dealers building palaces from which to sell cars is neither effecient or necessary to move product. It just makes for a high pressure, unenjoyable buying experience. And it's not just the legacy costs that everyone talks about, though they do need to go away. Detroit needs new blood and new thinking and new cutting edge technology that this, the greatest country the world has ever seen, can provide. If not, a bailout won't matter in the slightest. If Detroit cannot innovate--it will end up on the trash heap of business history. It's actually a great opportunity to start over when you think about it.
OK, let's get this straight from the start: DEALERSHIPS ARE PRIVATLEY OWNED AND OPERATED BUSINESSES! The manufacturers do not operate them so please leave the "big 3' out of this one. There's enough to blame on the big 3, but the dealers do it to themselves. Also, when a person says something like "I work for GM" - but they really work in a dealership...they DO NOT work for GM, but for the dealership owner.
OK--so you all know about the Bill Heard Chevrolet group going bankrupt. Went from the world's largest volume Chev dealer in 2007 to out of business in one year. Why--well they made their mark selling vehicles to bad credit people and using shady tactics. When the credit market dried up for those buyers, they had nothting left. People can still go to their local credit union or bank and get a car loan if you have good credit. Those people generally buy foreign makes. The Big 3 have been pushing SUVs to poor credit risks for far too long hoping that gas would stay cheap while neglecting the inevitable need to make money selling high MPG cars that are reliable. Now that gas is cheap again, it doesn't matter since the economy is in the dumps. It's a broken business model that had to crash at some point. Dealers building palaces from which to sell cars is neither effecient or necessary to move product. It just makes for a high pressure, unenjoyable buying experience. And it's not just the legacy costs that everyone talks about, though they do need to go away. Detroit needs new blood and new thinking and new cutting edge technology that this, the greatest country the world has ever seen, can provide. If not, a bailout won't matter in the slightest. If Detroit cannot innovate--it will end up on the trash heap of business history. It's actually a great opportunity to start over when you think about it.
OK, let's get this straight from the start: DEALERSHIPS ARE PRIVATLEY OWNED AND OPERATED BUSINESSES! The manufacturers do not operate them so please leave the "big 3' out of this one. There's enough to blame on the big 3, but the dealers do it to themselves. Also, when a person says something like "I work for GM" - but they really work in a dealership...they DO NOT work for GM, but for the dealership owner.
Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn
Originally Posted By: heathenbrewing
The Big 3 are run by greedy CEO's that look at how to fatten their paycheck...
We need a shoe throwing moment here.
Yes, thrown at YOU for such drivel. I'm soooo sick of hearing about greedy CEO's, how great Japan is "noble", how big vehicles are the bain to our existence, how the U.S. is awful, we all suck, we want big cars, that's not noble.
How many times are we going to hear about how terrible we are as a society, how terrible our choices are??
X2. But this has become such a liberal/biased forum that I don't think it'll ever stop.
Originally Posted By: heathenbrewing
The Big 3 are run by greedy CEO's that look at how to fatten their paycheck...
We need a shoe throwing moment here.
Yes, thrown at YOU for such drivel. I'm soooo sick of hearing about greedy CEO's, how great Japan is "noble", how big vehicles are the bain to our existence, how the U.S. is awful, we all suck, we want big cars, that's not noble.
How many times are we going to hear about how terrible we are as a society, how terrible our choices are??
X2. But this has become such a liberal/biased forum that I don't think it'll ever stop.
Originally Posted By: JDD
OK--so you all know about the Bill Heard Chevrolet group going bankrupt. Went from the world's largest volume Chev dealer in 2007 to out of business in one year. Why--well they made their mark selling vehicles to bad credit people and using shady tactics. When the credit market dried up for those buyers, they had nothting left.
That's the way our local Toyota/Kia/Hyundai/Mazda dealership operates.
When I check out the repo'd car at local banks, it is this dealer's name on the trunk 5 to 1 over any other dealer in the area. I won't set foot on this dealership's lot.
I can't wait for them to go under as Bill Heard did.
OK--so you all know about the Bill Heard Chevrolet group going bankrupt. Went from the world's largest volume Chev dealer in 2007 to out of business in one year. Why--well they made their mark selling vehicles to bad credit people and using shady tactics. When the credit market dried up for those buyers, they had nothting left.
That's the way our local Toyota/Kia/Hyundai/Mazda dealership operates.
When I check out the repo'd car at local banks, it is this dealer's name on the trunk 5 to 1 over any other dealer in the area. I won't set foot on this dealership's lot.
I can't wait for them to go under as Bill Heard did.
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