How did I know was a rookie?
The ATF "lifetime fluid" lie continues
- Thread starter flinter
- Start date
- Status
I just did a drain and fill last weekend on my 2006 Corolla with 94,400 miles on the original fluid. That model is a lifetime fill ATF. Described in a different thread. It came out dark red but was still working fine. By driving it up on ramps I drained a full four quarts of the 7.7 qt capacity: more than half. A dealer drain and fill on a lift can only get three quarts out because the car is level. Raised the front up on ramps at a steep ange and much more ATF drains out. The original fluid was still fine and the car was running fine.
The problem is that during the past 10 years most manufacturers have eliminated the transmission dipstick as well as the drain bolt underneath. That is a crime. You cannot even check the level nor the condition of the fluid on most cars that have a regular automatic. Doing it on my Corolla took half an hour and most of that was waiting for the fluid to drain out. Remove one drain plug and done. Filled it with a funnel in the dipstick tube.
On newer models you can no longer change ATF yourself and nor even check its condition and fluid level yourself. It has to go to the mechanic.
Otherwise you need a hoist which almost no do it yourself maintainer has. Then the car needs a scan tool to measure ATF temperature and engine RPM; you need a specially calibrated Toyota tool that replaces the dipstick but inserts into the drain bolt opening. It is an adjustable height straw calibrated to ATF temperature. You also need a special vacuum tool that attaches to the fill port and puts a vacuum on the transmission so you can install the measurement tool without fluid gushing out and burning you. The you need to disconnect the vacuum line and watch fluid com out the tube, if it gushes out the transmission was over-filled. If no fluid comes out it was under-filled. Finally, you need a transfer pump to pump in fluid until it gushes out the tube, then wait until the drip stops. Now the correct amount of ATF is in there. But you’re not done yet; now you have to turn on 3 PSI vacuum again, so you can remove the measuring straw/dipstick and put back the drain plug. Then release vacuum, remove that fitting from the fill plug, and put the fill plug back on.
That is just a hugely complicated labor intensive (expensive) procedure just to check ATF fluid level requiring a scan tool, special adjustable straw measurement tool, vacuum pump with valves and fittings and a fluid transfer pump. All of of that just to replace a dipstick.
The problem is that during the past 10 years most manufacturers have eliminated the transmission dipstick as well as the drain bolt underneath. That is a crime. You cannot even check the level nor the condition of the fluid on most cars that have a regular automatic. Doing it on my Corolla took half an hour and most of that was waiting for the fluid to drain out. Remove one drain plug and done. Filled it with a funnel in the dipstick tube.
On newer models you can no longer change ATF yourself and nor even check its condition and fluid level yourself. It has to go to the mechanic.
Otherwise you need a hoist which almost no do it yourself maintainer has. Then the car needs a scan tool to measure ATF temperature and engine RPM; you need a specially calibrated Toyota tool that replaces the dipstick but inserts into the drain bolt opening. It is an adjustable height straw calibrated to ATF temperature. You also need a special vacuum tool that attaches to the fill port and puts a vacuum on the transmission so you can install the measurement tool without fluid gushing out and burning you. The you need to disconnect the vacuum line and watch fluid com out the tube, if it gushes out the transmission was over-filled. If no fluid comes out it was under-filled. Finally, you need a transfer pump to pump in fluid until it gushes out the tube, then wait until the drip stops. Now the correct amount of ATF is in there. But you’re not done yet; now you have to turn on 3 PSI vacuum again, so you can remove the measuring straw/dipstick and put back the drain plug. Then release vacuum, remove that fitting from the fill plug, and put the fill plug back on.
That is just a hugely complicated labor intensive (expensive) procedure just to check ATF fluid level requiring a scan tool, special adjustable straw measurement tool, vacuum pump with valves and fittings and a fluid transfer pump. All of of that just to replace a dipstick.
You don't need a hoist. I use ramps for the front of the car and then use a floor jack to raise the rear . I have a second set of ramps that can be split and put under the rear tires. They are plastic and available at Harbor Freight Tools.
@wdn most American cars never had a transmission drain plug to begin with. Ford, GM, and Chrysler almost never have them.
The only GM cars you'll find transmission drain plugs on are the cars they sell in other markets (and the versions they import to the US), transmissions they make for other companies (many European cars of the 80s and 90s used a GM transmission), captive imports (like the Pontiac Vibe and their Geo cars), and the Saturn S-series. For most of their other cars, you can get an aftermarket pan, but I haven't seen one for the THM125c (the 3-speed auto they used in the 80s and 90s)
Ford owned Mazda for a long time, and they shared some engines and transmissions, such as the 4F27E. Mazda includes a drain plug, Ford doesn't. It's the same transmission. You can go to the Mazda dealer and get the Mazda pan, and it will fit perfect on a Ford.
The Japanese almost always (used to) include a drain plug, stopping only recently like you said.
The only GM cars you'll find transmission drain plugs on are the cars they sell in other markets (and the versions they import to the US), transmissions they make for other companies (many European cars of the 80s and 90s used a GM transmission), captive imports (like the Pontiac Vibe and their Geo cars), and the Saturn S-series. For most of their other cars, you can get an aftermarket pan, but I haven't seen one for the THM125c (the 3-speed auto they used in the 80s and 90s)
Ford owned Mazda for a long time, and they shared some engines and transmissions, such as the 4F27E. Mazda includes a drain plug, Ford doesn't. It's the same transmission. You can go to the Mazda dealer and get the Mazda pan, and it will fit perfect on a Ford.
The Japanese almost always (used to) include a drain plug, stopping only recently like you said.
That's funny. My AMC from that era ($100 college car) was one of the few transmissions that failed me.
Recently bought a used 2015 Lexus with 72,000 on it. they traded it in with a bunch of issues, but I found them and Carmax made good on their warranty. It drove well enough after new tires and brakes, but there was a night and day difference with a 70% atf swap. I have no complaints about Toyota WS, but I would not call it a lifetime fluid.
recently did a drain/fill on a friends 4 cyl Camry at 80,000. The difference was present but not as pronounced. She’s a 3rd grade teacher, drives conservatively.
just last weekend did a differential fluid change on my ‘18 f150. That lube came out pitch black like engine oil at 5,000. Never seen anything like it. Refilled with amsoil svg 75-90. Truck is notably quieter. (also swapped out a few quarts of atf too). Glad I did it.
most of the cars I’ve had, I bought at over 100,000. on all of them I change the fluid. They have all driven better. One Volvo had the normal p1 Volvo 1-2 shift flare. 2 drain fills with amsoil atf, and 20,000 miles later the flare was gone.
i just don’t buy in to the lifetime fluid thinking. I think that a lifetime fill can get the trans to 150k, but then it’s looking at being done, depending on driving styles and design.
my fam has a Honda Civic... probably around 04, with over 350k on it, and its not had an easy life. Hauls kayaks in the Rockies, if that says anything. Just got a new HG. I changed the trans fluid to amsoil at 100k, probably again around 200k the next time I saw it, and the trans is still solid and predictable at over 350.
recently did a drain/fill on a friends 4 cyl Camry at 80,000. The difference was present but not as pronounced. She’s a 3rd grade teacher, drives conservatively.
just last weekend did a differential fluid change on my ‘18 f150. That lube came out pitch black like engine oil at 5,000. Never seen anything like it. Refilled with amsoil svg 75-90. Truck is notably quieter. (also swapped out a few quarts of atf too). Glad I did it.
most of the cars I’ve had, I bought at over 100,000. on all of them I change the fluid. They have all driven better. One Volvo had the normal p1 Volvo 1-2 shift flare. 2 drain fills with amsoil atf, and 20,000 miles later the flare was gone.
i just don’t buy in to the lifetime fluid thinking. I think that a lifetime fill can get the trans to 150k, but then it’s looking at being done, depending on driving styles and design.
my fam has a Honda Civic... probably around 04, with over 350k on it, and its not had an easy life. Hauls kayaks in the Rockies, if that says anything. Just got a new HG. I changed the trans fluid to amsoil at 100k, probably again around 200k the next time I saw it, and the trans is still solid and predictable at over 350.
Actually from 1972-on AMC used the Chrysler Torqueflite transmission, one of the best and most reliable ever made. At least if you ignored the "no maintenance required" nonsense in the owners manual and changed the transmission fluid periodically.
I've been lucky with ATF drain plugs and dipstick tubes. Had them on my '02 Escape, '09 Fusion and now on my '15 SRX.
I do the first drain 'n fill around 15,000 miles.
I do the first drain 'n fill around 15,000 miles.
Just because the trans pan has a drain plug does not mean it should be serviced on a certain schedule.
My 1972 Gremlin was one of the most reliable vehicles I've ever owned. It also had the uber-reliable Jeep 6-cylinder engine and bulletproof Ford rear axle. Looks like AMC married the best components from the various American makers.
If the car manufacturers state the transmission has lifetime fluid then that’s what it is . Don’t change the fluid trust what manufacturers and engineers put in the manual’s
Just yesterday I a drain and fill on my Subaru CVT with 61000 miles. I don't buy the lifetime fluid line when Subaru says the severe service interval is 24000 miles.
MolaKule
Staff member
This topic has been beat to death so we'll close the thread.
- Status
Similar threads
