The ATF "lifetime fluid" lie continues

[flinter]

Hi,

This is laughable about my 2017 Hyundai Elantra...

I called several local Hyundai dealers in cenrtral NJ and ALL of them use the same line....."the transmission is a sealed system and its a lifetime fluid".
Really?? So how come the owners manual for my 2017 Elantra CLEARLY states to change transmission fluid at 60K? Why do the dealers continue to push this lie??
How can it be a "sealed system" if there is a drain plug and fill plug?? I dont get it.

 

[Leo99]

They don't want to service it. The lifetime fluid on my Rav4 almost lasted 400k miles. So, yeah, it's not lifetime. But it's pretty good.

 

[doublebase]

Yeah, I don’t get the logic. Hate that manufacturers try to pull this stuff here.

I owned a Lexus that had the same “lifetime” BS, but in Canada the same car by Lexus had a 60,000 mile change interval and in the Middle East had an even shorter one.

 

[bbhero]

My opinion is that how the vehicle is operated on a routine basis should be a factor in how often to change the transmission fluid. Nothing wrong with following the owner's manual.

If one is doing a lot of stop and go driving which leads to higher average temperature in the transmission... Then changing the fluid is much more necessary vs a vehicle that is running at highway speeds where constant air flow keeps the average transmission temperature lower.

I changed my CVT transmission fluid at 283k plus miles. 4 drain and refills done since then.

A lifetime for a lot of people by is likely around 150-200k miles. I definitely beat that.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Hi,

This is laughable about my 2017 Hyundai Elantra...

I called several local Hyundai dealers in cenrtral NJ and ALL of them use the same line....."the transmission is a sealed system and its a lifetime fluid".
Really?? So how come the owners manual for my 2017 Elantra CLEARLY states to change transmission fluid at 60K? Why do the dealers continue to push this lie??
How can it be a "sealed system" if there is a drain plug and fill plug?? I dont get it.

Jiffy Lube and VIOC will do it

The car will rust before the transmission is old enough to have problems.

They don't want to service it. The lifetime fluid on my Rav4 almost lasted 400k miles. So, yeah, it's not lifetime. But it's pretty good.

Most cars go to the junkyard on their factory fill ATF and never have it changed.

 

[750IX]

Bmw use transmissions from ZF, Bmw say lifetime, ZF claim the fluid should be replaced at 50k miles or 8 years. I follow ZF`s recommendation.
Bmw lifetime means that the transmissions are tested to 100,000 miles with an "acceptable rate of failure" on the original fill. After that the warranty is out and the failure is the owners problem.

Why BMW's "Lifetime" Automatic Transmission Fill Doesn't Actually Mean "Lifetime"

The trend in the automotive industry (and this is not just BMW, but every manufacturer) has been to increase service intervals to reduce the cost of ownership artificially. The issue with this is those intervals have been proven to be detrimental to the long term reliability and service life of...

blog.fcpeuro.com

 

[demarpaint]

They make some nice money when those who actually maintain their vehicles bring it in to have the transmission serviced. I'd learn how to do it myself if I didn't know how already. Then rest assured it was done right. If something as simple as an oil change can get screwed up at a dealership, one can only imagine what could happen to a transmission. Having said that, there are plenty of good techs working at dealerships, the key is finding one, and knowing he/she is actually going to do the job on your car.

 

[MrHorspwer]

So how come the owners manual for my 2017 Elantra CLEARLY states to change transmission fluid at 60K? Why do the dealers continue to push this lie??

I just pulled your 2017 owner's manual. There is no scheduled atf service interval for normal operation. Severe usage has the 60K interval.

Why not say that in your post? Why the hyperbole, all caps, and outrage?

While you say the manual "CLEARLY" says 60K, I'd call splitting it between normal and severe quite ambiguous. At least Hyundai gives a decently clear definition of what they consider "severe".

 

[tblt44]

If you get it done ask for a drain and fill, not a flush,
I do drain and fills. Ya it doesn't get all the fluid out but you may get 80% out

 

[SoNic67]

Hyundai accepted that in US most of the cars are fit to the "severe" regime description. Stop and go urban traffic, high ambient temperatures...
If one drives only on highway, in Canada, probably that the fluid is lifetime.
My "lifetime" fluids in Toyota and Kia were black at only 60-70 k miles.

 

[Lyman]

I did a complete fluid exchange on my Escape at 60k. I will do it again at 120k.

 

[750IX]

Here is my last oilchange on front and rear diff with 85k miles on it and ZF 8HP70 and transfercase with 40k miles on it. There are still some colour left in the oil and not any burned smell but i am not comfortable to wait any longer.
From left front differential, transfercase, ZF transmission and rear differential.

 

[sparky123]

I just did a drain and fill (2X) on a 15' Kia Forte auto transmission. 109K and original factory fill. Oh my! The drain plug magnet was totally covered w/black metal shaving and the fluid was totally nasty. Filled w/ Valvoline Maxlife. Noticeable difference in the way the transmission shifted. Will do another D/F in a few months on this Forte. The procedure was relatively easy. Lifetime....no way. Just be aware the fluid comes out FAST because of the large drain plug!

 

[nicholas]

Just did a drain and fill on a 19 santa fe with 20 000kms.
Lots of metal on the plug.
Hopefully the next drain will have less. It had too much for my taste. It has an 8 speed trans.
Lots of city shifts.
I know it was early but all we do is short trip city driving. No highway.
I went with actual usage vs kms. Glad I did.

Yes...lifetime fluid is only there to sell you another trans just after the warranty expires. Its total BS.

 

[whosmatt]

My opinion is that how the vehicle is operated on a routine basis should be a factor in how often to change the transmission fluid. Nothing wrong with following the owner's manual.

Yep. When I got my truck (2018 Frontier 4x4) I was surprised that the maintenance schedule didn't seem to call for transmission fluid changes. Then I read the "severe" schedule which says to change it every 20k miles. That's a huge gulf, and in reality most people fall somewhere in between "normal" and "severe" operating. Since a simple drain / refill typically gets maybe half the fluid in the system I'm ok with just doing that every 20k since yes, I tow, and yes I operate off road but I don't *always* do those things.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Why are Hyundai service managers telling customers its a sealed system and not serviceable when there is a drain plug and fill port? The statement defies logic.

No dog in this fight but to clear up any innocent misunderstanding....

In "machine speak" a "sealed system" generically means its enclosed to itself ( usually means doesn't vent to atmosphere) and nothing more. Its not saying its welded shut or anything like that.

"Not serviceable" is also normally generic and means there is no "routine" maintenance or adjustment required based on whatever normal criteria is established- not that it "cant" be or 'shouldn't" be.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

I called several local Hyundai dealers in cenrtral NJ and ALL of them use the same line....."the transmission is a sealed system and its a lifetime fluid".

Again, "lifetime" is a worn out advertising term over a century old and universally means whatever the writer says it means.

In most mechanical cases ( that I have dealt with but this is nowhere near meant to address every usage of the term in history) "lifetime" refers to the L-10 life or expected service life ( of course operated within design limits)- not "infinity" nor is it unconditional.

In other words, unless you know the definition and conditions of the term in the specific application- its meaningless.

 

[buck91]

They don't want to service it. The lifetime fluid on my Rav4 almost lasted 400k miles. So, yeah, it's not lifetime. But it's pretty good.

That’s pretty **** satisfactory! Is that a typical result in that transmission?

 

[philipp10]

Well I assume these sealed transmissions,while not truly sealed do have a filter on the vent. So what can get in except a bit of moisture which, when it gets heated, would vent off. I believe in lifetime fluid as long as you have a well designed tranny. I have a 2008 RAV4, 110k miles and no intention of changing it. The fluid looks as good as the day it was new. And that is also true of my 2007 Pontiac Vibe. Fluid looks fine.

Now....if your fluid looks burnt...get rid it the POS as it is a poorly designed transmission and no amount of fluid changes is going to save it.

 

[SoNic67]

Well I assume these sealed transmissions,while not truly sealed do have a filter on the vent. So what can get in except a bit of moisture which, when it gets heated, would vent off. I believe in lifetime fluid as long as you have a well designed tranny. I have a 2008 RAV4, 110k miles and no intention of changing it. The fluid looks as good as the day it was new. And that is also true of my 2007 Pontiac Vibe. Fluid looks fine.

Now....if your fluid looks burnt...get rid it the POS as it is a poorly designed transmission and no amount of fluid changes is going to save it.

You can't tell how the fluid looks just by looking at the dipstick. All transmission fluids have a temperature range in which they last "lifetime". If your car is driven only on highway, the transmission temperature will seldom go above 175 F. That can last indefinitelly.
But if you drive in a southern latitude, modern city, with stop and go traffic and temperatures in summer around 100F, then the transmission fluid will definitely hit 200+ F. And that quickly shortens the life of that fluid. No matter who designed that car.
Want to see an OE Toyota transmission fluid at 73k miles driven in city (transmission that you seem to think it's designed by magical elves)? Here it is from my 2011 RAV4, drained this year: