That's all folks....last Aussie car produced today

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Originally Posted By: JFAllen
P.S: I'm honestly surprised that one of the Korea or Indian firms didn't swoop in and get all the plant at fire sale prices. I guess they don't want to go though the union bull-dust (another reason and story part of the failure, for another day)


They go after R&D and value added knowledge. A plant, which I suspect has been underinvested, has very little value.
 
Originally Posted By: JFAllen
.... GM USA (much like ford USA) wouldn't let them make cars for the global market. ....


Well, they brought a couple of models here, with very modest sales goals, and give away pricing compared to what you guys had to pay, and barely met the goals with one, and the financial crisis did in any hope of significant sales of the latter.

I bought each model; personally, I think they are absolutely terrific cars, as good as anything I have ever owned, and I feel like I have owned some pretty decent cars. Mine is almost ten years old now, and I have zero inclination to replace it with anything else. I worry about spare body parts though, if it gets hit or something.

When Pontiac went away, I waffled between getting a G8 GXP and a Solstice, and went with the Solstice since I thought that would be more fun for the rest of the family, and I already owned one G8. It just sits under a cover, never gets driven, so my assumptions wound up just wrong. I don't regret getting the Sol, but I've come to regret not buying both of them. They were pretty much giving them away.

Sorry to see the real thing go away. The replacements will have the right brand, but won't have the right stuff.
 
I think they are missing the point, opportunity ... They both had terrific "El Camino/Ranchero" styled pick-ups with gusto and charm. They could have kept building those for the world market. We'd love to have gotten them here in the USA
smile.gif


There would be a slug of them sold into suburbia and into the mini-ranch set. If they towed a horse trailer adequately, horse gals would buy them by the dozen.

If there was a blower Falcon pick-up on sale at the local Ford store, it would be the only new vehicle I would consider, period. They could keep all the rest, from any MFG ...
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: ATex7239


...There are people I personally know, who work in automotive manufacturing, who think assembly workers should have the same wage as tradesmen (plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc.) Which is utter nonsense when you compare the job related tasks, training, and certifications require to do each respective job.

When low-skilled assembly workers unionize and/or demand higher wages, it sounds great in theory. But, they are unknowningly contributing to their own future layoff. It would be great if an assembly line worker straight out of high school with a little on-the-job training could make the same money as skilled tradesmen with yrs of experience and certifications.

But unfortunately, and as the comments about gov't funding for Holden likely indicate, ecoonmics do not work that way for long... or at least not without the tax payer propping it up.


thumbsup2.gif


Unfortunately, when government officials collude with Unions for subsidies, one sees that that business model usually doesn't last for very long.

Governments and Unions are both financial blood suckers.


The whole idea behind Brexit is to close the borders and dial back globalization - keep local jobs local. You'd think the Brits would have checked with the Aussies on just how that plays out...
 
I went to Australia 20 years ago as a kid to visit my uncle - I remember seeing a Holden dealership on the outskirts of Brisbane and lots of Commodores were on the road. I was expecting to see rebadged RHD Chevy when I did see the GM logo.

Sad for Australia - but with economics and the unique need of Aussie roads making it more of a niche market, I can see why GM, Ford and Toyota wind down their operations there. Why didn't GM create a Cadillac or Camaro based replacement for the Commodore instead of slapping the Holden logos onto a Opel?
 
Funny thing about unions is that the model they have in Germany seems to work very well there.

VW were in favor of bring works councils to the US. Could have been a win win, especially since so many people are for higher paying manufacturing jobs.
 
Governments pick winners in business and it ultimately becomes the kiss of death. There are those that mysteriously disappear with large sums of cash that to the public appears to just disappear. This makes the business model look like a planned corruption after the fact. Money is made up front and in reality that's the business model and the fallout is dumped on the taxpayers. So, for the politicians and the businessmen on the front end of the deal, it's the reincarnation of P.T. Barnum.
 
Originally Posted By: jaj
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: ATex7239


...There are people I personally know, who work in automotive manufacturing, who think assembly workers should have the same wage as tradesmen (plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc.) Which is utter nonsense when you compare the job related tasks, training, and certifications require to do each respective job.

When low-skilled assembly workers unionize and/or demand higher wages, it sounds great in theory. But, they are unknowningly contributing to their own future layoff. It would be great if an assembly line worker straight out of high school with a little on-the-job training could make the same money as skilled tradesmen with yrs of experience and certifications.

But unfortunately, and as the comments about gov't funding for Holden likely indicate, ecoonmics do not work that way for long... or at least not without the tax payer propping it up.


thumbsup2.gif


Unfortunately, when government officials collude with Unions for subsidies, one sees that that business model usually doesn't last for very long.

Governments and Unions are both financial blood suckers.


The whole idea behind Brexit is to close the borders and dial back globalization - keep local jobs local. You'd think the Brits would have checked with the Aussies on just how that plays out...



I'm really okay with globalisation. I'm okay with immigration too. Immediately prior to the Brexit vote, the UK was firing on all cylinders for the first time in my living memory. We had a strong pound, low unemployment, low inflation and very little industrial unrest. We had considerable inward investment (including from the Chinese), we had some world beating companies in a variety of sectors, we had a flexible work force, we had cheap and efficient healthcare and we had considerable autonomy from the EU club we had joined 40 odd years back.

So what do we do? We get a bunch of self-seeking, rabble rousing right-wing nut jobs, added and abetted by some of our right-wing nut job newspapers, firing up the mob with right-wing nut job propaganda to vote to return to the nostalgic 1950s when everyone was happy and unicorns roamed the land! It would be lovely it if wasn't totally fictitious. Talk about what snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...
 
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
I'm really okay with globalisation. I'm okay with immigration too. Immediately prior to the Brexit vote, the UK was firing on all cylinders for the first time in my living memory. We had a strong pound, low unemployment, low inflation and very little industrial unrest. We had considerable inward investment (including from the Chinese), we had some world beating companies in a variety of sectors, we had a flexible work force, we had cheap and efficient healthcare and we had considerable autonomy from the EU club we had joined 40 odd years back.

So what do we do? We get a bunch of self-seeking, rabble rousing right-wing nut jobs, added and abetted by some of our right-wing nut job newspapers, firing up the mob with right-wing nut job propaganda to vote to return to the nostalgic 1950s when everyone was happy and unicorns roamed the land! It would be lovely it if wasn't totally fictitious. Talk about what snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...


I read that a lot of people afterwards said they didn't understand what they were voting for and it wasn't explained to them. Doesn't sound like everything was ok in the country if a large proportion of the electorate are incapable of informing themselves before voting.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
In a few years all will be made in China.


Possibly true but the advanced engine tech might come out of Germany, the styling out of Italy, the interior styling out of France, the advanced turbo designs out of Japan, the production factory designs out of the US, the emissions compliance systems of out the UK, etc, etc. Bolting bits together on a production line is very visible and employs a lot of bodies but it's only one part of the chain that creates, builds and markets cars. No doubt the Chinese will move Heaven and Earth to do as much as they can but my guess is right now, the great bulk of the very high level expertise employed will reside outside of China.
 
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Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Government can only support a car manufacturer for so long .

It also doesn't help the people not buying vehicles that are manufactured in their own country.


Oz is strange in history.

The Brits wanted us as a colony, but didn't want to have the responsibility, so we ended up with an entire manufacturing base for our defence (Australian Defence Industries...anyone who uses "varget" is using their powder)....they did everything, much like Norinco and the like back in the '70s and '80s...After the 1996 Gun stuff, they were prevented (by their only shareholder) from making civilian firearms, and miscellaneous compontnety for industry...ran at a loss, got privatised.

GM did similarly with Holden...GFC "you are in your own"...coupled with restrictions on what they could sell where...Utes would have sold all over, but can't go there.

Historically, we've always been self sufficent.

But over the last few decades, things have changed...we dig stuff up and sell it...lots of it. We used to value add, but now we just dig it up and sell it. At the mercy of global commodities prices and certain fringe groups who will do everything to stimy and stand in the way of minerals extraction.

Our crazy energy policies (driven by above groups) have created the most expensive, least relable energy that the country has seen....causing demand destruction as manufacturing can't buy the energy that they need (my company is really fighting to find ways of helping).

The talking heads keep talking about a "service economy" that we need to transition to.

Baristas buying haircuts and hair dressers buying coffee just isn't sustainable...it's not a zero sum game, it bleeds out.

I'm the last one who wanted Govt propping for the car industry.

You've got Elon Musk calling for a Basic Universal Income, as he knows that if his plans for automation come together, no-one will have an income bearing job to buy his toys, so needs people to get money from something other than their labour.

Where does THAT money come from ?

Seems like it's a "pay me now or pay me later" process...and like a lot of this stuff, watch the experiment play out in Oz.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Basic Universal Income


is very good economics. Replaces and radically simplifies the existing welfare systems, is better than promoting individual responsibility than existing "handouts", and removes the disincentive to work if you are on welfare.

It's a good idea that would be better for everybody but it's hard for people to get their heads around.
 
Originally Posted By: ATex7239

There are people I personally know, who work in automotive manufacturing, who think assembly workers should have the same wage as tradesmen (plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc.) Which is utter nonsense when you compare the job related tasks, training, and certifications require to do each respective job.

When low-skilled assembly workers unionize and/or demand higher wages, it sounds great in theory. But, they are unknowningly contributing to their own future layoff. It would be great if an assembly line worker straight out of high school with a little on-the-job training could make the same money as skilled tradesmen with yrs of experience and certifications.



Thing is, the men in the corner office are always looking to yank the legs out from under those well-paid, skilled persons. Many machine shop operators are just loading metal and pushing a start button. If the machine dislikes its output an error flashes. They hire "machine operators" at a lower pay grade than the old-time machinists who could also have made that widget manually. They feel little to no need to keep the more-skilled around, and pretty soon as a country we've lost that skill set and aren't competitive.
 
I suspect this question of what to do with 'surplus workforce', when machines, the internet and advanced automation take over, is going to be something that all countries are going to have to grapple with sooner or later. Even China won't escape this as they rise up the food chain and jobs get exported to places like Africa.

Personally, I don't see it necessarily as a bad thing. It's just something else that the next generation of humanity will just have to adapt to. Given how cheap communication & computing have become, there has probably never been a better time to skill yourself up or become creative. No doubt some will thrive and others not.

There will have to be a massive redistribution of wealth and this will be very difficult politically. However if the rich employed think they can just let the poor unemployed starve to death, they had better think again or they will go the same way as Louis XIV, the Romanovs and the Shah. It would be really nice if for once in our existence we could effect a major change to the way we all live without shedding obscene amounts of blood. Time will tell...
 
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Personally, I don't see it necessarily as a bad thing. It's just something else that the next generation of humanity will just have to adapt to. Given how cheap communication & computing have become, there has probably never been a better time to skill yourself up or become creative. No doubt some will thrive and others not.


An an engineering mind with the "Knack" (Dilbert Reference), my daughter's leaning towards the arts, had me concerned...until I realised that en large, the engineers that I see coming out of Uni are doomed to having to totally re-invent themselves every 20 years at least, and try to grow in a diminishing pool.

So we are encouraging her music, dancing, singing, and art...which has helped massively in her dilligence and application in the sciences that I understand...she can evolve her career...and at 14, she's really really good.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Personally, I don't see it necessarily as a bad thing. It's just something else that the next generation of humanity will just have to adapt to. Given how cheap communication & computing have become, there has probably never been a better time to skill yourself up or become creative. No doubt some will thrive and others not.


An an engineering mind with the "Knack" (Dilbert Reference), my daughter's leaning towards the arts, had me concerned...until I realised that en large, the engineers that I see coming out of Uni are doomed to having to totally re-invent themselves every 20 years at least, and try to grow in a diminishing pool.

So we are encouraging her music, dancing, singing, and art...which has helped massively in her dilligence and application in the sciences that I understand...she can evolve her career...and at 14, she's really really good.


There's a technology company I visited last year that recently saved a major US manufacturer over $500 million in design costs for a new line of really big HD industrial machinery. This tech company makes some super-specialized software that converts engineering design files and CFD output into a 3D rendering at full scale. I walked around an empty warehouse, except to me the room wasn't empty: I was walking around a full-scale machine rendered in intricate detail.

A surprising number of folks with fine arts degrees work there, and they earn just as much as the software developers. It turns out that if you want to render a big structure like a truck or a refinery from the design files, trained artists have the skills to make it look real and software engineers don't.

So, if your child wants an art degree, get behind them - they're going to be in huge demand in a few years.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
In a few years all will be made in China.


When it’s China’s turn … Hyundai/Kia have a bunch of dumping to do first …
 
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