The guy who runs Blackstone recently did an interview in the BMW CCA Roundel magazine, and he indicates synthetics can last years in an engine of low mileage use.
Testing the "oil goes bad with age" theory
- Thread starter Atomic
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Reprint from 2010
This may be of interest because of the length of time the oil was used. 3 years 3 months. Car has an oil countdown gauge that starts a 10,00 miles. it still said I had about 6k miles left before change at 5k miles on the oil. then at approximately 3 years it read zero all of a sudden. which means it's time to change. I changed it about 400 miles later which said I was 400 miles overdue. Anyway, it looks to me that the recommended oil change is 10k or 3 years.
I was very pleased with the report since I purchased the car used and had no idea what what oil was used so I changed all fluids and filters, trans oil, brake oil, and coolant.
1999 Mercedes SLK 230 Supercharged
This may be of interest because of the length of time the oil was used. 3 years 3 months. Car has an oil countdown gauge that starts a 10,00 miles. it still said I had about 6k miles left before change at 5k miles on the oil. then at approximately 3 years it read zero all of a sudden. which means it's time to change. I changed it about 400 miles later which said I was 400 miles overdue. Anyway, it looks to me that the recommended oil change is 10k or 3 years.
I was very pleased with the report since I purchased the car used and had no idea what what oil was used so I changed all fluids and filters, trans oil, brake oil, and coolant.
1999 Mercedes SLK 230 Supercharged
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Originally Posted By: deven
Simply it's oil getting contaminated by soot and blow by. Oil slowly loses its capability to dissipate heat and hold soot/contaminants in suspension as it gets used more in an engine. These will definitely not show up in a UOA.
This seems questionable in all respects. Soot and blowby are going to be directly related to use, not standing time, which is most likely to involve (very slow) oxidation, condensation accumulation and perhaps some associated corrosion.
I'm no big fan of consumer-level UOA but I'd think it could detect soot and blowby. I believe at least some of them do a centrifugation whch would pick up solids, and they test for fuel dilution and water content which blowby would tend to generate.
Testing for water would also be relevent to a long stand. MAYBE corrosion would put more spectrometer detectable metals into the oil. I'd guess its likely to do a better job of detecting that than it does with mechanical wear fragments, a lot of which are too big.
Oxidation MIGHT be detactable as a viscosity change attributable to oxidative thickening, which is also likely to increase the TAN.
I believe varnish detection is tricky and not specifically targetted by a UOA, but if it were fairly advanced it would probably show up as a centrifuge pellet. IIRC delving further into that requires infrared spectroscopy and/or patch colourimetry, neither of which are offered in a standard UOA AFAIK.
There's always the blotter spot test, though its a bit hard to interpret.
Simply it's oil getting contaminated by soot and blow by. Oil slowly loses its capability to dissipate heat and hold soot/contaminants in suspension as it gets used more in an engine. These will definitely not show up in a UOA.
This seems questionable in all respects. Soot and blowby are going to be directly related to use, not standing time, which is most likely to involve (very slow) oxidation, condensation accumulation and perhaps some associated corrosion.
I'm no big fan of consumer-level UOA but I'd think it could detect soot and blowby. I believe at least some of them do a centrifugation whch would pick up solids, and they test for fuel dilution and water content which blowby would tend to generate.
Testing for water would also be relevent to a long stand. MAYBE corrosion would put more spectrometer detectable metals into the oil. I'd guess its likely to do a better job of detecting that than it does with mechanical wear fragments, a lot of which are too big.
Oxidation MIGHT be detactable as a viscosity change attributable to oxidative thickening, which is also likely to increase the TAN.
I believe varnish detection is tricky and not specifically targetted by a UOA, but if it were fairly advanced it would probably show up as a centrifuge pellet. IIRC delving further into that requires infrared spectroscopy and/or patch colourimetry, neither of which are offered in a standard UOA AFAIK.
There's always the blotter spot test, though its a bit hard to interpret.
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Originally Posted By: JAG
Oil in thin films, like often occurs on the sides of oil bottles can turn into an oxidized, sticky layer of varnish within several years. It never experienced blow-by, high temps., or the oxidation catalysts of iron and copper like oils used in engines have. I’d be most concerned about varnish from your old oil. How does it look inside the oil fill hole and dipstick?
Slight varnish in the fill hole and under the cap. Dipstick is completely clean, basically like new.
What does this mean? Idk. The old oil came out only slightly darkened, which I know doesn't tell us much.
Oil in thin films, like often occurs on the sides of oil bottles can turn into an oxidized, sticky layer of varnish within several years. It never experienced blow-by, high temps., or the oxidation catalysts of iron and copper like oils used in engines have. I’d be most concerned about varnish from your old oil. How does it look inside the oil fill hole and dipstick?
Slight varnish in the fill hole and under the cap. Dipstick is completely clean, basically like new.
What does this mean? Idk. The old oil came out only slightly darkened, which I know doesn't tell us much.
I'm betting the UOA will be ok. But will it have things like TAN and oxidation or just TBN with wear metals?
Oh and if you drove the RS in your signature like that, I'd call you silly but I bet you don't.
It is a 1997 car with an engine he doesn't care about. If he has cash to spend on a focus RS I bet he has some for a neat new engine in that old Camaro too
Oh and if you drove the RS in your signature like that, I'd call you silly but I bet you don't.
It is a 1997 car with an engine he doesn't care about. If he has cash to spend on a focus RS I bet he has some for a neat new engine in that old Camaro too
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4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Originally Posted By: Stevie
Reprint from 2010
This may be of interest because of the length of time the oil was used. 3 years 3 months. Car has an oil countdown gauge that starts a 10,00 miles. it still said I had about 6k miles left before change at 5k miles on the oil. then at approximately 3 years it read zero all of a sudden. which means it's time to change. I changed it about 400 miles later which said I was 400 miles overdue. Anyway, it looks to me that the recommended oil change is 10k or 3 years.
I was very pleased with the report since I purchased the car used and had no idea what what oil was used so I changed all fluids and filters, trans oil, brake oil, and coolant.
1999 Mercedes SLK 230 Supercharged
Nice
Reprint from 2010
This may be of interest because of the length of time the oil was used. 3 years 3 months. Car has an oil countdown gauge that starts a 10,00 miles. it still said I had about 6k miles left before change at 5k miles on the oil. then at approximately 3 years it read zero all of a sudden. which means it's time to change. I changed it about 400 miles later which said I was 400 miles overdue. Anyway, it looks to me that the recommended oil change is 10k or 3 years.
I was very pleased with the report since I purchased the car used and had no idea what what oil was used so I changed all fluids and filters, trans oil, brake oil, and coolant.
1999 Mercedes SLK 230 Supercharged
Nice
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4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: 4WD
I asked him a question and he answered it ...
Sure. I was reacting to Dallas69's post.
Yeah, I’m not judging after hearing the young driver part … my own guilt set in. Last couple years my father drove, he asked me to go inspect his car. A tire dealer did those … so with 2 good and 2 maybes we put 4 premium tires on the car, I paid …
He got a bit torqued up over it until I told him I probably owe him one more set
Originally Posted By: 4WD
I asked him a question and he answered it ...
Sure. I was reacting to Dallas69's post.
Yeah, I’m not judging after hearing the young driver part … my own guilt set in. Last couple years my father drove, he asked me to go inspect his car. A tire dealer did those … so with 2 good and 2 maybes we put 4 premium tires on the car, I paid …
He got a bit torqued up over it until I told him I probably owe him one more set
Starting up an engine and running it WOT in sub-zero weather for no reason just shows you don't respect your belongings. Give the car to someone who will respect it and beat on a piece of junk Maxima or Civic.
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Starting up an engine and running it WOT in sub-zero weather for no reason just shows you don't respect your belongings. Give the car to someone who will respect it and beat on a piece of junk Maxima or Civic.
You know what they say about opinions, and similarly, with assumptions...
Starting up an engine and running it WOT in sub-zero weather for no reason just shows you don't respect your belongings. Give the car to someone who will respect it and beat on a piece of junk Maxima or Civic.
You know what they say about opinions, and similarly, with assumptions...
Originally Posted By: Atomic
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Starting up an engine and running it WOT in sub-zero weather for no reason just shows you don't respect your belongings. Give the car to someone who will respect it and beat on a piece of junk Maxima or Civic.
You know what they say about opinions, and similarly, with assumptions...
No son, what do they say? When you discover how to treat an engine properly, you just let me know.
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Starting up an engine and running it WOT in sub-zero weather for no reason just shows you don't respect your belongings. Give the car to someone who will respect it and beat on a piece of junk Maxima or Civic.
You know what they say about opinions, and similarly, with assumptions...
No son, what do they say? When you discover how to treat an engine properly, you just let me know.
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Originally Posted By: Atomic
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Starting up an engine and running it WOT in sub-zero weather for no reason just shows you don't respect your belongings. Give the car to someone who will respect it and beat on a piece of junk Maxima or Civic.
You know what they say about opinions, and similarly, with assumptions...
No son, what do they say? When you discover how to treat an engine properly, you just let me know.
98% of people questioned here start up and drive off immediately without any warmup. How is that much different?
So I guess everybody here abuses their engines?
Originally Posted By: Atomic
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Starting up an engine and running it WOT in sub-zero weather for no reason just shows you don't respect your belongings. Give the car to someone who will respect it and beat on a piece of junk Maxima or Civic.
You know what they say about opinions, and similarly, with assumptions...
No son, what do they say? When you discover how to treat an engine properly, you just let me know.
98% of people questioned here start up and drive off immediately without any warmup. How is that much different?
So I guess everybody here abuses their engines?
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Originally Posted By: Atomic
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Starting up an engine and running it WOT in sub-zero weather for no reason just shows you don't respect your belongings. Give the car to someone who will respect it and beat on a piece of junk Maxima or Civic.
You know what they say about opinions, and similarly, with assumptions...
No son, what do they say? When you discover how to treat an engine properly, you just let me know.
98% of people questioned here start up and drive off immediately without any warmup. How is that much different?
So I guess everybody here abuses their engines?
98% drive off at WOT in sub-freezing weather after just starting up? Hmm...maybe we should take a poll. WOT being the key phrase here. If you do, yes, I'd call that unnecessary abuse. It's your engine though, so be my guest.
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Originally Posted By: Atomic
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Starting up an engine and running it WOT in sub-zero weather for no reason just shows you don't respect your belongings. Give the car to someone who will respect it and beat on a piece of junk Maxima or Civic.
You know what they say about opinions, and similarly, with assumptions...
No son, what do they say? When you discover how to treat an engine properly, you just let me know.
98% of people questioned here start up and drive off immediately without any warmup. How is that much different?
So I guess everybody here abuses their engines?
98% drive off at WOT in sub-freezing weather after just starting up? Hmm...maybe we should take a poll. WOT being the key phrase here. If you do, yes, I'd call that unnecessary abuse. It's your engine though, so be my guest.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Originally Posted By: Atomic
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Starting up an engine and running it WOT in sub-zero weather for no reason just shows you don't respect your belongings. Give the car to someone who will respect it and beat on a piece of junk Maxima or Civic.
You know what they say about opinions, and similarly, with assumptions...
No son, what do they say? When you discover how to treat an engine properly, you just let me know.
98% of people questioned here start up and drive off immediately without any warmup. How is that much different?
So I guess everybody here abuses their engines?
Starting it up and driving off vs. starting it up and driving WOT is a big difference. One is perfectly fine, the other will cause damage and additional wear over time.
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Originally Posted By: Atomic
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Starting up an engine and running it WOT in sub-zero weather for no reason just shows you don't respect your belongings. Give the car to someone who will respect it and beat on a piece of junk Maxima or Civic.
You know what they say about opinions, and similarly, with assumptions...
No son, what do they say? When you discover how to treat an engine properly, you just let me know.
98% of people questioned here start up and drive off immediately without any warmup. How is that much different?
So I guess everybody here abuses their engines?
Starting it up and driving off vs. starting it up and driving WOT is a big difference. One is perfectly fine, the other will cause damage and additional wear over time.
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
98% drive off at WOT in sub-freezing weather after just starting up? Hmm...maybe we should take a poll. WOT being the key phrase here. If you do, yes, I'd call that unnecessary abuse. It's your engine though, so be my guest.
Try reading the thread next time.
I have been very clear that I have treated the motor with complete and intentional disregard for almost 150k miles. I do not care if it dies tomorrow, next month, or next year, as it is getting a big turbo/supercharger build whenever it kicks the bucket.
98% drive off at WOT in sub-freezing weather after just starting up? Hmm...maybe we should take a poll. WOT being the key phrase here. If you do, yes, I'd call that unnecessary abuse. It's your engine though, so be my guest.
Try reading the thread next time.
I have been very clear that I have treated the motor with complete and intentional disregard for almost 150k miles. I do not care if it dies tomorrow, next month, or next year, as it is getting a big turbo/supercharger build whenever it kicks the bucket.
Originally Posted By: Atomic
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
98% drive off at WOT in sub-freezing weather after just starting up? Hmm...maybe we should take a poll. WOT being the key phrase here. If you do, yes, I'd call that unnecessary abuse. It's your engine though, so be my guest.
Try reading the thread next time.
I have been very clear that I have treated the motor with complete and intentional disregard for almost 150k miles. I do not care if it dies tomorrow, next month, or next year, as it is getting a big turbo/supercharger build whenever it kicks the bucket.
I did read it. Your argument is it isn't deleterious to the engine to do what you do. It is. If you were smart, you'd have taken better care and sold a well taken care of engine to someone. If you want to break your stuff intentionally, good for you.
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
98% drive off at WOT in sub-freezing weather after just starting up? Hmm...maybe we should take a poll. WOT being the key phrase here. If you do, yes, I'd call that unnecessary abuse. It's your engine though, so be my guest.
Try reading the thread next time.
I have been very clear that I have treated the motor with complete and intentional disregard for almost 150k miles. I do not care if it dies tomorrow, next month, or next year, as it is getting a big turbo/supercharger build whenever it kicks the bucket.
I did read it. Your argument is it isn't deleterious to the engine to do what you do. It is. If you were smart, you'd have taken better care and sold a well taken care of engine to someone. If you want to break your stuff intentionally, good for you.
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Originally Posted By: Atomic
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
98% drive off at WOT in sub-freezing weather after just starting up? Hmm...maybe we should take a poll. WOT being the key phrase here. If you do, yes, I'd call that unnecessary abuse. It's your engine though, so be my guest.
Try reading the thread next time.
I have been very clear that I have treated the motor with complete and intentional disregard for almost 150k miles. I do not care if it dies tomorrow, next month, or next year, as it is getting a big turbo/supercharger build whenever it kicks the bucket.
I did read it. Your argument is it isn't deleterious to the engine to do what you do. It is. If you were smart, you'd have taken better care and sold a well taken care of engine to someone. If you want to break your stuff intentionally, good for you.
Nothing broke - I don't understand your babbling here. The motor runs great and exhibits ZERO problems, noise or otherwise.
The whole point of this exercise was to see if the oil was still serviceable after all this time in the sump. And it is.
Originally Posted By: Atomic
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
98% drive off at WOT in sub-freezing weather after just starting up? Hmm...maybe we should take a poll. WOT being the key phrase here. If you do, yes, I'd call that unnecessary abuse. It's your engine though, so be my guest.
Try reading the thread next time.
I have been very clear that I have treated the motor with complete and intentional disregard for almost 150k miles. I do not care if it dies tomorrow, next month, or next year, as it is getting a big turbo/supercharger build whenever it kicks the bucket.
I did read it. Your argument is it isn't deleterious to the engine to do what you do. It is. If you were smart, you'd have taken better care and sold a well taken care of engine to someone. If you want to break your stuff intentionally, good for you.
Nothing broke - I don't understand your babbling here. The motor runs great and exhibits ZERO problems, noise or otherwise.
The whole point of this exercise was to see if the oil was still serviceable after all this time in the sump. And it is.
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