Tesla Stock

DwightFrye said:
Two important points:
1. The coverage of Musk's supposed anti-semitic statement reveals the bias of those so called news organizations. It's not as cut and dried as their sensationalist headlines would have you believe. Maybe some of those writers are vying for the Wm. Randolph Hearst Yellow Journalism Award.
2. Public figures, whether billionaires, politicians, ex-Presidents or celebrities should just shut up and stay off of social media platforms. Nothing good ever comes from it.
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I actually don’t disagree with you.
But that’s the problem when the media zeros in on you. In a negative way it’s very possible they may finish you off. It can become a freight train of negative publicity, warranted or not that’s impossible to stop.

It happens in every aspect of public life. The media has even taken down presidents by using content out of context.

We have to remember the public at large are not critical thinkers. Unable to or unwilling or not wanting to bother to separate fact from fiction, they believe what they hear and read 24 hours a day on their smart phone and television sets. There’s something about human beings, that love to see successful people taken down.
 
DwightFrye said:
Two important points:
1. The coverage of Musk's supposed anti-semitic statement reveals the bias of those so called news organizations. It's not as cut and dried as their sensationalist headlines would have you believe. Maybe some of those writers are vying for the Wm. Randolph Hearst Yellow Journalism Award.
2. Public figures, whether billionaires, politicians, ex-Presidents or celebrities should just shut up and stay off of social media platforms. Nothing good ever comes from it.
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Let's just say I choose to separate Musk's products from some of the stuff he says.
 
Disclaimer:
I do not invest based on media reports such as this. I take them with a grain of salt. Yet we all know my feelings on Tesla stock price. It peaked in 2021 and in my opinion its valuation is stupid high for an auto stock. I only see it going down, as it has been.
I did buy GM stock, a significant amount of it for "safety" at around $29 a share, I knew full well a strike was going to take place but when something is selling at (GM) 4 times earnings and a stock like Tesla at 74 times earnings. Well that says to me, the 4 times earnings price of the auto market leader in the USA for 90 years might be undervalued.

STRICTLY for me a short term trade. I have known this stock for over 4 decades, GM never goes anywhere *LOL* But at $29 it may go to $39 again in the coming year and that is a significant gain. Furthermore at 4 times earnings the down side in my opinion is limited. ( I am in a defensive mode)

Anyway Ive posted my reasoning before, just ran across this story today and again, I hate the media because if they were correct all the time they would take their own advice and not have to write columns *LOL*
This short piece does outline some of what I say though.
Time will tell, I do not want GM or any auto company long term. I almost consider Bitcoin safer, actually if I bought that instead a few months back I would be sitting nice right now.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2023...hoo-host&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=article
 
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im forecasting tesla bumping prices come jan to maximize the pos of sale credit. Every one else i assume is going go loose all the clever loopholes then sooo we shall see
 
proveitwithdata said:
im forecasting tesla bumping prices come jan to maximize the pos of sale credit. Every one else i assume is going go loose all the clever loopholes then sooo we shall see
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Yeah, I can see the EV industry in the USA getting a boast. If it all pans out, Americans will be able to buy cars without a penny down, further deeping their debt rabbit hole. *LOL*
I am pretty sure the credit might be able to used as the down payment. (I stress might) we will see. I do think we can see a bump. But if Tesla is struggling to move inventory it might be a wash. It's a wild gamble for any struggling industry and a stock like Tesla selling at 75 times earnings vs one like GM at 4 if one like to invest in the auto industry. Im not one of them and clearly biased.

One must keep in mind, the market looks forward, that credit might already be in the price and knowing that credit will one day be no more could mean nothing to the stock price.
 
alarmguy said:
Yeah, I can see the EV industry in the USA getting a boast. If it all pans out, Americans will be able to buy cars without a penny down.
I am pretty sure the credit might be able to used as the down payment. (I stress might) we will see.
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have they released the guidance on pos credit for vehicles in non compliance yet?
 
My take right now...

Tesla is down to one competitor in autonomous driving, since Cruise imploded. Waymo is the only remaining (serious) contender.

The less-than-amazing earnings in Q3 were temporary due to factory upgrades. Don't count on that to last forever.

Yep, they screwed up in designing a truck that's too hard to manufacture. It's a Model X situation all over again. Elon's pride.

Energy storage is another positive, and Tesla is looking likely to become the gas station of the future.
 
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ME_Andy said:
My take right now...

Tesla is down to one competitor in autonomous driving, since Cruise imploded. Waymo is the only remaining (serious) contender.

The less-than-amazing earnings in Q3 were temporary due to factory upgrades. Don't count on that to last forever.

Yep, they screwed up in designing a truck that's too hard to manufacture. It's a Model X situation all over again. Elon's pride.

Energy storage is another positive, and Tesla is looking likely to become the gas station of the future.
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Remember, everyone is trying to catch Tesla, who still has over 1/2 the EV market and no one else can even break even.
The Model 2 might be the nail in the coffin. Regardless, it will open up new markets for Tesla. And strike Toyota/Honda right in their market.
Finally, perhaps most important, no one improvises like Tesla. Who knows what they have up their sleeve? Tesla is playing chess while everyone else is learning checkers.
 
ME_Andy said:
My take right now...

Tesla is down to one competitor in autonomous driving, since Cruise imploded. Waymo is the only remaining (serious) contender.

The less-than-amazing earnings in Q3 were temporary due to factory upgrades. Don't count on that to last forever.

Yep, they screwed up in designing a truck that's too hard to manufacture. It's a Model X situation all over again. Elon's pride.

Energy storage is another positive, and Tesla is looking likely to become the gas station of the future.
Click to expand...
I don’t think that’s a like for like comparison. Waymo was actually using sensors and also using it as a transportation business model. Tesla’s system is a pretty advanced camera based driver’s aid that doesn’t make or break the business, though I’m sure they make a good amount off of it. The cars still exist outside of the technology.

I appreciate what Tesla is trying to do, but I feel that the premise for FSD to be camera only is shaky ground. I’m amazed at all those that have any faith that it will ever be out of beta with any car they’ve produced and currently on the road.

Is it cool? Sure, I guess. Is it what they’re selling it as? Not even close. Can you trust it? Technically no, there’s not a whole lot to trust. You’re required to watch and intervene if necessary. It has no possibility of not needing an overseeing eye in its current form.
 
Vercingetorix said:
Mercedes is the only manufacturer that has level 3 automated driving. They lead the world in automated driving, not Tesla, not Waymo.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kyleed...l-3-automated-driving-system/?sh=4770e7245c8e
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Not really. Honda Legend in 2021 was the first production vehicle with L3.

IMO these worlds firsts are quite entertaining. Mercedes only works on select motor ways, honda only sold in Japan, Tesla is learning on the job, Audi works in parking lots and Waymo is limited to their fleet vehicles with zero commercial partners to license their system.

Im still waiting on a key in solution.
 
proveitwithdata said:
Not really. Honda Legend in 2021 was the first production vehicle with L3.

IMO these worlds firsts are quite entertaining. Mercedes only works on select motor ways, honda only sold in Japan, Tesla is learning on the job, Audi works in parking lots and Waymo is limited to their fleet vehicles with zero commercial partners to license their system.

Im still waiting on a key in solution.
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That's because the Mercedes is geofenced in order to work as an L3. My understanding is GM is working on it but I don't know they've released anything L3 yet, but they're also geofencing to get there.

As far as the Honda Legend I had to look up to see if that name still existed. I don't know what markets had it, but it's a pretty good chance with this site that most things will be looked at from the angle of North America. Even that could shape what is required to reach full self driving. Possibly a country's requirements might allow a vehicle that could not be allowed to meet that standard elsewhere? The last is just a guess. I haven't done anything to study up worldwide on automated driving and I really don't have an interest in using it myself for various reasons.
 
alarmguy said:
GM over the UAW hurdle. Restated its 2023 guidance, announced stock buyback plan, announced increase in dividend.
UAW agreement in budgeted in for next year.

The next two years will be very interesting for the non-union auto makers.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/29/uaw-launches-union-campaigns-at-tesla-12-others.html
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Is General Motors $120 Billion Debt A Cause For Concern?​


$120 Billion in debt, high interest rates, and buyback stock and increasing dividends? hhmmmmmm.. fascinating.

https://stockdividendscreener.com/auto-manufacturers/gm-total-debt-and-liabilities/
 
GON said:

Is General Motors $120 Billion Debt A Cause For Concern?​


$120 Billion in debt, high interest rates, and buyback stock and increasing dividends? hhmmmmmm..
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Ah, come on GON. It's not like GM has ever gone bankrupt, leaving their stock worthless, taking over 11 billion dollars in unreimbursed Government payouts, welching on their corporate bonds and even renigging on valid warranty claims in the process.
GM is on a fentanyl high right now. Give it a couple of years when they have to discount their overproduced trucks to sell them and the only sedans/CUVs they have are Chinese and nobody wants them. It will be 2009 all over again.
 
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GON said:

Is General Motors $120 Billion Debt A Cause For Concern?​


$120 Billion in debt, high interest rates, and buyback stock and increasing dividends? hhmmmmmm.. fascinating.

https://stockdividendscreener.com/auto-manufacturers/gm-total-debt-and-liabilities/
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I don’t know, is that a lot?
They generate 150 billion a year in revenue so I honestly don’t know.
But one years worth of revenue. I’m sure can’t be all that bad.
Just for the record, I don’t study the company and I really don’t care.
 
I read the GM debt article, and the takeaways for me were:
The pandemic hurt GM, but they weathered it.
GM has cash on hand, so net debt is far lower.
Post pandemic revenue is on the rise, and will be better if and when it returns to pre-pandemic levels.
GM is managing its long term debt. From the article:
"For example, GM’s total liquidity of US$90 billion, measured as of 3Q 2023, is sufficient to cover the debt due through 2026."
GM is not a credit risk.

Here's the 5 year GM stock performance; pretty boring and lackluster for long term investors like me.

1701298363659.png
 
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