Tesla semi 1000 mile journey

[UncleDave]

For EV cars I think we are at the point where long trips are pretty easily do-able along the Interstates, my 70 something parents did a 5K mile road trip this summer in their VW ID.4 using mostly Electrify America for DC fast charging. They only got stuck on a slow charger in Lubbock on the way back. And if they would have heeded my advice not to go through Lubbock, it would not have happened.

For the Tesla semi, I think we're a long way off from replacing diesel owner-operators for long haul. How many mega chargers we gonna need? Don't know the answer but it's way more than we have. What I think will happen is that regional operators that want to use these will build their own charging infrastructure.

Auto EV travel is pretty much a snap.

I dont forsee EV semis ever replacing long haul trucking, but as you say for regional/ in town deliveries and known point to point transfer they will be successful.

It's easy to construct a scenario where they wont work, and just as easy to construct routes that will.

Forget about Tesla - Volvo, Benz, Freightliner, Peterbuit, Kenworth, Scania arent dumping tons of money into this market blindly.

 

[redbone3]

Even more interesting, how many places have the infrastructure to even support a "Megacharger."

 

[JeffKeryk]

Even more interesting, how many places have the infrastructure to even support a "Megacharger."

I see product like the SEMI and other EVs are catalysts for improvement. Need creates opportunity. Hungry, innovative companies in this country step up in the name of capitalism.

Will it happen? Who knows?

 

[PandaBear]

Even more interesting, how many places have the infrastructure to even support a "Megacharger."

I would say very many.

Basically wherever you see truck stops you will see a possible location to build out either a battery swap station or a mega charger using high voltage power line. It will definitely need the volume to support the infrastructure build of new power-line at much higher voltage, and therefore likely won't happen until it is popularized by UPS, FedEx, Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc. The more likely scenarios would be they order custom design vehicles for longer and longer range if the usage makes sense, and build out distribution centers and charge their own vehicles there while loading and unloading.

 

[PandaBear]

For EV cars I think we are at the point where long trips are pretty easily do-able along the Interstates, my 70 something parents did a 5K mile road trip this summer in their VW ID.4 using mostly Electrify America for DC fast charging. They only got stuck on a slow charger in Lubbock on the way back. And if they would have heeded my advice not to go through Lubbock, it would not have happened.

For the Tesla semi, I think we're a long way off from replacing diesel owner-operators for long haul. How many mega chargers we gonna need? Don't know the answer but it's way more than we have. What I think will happen is that regional operators that want to use these will build their own charging infrastructure.

This is similar to how people transition from horses to automobiles 100 years ago. They would likely need to drive a different route than back in the horse and buggy days, and it could be a longer distance but shorter time in the end. EVs would likely route differently than a gas vehicle depending on the battery range and the same would happen in commercial trucking if gone EV. The slower route may go through a longer distance but with an additional stop at a distribution center for mega charging top off, while loading and unloading.

 

[redbone3]

I would say very many.

Basically wherever you see truck stops you will see a possible location to build out either a battery swap station or a mega charger using high voltage power line. It will definitely need the volume to support the infrastructure build of new power-line at much higher voltage, and therefore likely won't happen until it is popularized by UPS, FedEx, Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc. The more likely scenarios would be they order custom design vehicles for longer and longer range if the usage makes sense, and build out distribution centers and charge their own vehicles there while loading and unloading.

I don't understand your reply. If a new high voltage power line is needed, the infrastructure is not there. Even that assumes there is infrastructure to feed a new high power transmission line. I would estimate that one "megacharger" requires 20 times the power of a fast charger. That, my friend, is a lot of juice.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I don't understand your reply. If a new high voltage power line is needed, the infrastructure is not there. Even that assumes there is infrastructure to feed a new high power transmission line. I would estimate that one "megacharger" requires 20 times the power of a fast charger. That, my friend, is a lot of juice.

I think @PandaBear is suggesting that truck stops may already be somewhat prepared for MegaChargers. Regardless, the requisite build out is a massive undertaking. Pepsi has 21 Semis Sacremento based (Central Valley), I believe, and generally use them for shorter CA deliveries. The have 3 slated for "long haul" trucking; Tesla is installing MegaChargers at Pepsi facilities.

 

[ripcord]

I think @PandaBear is suggesting that truck stops may already be somewhat prepared for MegaChargers. Regardless, the requisite build out is a massive undertaking. Pepsi has 21 Semis Sacremento based (Central Valley), I believe, and generally use them for shorter CA deliveries. The have 3 slated for "long haul" trucking; Tesla is installing MegaChargers at Pepsi facilities.

Since it takes so long to charge an electric vehicle, we'd need many times the number of truck stops to service the 4 million semi-trucks hauling freight in the USA. That number excludes dump trucks, cement trucks, school and transit buses, etc. Each charging station would require multiple 10s of millions of dollars to install chargers, expand parking space, bring in high tension lines, add huge transformers, etc. Not to mention all the new power generation capacity that doesn't exist on the other end of the wire.

I would call converting all those to electric a super massive undertaking.

 

[PandaBear]

I don't understand your reply. If a new high voltage power line is needed, the infrastructure is not there. Even that assumes there is infrastructure to feed a new high power transmission line. I would estimate that one "megacharger" requires 20 times the power of a fast charger. That, my friend, is a lot of juice.

I think @PandaBear is suggesting that truck stops may already be somewhat prepared for MegaChargers. Regardless, the requisite build out is a massive undertaking. Pepsi has 21 Semis Sacremento based (Central Valley), I believe, and generally use them for shorter CA deliveries. The have 3 slated for "long haul" trucking; Tesla is installing MegaChargers at Pepsi facilities.

That's partly what I was thinking, and the other part is, as I mentioned earlier, powerlines are build and expanded as we use more. Think of them as businesses and if there's a need on a route, gas stations and truck stops pop up, powerline would be laid out or upgraded, homes would be build, etc to make those places better (for a profit obviously to investors as well).

I don't think truckers would suddenly decided to start a new route with no gas stations or truck stops in between for no reason. EV is like expanding a new route and the supporting logistics would gradually build out for a profit, if there is a demand. Sure you may need 20x the power for a mega charger vs a DC fast charger but, if they are start with 1 or 2 charger and then expand gradually, they can update power line gradually as well if the need is there. Nobody says you have to go 100 megachargers or bust. If UPS, FedEx decided they need 5 each they would probably joint force to build 10 together, for example.

 

[PandaBear]

Since it takes so long to charge an electric vehicle, we'd need many times the number of truck stops to service the 4 million semi-trucks hauling freight in the USA. That number excludes dump trucks, cement trucks, school and transit buses, etc. Each charging station would require multiple 10s of millions of dollars to install chargers, expand parking space, bring in high tension lines, add huge transformers, etc. Not to mention all the new power generation capacity that doesn't exist on the other end of the wire.

I would call converting all those to electric a super massive undertaking.

The problem with your logic is:

1) You don't need to suddenly go to 4 million EV semi, you can start with 1-5 on short haul then gradually place them on longer and longer haul as they prove themselves.

2) Nobody say you need to build them all at the same spot like a huge stadium parking lot. A better way to build them is to add a couple here and a couple there, and let the truck reserve a spot as needed (using some data network to reserve a spot and pay, so they don't have to wait and hunt for a spot), with wiggle room in between when to stop, to existing truck stop. This way you don't need to expand high tension lines for no reason, only tag along the unused capacity of existing lines, pick the low hanging fruits.

3) Power plants are build all the time when homes are build to larger and larger size with stronger and colder AC, data centers prop up to support all those sites and AI and work from home business apps, etc. There is no shortage of fuel at least in the US to power the electric grid, we are a natural gas exporter. The first thing we will see if we have grid shortage is broadcast to tell us to turn our AC to higher temperature between certain hours, and that happens in Japan and Taiwan (and some part of California since 2001) already. We don't have this problem in the US.

4) You don't need to convert all trucking to electric, just like you don't have to convert all freight trains to electric (they are diesels anyways). Yet it doesn't mean having any electric ones are bad idea.

 

[ripcord]

PandaBear, you have good points, but the government is trying to get us to full electric fleets practically overnight. California is promulgating rules right now to ban diesel trucks in 19 short years. My state wants to ban the sale of new diesel trucks by 2036.

 

[rekit]

Maybe I missed it on the news. How many new generating facilities are being built? A reasonable question. Maybe the generators will be powered by windmills or hey, other generators. Yea, that's the ticket

 

[JeffKeryk]

Since it takes so long to charge an electric vehicle, we'd need many times the number of truck stops to service the 4 million semi-trucks hauling freight in the USA. That number excludes dump trucks, cement trucks, school and transit buses, etc. Each charging station would require multiple 10s of millions of dollars to install chargers, expand parking space, bring in high tension lines, add huge transformers, etc. Not to mention all the new power generation capacity that doesn't exist on the other end of the wire.

I would call converting all those to electric a super massive undertaking.

An electric Semi, like EVs in general, are not the right choice for every use. The idea is to charge when you are not using the vehicle. Depending on the route, an electric Semi could be better than a diesel rig; certainly not all.
While all vehicles require maintenance and service, the Semi is expected to save costs over time due to lower operating cost.

Of course it is too early to see how this pans out. But it is interesting that numerous companies are developing electric semi trucks.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Maybe I missed it on the news. How many new generating facilities are being built? A reasonable question. Maybe the generators will be powered by windmills or hey, other generators. Yea, that's the ticket

Just like Tesla's Supercharger network, they are added based on demand. My understanding is, Tesla continues installing MegaChargers at Pepsi trucking locations around the Central Valley to as far south as LA.
They are working on plans to install an 1800 mile corridor.
Tesla announced its intention to build nine electric semi-truck charging stations along a route from the southern border of Texas to northern California. The stations would be open to other electric truck models.

Just think of the jobs this could create; investment in America infrastructure is good!

 

[ripcord]

An electric Semi, like EVs in general, are not the right choice for every use. The idea is to charge when you are not using the vehicle. Depending on the route, an electric Semi could be better than a diesel rig; certainly not all.

CARB doesn't seem to agree based on their soon to be published regulations.

 

[Brons2]

We don't have power for Megachargers yet there are hundreds if not thousands of homes built every year in the high growth suburban area that I live in? I live in the county, but one of the cities I live near was the fastest growing city of less than 100,000 in the US in 2022. Doesn't add up that we have power for all this growth but not megachargers. There are no modern homes built with 100A or 125A service either, every new house has 200A service.

 

[ripcord]

We don't have power for Megachargers yet there are hundreds if not thousands of homes built every year in the high growth suburban area that I live in? I live in the county, but one of the cities I live near was the fastest growing city of less than 100,000 in the US in 2022. Doesn't add up that we have power for all this growth but not megachargers. There are no modern homes built with 100A or 125A service either, every new house has 200A service.

Household electrical use only accounts for a third of grid usage. Industrial and transportation make up the rest, so housing development is a smaller part of the growth in electrical demand.

 

[PandaBear]

Household electrical use only accounts for a third of grid usage. Industrial and transportation make up the rest, so housing development is a smaller part of the growth in electrical demand.

What about data centers? They are also just suddenly popped up out of nowhere and now accounts for at least 10% of the grid consumption.

Seriously, we can build power plants, it is not the end of the world as we have both the turbines and the natural gas (we do have to be careful about price volatility of gas though, just like diesel).

 

[ripcord]

I'm pretty sure that data centers would be lumped in with industrial consumption.

 

[PandaBear]

I'm pretty sure that data centers would be lumped in with industrial consumption.

Same, do we ever complain that we have insufficient power and can't build data center or other factories?