There's as million stories on this guy. I dont follow him personally that closely.
I find the guy no different man other moguls of industry, except maybe he's more successful.
Tesla Q2 Deliveries crushes estimates
- Thread starter JeffKeryk
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There's as million stories on this guy. I dont follow him personally that closely.
I find the guy no different man other moguls of industry, except maybe he's more successful.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
He basically delivered Starlink when no one asked. He inserted himself into the game (which he always does when there is attention somewhere). As one Pentagon official said: he came, he said here are things for free. Then, after people became dependent on it as, well, it was free, he delivered a bill to the Pentagon, and these guys did not have any other option bcs. now it would take longer to replace it, which would have operational issues and be more expensive.
Hes no different than any super visible person.
High visibility people often make themselves the center of everything everywhere with everyone even if no one wants or needs to hear about them. Ive worked with and in the Hollywood and Tv industry for decades and they have their own versions of that.
No one forced anyone to keep them?
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
The problem is that actually, no one asked him for that. It did not have any operational usage at that time. But UKR went offline. He delivered that once he realized that we will support UKR big time. Then he delivered a bill to the Pentagon.
You cant really expect to send the pentagon a bill without getting an order from someone somewhere.
He got a PO from somebody that he shipped against.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
Well, this is a different situation. There is no regular acquisition process here.
We entered various contracts with numerous companies in Europe without any bidding etc. bcs. they have specific know-how.
If the pentagon pays the bill then Im going to say they chose that over the alternatives.
The pentagon could have gone another way if they so wished.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
In regular times, yes. They could here too, but now, after making certain population dependant, it would have huge operational consequences. This is literally swallowing a bitter pill.
Opportunists make opportunities for themselves. He's just another opportunist.
Incase some people haven't noticed yet, a depression is coming soon.
Interest rates are going up, the cost of living is rising sharply.
Soon most people will not be able to afford frivolous cars like the tesla.
People will be keeping their old cars longer, and when they do shop, will be looking at cheaper alternatives like Civics, and Elantras.
Companies like Tesla with no cheap alternatives are going to get hit harder than most.
Pickup truck people will still buy Rams and F150s because they are trucks, but car companies are going to see luxury priced car sales plummeting.
If tesla has any smart people in charge, they should be developing an elantra priced car for the masses.
Interest rates are going up, the cost of living is rising sharply.
Soon most people will not be able to afford frivolous cars like the tesla.
People will be keeping their old cars longer, and when they do shop, will be looking at cheaper alternatives like Civics, and Elantras.
Companies like Tesla with no cheap alternatives are going to get hit harder than most.
Pickup truck people will still buy Rams and F150s because they are trucks, but car companies are going to see luxury priced car sales plummeting.
If tesla has any smart people in charge, they should be developing an elantra priced car for the masses.
Check out the Monterrey, Mexico plant. They will build the "Model 2", or $25K Tesla.
Good.
That is more an average Joe type of car.
I'm really glad to hear that.
A small 2 seater, hard top convertible, with true 300 km range, nothing fancy, but heat, AC, really good headlights for moose and deer spotting at night, super comfortable seats for my bad back, and a little trunk that can hold 4 grocery bags, would be great for me.
Heck I would buy it if not ugly or over priced.
For ripping around day to day that would be perfect.
Road trip the honda gasser, or ram diesel.
I assume that is with taxpayer subsidy and zero options. The taxpayer subsidies must come to a screeching halt, the sooner the better.
Musk is up to some tricks with this, like asking the chicoms to invest in the area.
https://insideevs.com/news/671244/tesla-asks-chinese-suppliers-mexico/
https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/chinese-supplier-tesla-monterrey-factory/
Zero option Teslas have a stupid amount of tech. Not sure what you mean by all of this. I agree we shouldn't have subsidies, but i think this goes across all industries including fuel subsidies. I want to see what becomes of the Model 2 or whatever they call it. If Tesla comes out with a legitimately fast hot hatch I'll buy instantly. That's what it would take for me to go EV, otherwise I'll buy another GTI or Golf R.
I've stayed on the sidelines for long enough...
Let me explain to you a small piece of the economics of Tesla's position.
The Model 2 will likely be in production by the spring of 2025. Although some folks are saying it will be a $25,000 car, let's assume one that has a few well chosen options will be closer to $30,000.
If the average buyer makes a 10% down payment, They finance the balance of $27,000. Add tax, tag, title, and registration, and you're looking at around $29,500 on the side. Let's use that for arguments sake.
The average new car loan is 6.58%. Let's again assume a slightly pessimistic uptick in interest rates and have it be 7% for 7 years (the most common loan term in today's market).
What's the monthly payment? $445 a month
The average person drives 13,500 miles a year. Right now the average cost per kWh is 15.47 cents. Let's bump it to 18 cents just to be, again, pessimistic.
If the smaller Model 2 averages 4.5 miles per kWh the electricity cost will be $540 a year.
If the average cost of gas is $3.50 in 2025 (roughly equal to current forecasted costs in 2023) and the gas equivalent of the best selling compact car, the Toyota Corolla, gets 33 mpg, the gasoline cost is $1430 per year. A nearly $900 difference.
So knock off an extra $74 off that $445 a month, and you get an effective monthly cost of $369 a month. $12 a day.
I'm not even counting the $7500 tax credit which may not even be there by the time the Model 2 is launched. Worst case scenario on purchasing costs and fuel, the Tesla Model 2 of a 2025 will actually be cheaper than a Toyota Corolla by 2025. This is assuming a 5% inflation rate on the mid-level SE trim ($27,783 average price by 2025 + $6230 in extra fuel costs over seven years).
Pre-tax credit, the Tesla Model 2 is forecasted to be cheaper to purchase and operate than a mid-level Toyota Corolla.
What the market is betting on is that, at least for the compact car segment, the Tesla Model 2 will be comparable or cheaper than a Toyota Corolla which has been the world's best selling car for decades. This is, again, without taking into account the $7500 tax credit in the USA and the other credits already available in Europe and Asia.
Tesla is the most coveted luxury brand in the industry right now. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, and all other competitors have been absolutely cremated in the areas where Tesla competes. What do you think is going to happen when the most coveted luxury brand starts competing with Corollas, Civics and Jettas? Pretty much what ended up happening to all these other luxury marques. Except this time it will be a lot quicker since Tesla is now a known commodity.
If this happens, all the other automakers globally that can't compete with the best selling Toyota Corolla are going to be in serious trouble. Toyota is a healthy company. They are one of the very few that performs well in all three regions. That's not a small matter. Everyone from VW in Europe to BYD in China have relied on the compact car market as a vital source of profits in their home market. The dozens of brands that are sales laggards will have a far worse reckoning.
Now think of the fact that Tesla will be launching the Cybertruck and a smaller version of the Model Y between now and 2025. If they continue to be as successful in these new segments as the Model S, 3, and Y have become in recent times, Tesla will conservatively be able to achieve around 2.3 to 2.5 million vehicles a year by 2025, and many projections are now assuming they reach close to or at the 3 million mark.
Global sales grew by only 1% between 2021 and 2022, and that is with an unusually large amount of money pumped into the economy along with low interest rates. Now that the global economy is slowing down with a strong increase in interest rate, Tesla increased their quarterly sales total by 83% from a year ago.
Macro events can derail all this. There's no such thing as a guarantee when it comes to the black swan. However right now Tesla is gobbling more sales and revenue growth, along with unbeatable margins. And their competition? Drowning in inferior products, less robust battery systems and much higher legacy costs.
If you don't know why Tesla is valued so highly, consider this a small slice of an even bigger pie Tesla now has in front of them.
Let me explain to you a small piece of the economics of Tesla's position.
The Model 2 will likely be in production by the spring of 2025. Although some folks are saying it will be a $25,000 car, let's assume one that has a few well chosen options will be closer to $30,000.
If the average buyer makes a 10% down payment, They finance the balance of $27,000. Add tax, tag, title, and registration, and you're looking at around $29,500 on the side. Let's use that for arguments sake.
The average new car loan is 6.58%. Let's again assume a slightly pessimistic uptick in interest rates and have it be 7% for 7 years (the most common loan term in today's market).
What's the monthly payment? $445 a month
The average person drives 13,500 miles a year. Right now the average cost per kWh is 15.47 cents. Let's bump it to 18 cents just to be, again, pessimistic.
If the smaller Model 2 averages 4.5 miles per kWh the electricity cost will be $540 a year.
If the average cost of gas is $3.50 in 2025 (roughly equal to current forecasted costs in 2023) and the gas equivalent of the best selling compact car, the Toyota Corolla, gets 33 mpg, the gasoline cost is $1430 per year. A nearly $900 difference.
So knock off an extra $74 off that $445 a month, and you get an effective monthly cost of $369 a month. $12 a day.
I'm not even counting the $7500 tax credit which may not even be there by the time the Model 2 is launched. Worst case scenario on purchasing costs and fuel, the Tesla Model 2 of a 2025 will actually be cheaper than a Toyota Corolla by 2025. This is assuming a 5% inflation rate on the mid-level SE trim ($27,783 average price by 2025 + $6230 in extra fuel costs over seven years).
Pre-tax credit, the Tesla Model 2 is forecasted to be cheaper to purchase and operate than a mid-level Toyota Corolla.
What the market is betting on is that, at least for the compact car segment, the Tesla Model 2 will be comparable or cheaper than a Toyota Corolla which has been the world's best selling car for decades. This is, again, without taking into account the $7500 tax credit in the USA and the other credits already available in Europe and Asia.
Tesla is the most coveted luxury brand in the industry right now. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, and all other competitors have been absolutely cremated in the areas where Tesla competes. What do you think is going to happen when the most coveted luxury brand starts competing with Corollas, Civics and Jettas? Pretty much what ended up happening to all these other luxury marques. Except this time it will be a lot quicker since Tesla is now a known commodity.
If this happens, all the other automakers globally that can't compete with the best selling Toyota Corolla are going to be in serious trouble. Toyota is a healthy company. They are one of the very few that performs well in all three regions. That's not a small matter. Everyone from VW in Europe to BYD in China have relied on the compact car market as a vital source of profits in their home market. The dozens of brands that are sales laggards will have a far worse reckoning.
Now think of the fact that Tesla will be launching the Cybertruck and a smaller version of the Model Y between now and 2025. If they continue to be as successful in these new segments as the Model S, 3, and Y have become in recent times, Tesla will conservatively be able to achieve around 2.3 to 2.5 million vehicles a year by 2025, and many projections are now assuming they reach close to or at the 3 million mark.
Global sales grew by only 1% between 2021 and 2022, and that is with an unusually large amount of money pumped into the economy along with low interest rates. Now that the global economy is slowing down with a strong increase in interest rate, Tesla increased their quarterly sales total by 83% from a year ago.
Macro events can derail all this. There's no such thing as a guarantee when it comes to the black swan. However right now Tesla is gobbling more sales and revenue growth, along with unbeatable margins. And their competition? Drowning in inferior products, less robust battery systems and much higher legacy costs.
If you don't know why Tesla is valued so highly, consider this a small slice of an even bigger pie Tesla now has in front of them.
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I feel like this is pretty realistic and I don't know if there's anything negative in this for Tesla, but it's at minimum a commentary on where the market is. I know many go on about the cost of a Tesla and a cheaper compact would be a positive, but as it stands now they're a premium brand with matching pricing. I get that many want to see them go to a cheaper price point, but there is compromise in that. Would BMW or Mercedes benefit from making an economy car? Sure that may help overall sales, but there's also an image to maintain and when you break that seal there's rarely a place to come back from on that move.
First of all, the $25K is a number Elon spoke of almost 10 years ago in his original plan. It was his ultimate goal, to make his "everyman's car".
I don't know much about the subsidies because I don't qualify. But my understanding is, the vehicle has to have a large American content. So perhaps the Monterrey plant cars will not qualify. Time will tell. I believe the Mustang Mach-E (Mexico) gets half, right?
But there are lots of EVs and hybrids that do qualify, if you are interested.
Tesla is in talks with India and Canada for their next plant; the decision is expected by the end of this year. India would make a moderately priced vehicle for sure.
I do qualify for all the oil subsidies though. About $1T last year is the generally accepted number.
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Mercedes and BMW have already gone to cheaper segments.
Mercedes did this with the A-Class. They plan to discontinue it by 2025 due to low sales. Mercedes also launched a cheaper sub-brand, smart, which lost over $5 billion.
BMW has the 2-Series (North America) and 1-Series (EU & Asia). The 2-series spans the low end of the Tesla Model 3 and has minimal sales. The 1-Series is more successful, and then there's MINI which has struggled to gain traction. All three are scheduled to offer electric models. If the Model 3 in particular is going to be challenged it will probably be from BMW. But with 3 separate models be prepared for some serious cannibalization.
I pay .37 kWh.
This Mexican made car is just a way to get mostly chicom content in the car to sell it for less.
This Mexican made car is just a way to get mostly chicom content in the car to sell it for less.
The Tesla is not even close to a luxury car, it is a poorly built mediocre quality car at best.
****s sake. You can see the BS in your statement. Pay $0.13 per kWh and it's a no brainer. I'm sure Tesla at one point didn't have building a car down and I've spent 10 years around them and it's definitely changed. It took me 9 years past that point to accept they figured it out. Anyone thinking they don't make a decent car these days is manufactured hate. I'm not a Musk fan but I can't deny a superior car and anyone denying is just trying to marginalize where the market is going. I don't understand why anyone gets married to a brand or thought. There's a reason why I always own different brands. I have an open mind for a reason. The experience of driving trumps everything. Then again I love cars and don't blindly support anything. What's your story on this?Seriously the only time I've ever owned the same brand twice is if my wife had the same brand at the same time and that's been Nissan, Jaguar, and Ford. I don't go out of my way to bend over for a brand. It ruins the experience of driving in general. A good car is a good car and there's no substitute for that.
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