Tesla Crushing It - Again

Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk

The unreleased Roadster will have a range of over 600 miles. You can buy a 400 mile range S today (too much $$ for me).
The charge rate is a challenge, but the rate posted here is the sweet spot for charging; the rate of charge is much faster when the batteries are low.

Remember, Tesla has an almost 10 year head start on the other car companies.
So who knows? But it seems the market believes
in Tesla. Which is what this post is about.



Like Enron,, Crazy Eddie, MMM and a host of others

Such an insightful post!
 
Originally Posted by dareo
i think Tesla needs about 5 more years of improvements. They will get so much better by then.

Better how? (Just asking...) Tesla owns the growing EV market; others are barely renters.

The huge China demand (biggest EV market in the world) is starting to be supplied.
Model Y deliveries are just starting. SUVs are, of course, the rage.
700K Cybertruck preorders (crazy)? Will they be realized? New Austin mfg plant?
And then there's Berlin to supply Europe...
Sub $25K car being developed? Game over.

With their last 4 quarter's success, Tesla as a company may make the S&P.
If so, Mutual funds will have to buy TSLA to make then more attractive to investors. Price will skyrocket. Again.
 
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk

The unreleased Roadster will have a range of over 600 miles. You can buy a 400 mile range S today (too much $$ for me).
The charge rate is a challenge, but the rate posted here is the sweet spot for charging; the rate of charge is much faster when the batteries are low.

Remember, Tesla has an almost 10 year head start on the other car companies.
So who knows? But it seems the market believes
in Tesla. Which is what this post is about.



Like Enron,, Crazy Eddie, MMM and a host of others

Such an insightful post!






It is insightful considering how Elon shuffles his stock buying and selling among his companies like a shell game to prop them up. The SEC keeps an eye on his shenanigans.
 
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by dareo
i think Tesla needs about 5 more years of improvements. They will get so much better by then.

Better how? (Just asking...)


They are infantile in their manufacturing quality control. The fit and finish is quite bad. Their delivery process leaves many buyers with a list of problems to try and fix later. I figure 5 years they will have perfected all that. Of course batteries, motors and tech will get better too. Its just something that i think will have so much more improvements over that period of time that i will stay away for now. Its sad that my cheap VW Alltrack has vastly better fit and finish (body and interior) than a Tesla. Its made in mexico and sells for half or a third of that the teslas get.

What Tesla has accomplished is nothing short of amazing but they need to fix the sloppy assembly. Right now you buy it, show up in a random parking lot and take it home. Then you have to start asking for things to be fixed. Stuff that you might expect on a 3-4 year old lease return but its on your brand new car. This crazy pressure from Elon to blast these cars out as fast as possible and deal with the complaints later is short sighted.

Its nothing bad enough to be a deal breaker but if your not in love with an EV its easy to just wait a few years for a much better product.
 
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk


Like Enron,, Crazy Eddie, MMM and a host of others

Such an insightful post!


You left out highly accurate and prophetic
 
Originally Posted by dareo
Right now you buy it, show up in a random parking lot and take it home. Then you have to start asking for things to be fixed. Stuff that you might expect on a 3-4 year old lease return but its on your brand new car. This crazy pressure from Elon to blast these cars out as fast as possible and deal with the complaints later is short sighted.

Its nothing bad enough to be a deal breaker but if your not in love with an EV its easy to just wait a few years for a much better product.


The reason to wait in my mind is mainly that the battery gets cheaper per KWH.

Seems to me if you end up with a brand new car with lots of problems - you blew it twice.

1. You can always refuse to accept in in the first place during orientation.
2. take advantage of their return policy which no other manufacturers Ive seen has. You get 7 days and 1000 miles.

https://www.tesla.com/support/tesla-return-policy

I've looked at some newer ones that have been bought at our company and the fit and finish is better.

"Fit and finish" is not a uniquely Tesla problem by any means.
I told the dealer I wouldn't drive off the lot with my new Ridgeline until they aligned the doors and hood properly.
took the body shop 6 hours to get right - or I should say better. No sale that Sunday.
This on a 42K honda pickup truck.

UD
 
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Originally Posted by dareo
i think Tesla needs about 5 more years of improvements. They will get so much better by then.

I would hope so, but in almost a decade, they are still very poorly made. The software and electronics (and modern style) are the only aspects that put them above 1990 Hyundai.
 
I believe a lot of people do not understand what a Tesla is. These cars are different; comparing them to other cars is expected but not relevant is many ways.
They are not trying to be like other cars.
For example, the seats are "vegan leather"; not leather at all. Naugahyde or whatever. The steering wheel is leather, but they are changing that.
The fit and finish thing is overblown; people see stuff on the Internet and expand it to the cars overall. Our car, for example, is perfect.
If they were so bad, why do owners love their cars so much? And vote with their pocketbook?

The Model 3 is so much more than an electric drive train. The car is all about Technology. It is futuristic.
Some of it is gimmicky, other things make it the (probably) safest car you can buy. And getting better with updates.
Technology may not be important to you; these cars are not for everyone; I have said that a million times.

I suggest you drive one. You might be surprised.
If you like a driver's car, you will be hooked.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by Dwight_Frye
I am willing to bet that Tesla will be able to provide a 600 mile range by the 2024 model year.

And a charge time that goes from a 20% charge to a 75% charge in 15 minutes.



I'll take that bet because unless they have developed and perfected weapons grade unobtainium with a digital waveform handwavium charger that wont happen with the elements currently on the table regardless of how many investors "believe' in the word technology.


20-75% SOC in 15 minutes is doable. As someone who is involved in the engineering of energy storage systems, so long as that regime is maintained, and thermals are accounted for, I have very little concern. Outside of that range can be a challenge... And note I didnt say anything about energy, just that this SOC range in that time is viable. More energy will need more power and make more heat, and thus a 600 mile version has a good set of other concerns, unless they become so efficient and aerodynamic that the energy consumption in Wh/mile changes drastically too...

For me, Ive driven lots of vehicles with small tanks and relatively short ranges. My old BMW 318 had a small tank, as does my 135i. My 98 S-10 has a small tank and not great MPGs. But what they can all do is get me enough margin over 300 miles to not be concerned with certain trips needing to waste time filling up. And if I did, it was fast. Tesla is getting there.
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Teslas are expensive, no doubt about it. So is a Porsche. The cars have come down since we bought ours.
The "price with incentives" may not be deceptive but it is kinda lame, if you ask me.
These cars are not for everybody. Cujet points this out. I know I live in a bubble with computer lanes, solar panel charging and owning several other vehicles.
For many, the Model 3 is a toy. Again, so is a Porsche.

Today's buyers are early adopters; we are willing to pay the price for EV evolution. I can tell you many of us feel the environmental thing is important.
I also believe a lotta people buy them for the cool factor when they really can't afford them. Just like Porsches.
They might be better off investing in something more lucrative.

But these cars are fun. The are great cars. And getting better. Wait for that Roadster to be released...


I think this is a very reasonable way to look at things.

The roadster was a chance to be something pretty awesome. The specs seem something great, but the $200k price tag is just obnoxious. Hopefully they can come up with a variant that does 450-500 miles, and 0-60 in 3s, and sell for $60k. I think that would be a pretty sweet spot for many, and access a wider range of "toy" budget...
 
Originally Posted by JHZR2
20-75% SOC in 15 minutes is doable. As someone who is involved in the engineering of energy storage systems, so long as that regime is maintained, and thermals are accounted for, I have very little concern. Outside of that range can be a challenge... And note I didnt say anything about energy, just that this SOC range in that time is viable. More energy will need more power and make more heat, and thus a 600 mile version has a good set of other concerns, unless they become so efficient and aerodynamic that the energy consumption in Wh/mile changes drastically too...


Would a 20-75% in SOC doable without any notable damages to the battery? (ie: not so much that the EV ends up only holding half the charge at the end of it's 6-year lifecycle?)
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
I believe a lot of people do not understand what a Tesla is. These cars are different; comparing them to other cars is expected but not relevant is many ways.
They are not trying to be like other cars.
For example, the seats are "vegan leather"; not leather at all. Naugahyde or whatever. The steering wheel is leather, but they are changing that.
The fit and finish thing is overblown; people see stuff on the Internet and expand it to the cars overall. Our car, for example, is perfect.
If they were so bad, why do owners love their cars so much? And vote with their pocketbook?

The Model 3 is so much more than an electric drive train. The car is all about Technology. It is futuristic.
Some of it is gimmicky, other things make it the (probably) safest car you can buy. And getting better with updates.
Technology may not be important to you; these cars are not for everyone; I have said that a million times.

I suggest you drive one. You might be surprised.
If you like a driver's car, you will be hooked.


People buy a Tesla for the technology and crazy innovation.

Lots of jealousy from people that want to Poo-Poo a vision.

I do believe the Tesla 18 wheeler for the trucking industry will remain a dream. Too cost prohibitive in an industry that lives on razor thin profit margins.
 
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
With the pandemic, forecasters set a delivery number at 72K cars; some were more optimistic.
But 80K seemed a loooong shot considering Silicon Valley shut down before anywhere in the country.

90,650 cars delivered. TSLA is over $1,200 per share; analysts are floating a $2,000 price.
Why didn't I pull the trigger?

Elon is whack. But market cap just blew past Toyota making it the highest value car company in the world.

Not sure why people hate this good American company.
Tesla Q2 Deliveries



Part of the reason so many dislike Tesla is because Elon is as easy to dislike as is he is to like.

He puts others investments at risk unnecessarily with his mouth (keyboard), and thats disrespectful to investors.

It's great to see an American Auto company on top again, especially one that did everything everyone said was impossible.

Staring a new car company - nearly impossible.
Starting a new all electric only car company- impossible squared.


UD






There's nothing remarkable about them.

The would not have survived without Massachusetts v. Environmental Protection Agency (2007) and the fact that the USG has thrown millions of dollars in subsidies which made them too big to fail and consequently allowed investors for pile in for years while accepting at best an above-average product for the price.




Nothing remarkable...... Not one little thing?

The success of many companies can often be traced to a key event or circumstance.

There isn't a single automaker that doest owe its existence to its home governments support on multiple levels. Some more egregious than others.

UD


SpaceX is interesting. Telsa motor cars. Meh, the only impressive thing is the battery technology. The performance figures on paper are amazing but not unexpected due to the power train. It's sad times for the automobile sector actually because it's going to turn into the PC industry.
 
Last edited:
Fit and finish was a very real problem … we were huddled around one that parked in a fancy part of MEL in 2014 … and the Oz guys spotted it. Didn't help it was white.
Looking at them around Houston lately - the seams are much cleaner … Sharp units …
 
In the next 10 years, what % of new cars sold will be EV's if you had to guess?

Glad to see USA's Tony Stark leading the pack. Keep the ingenuity here. We're going to need it.
 
Originally Posted by Pew
Originally Posted by JHZR2
20-75% SOC in 15 minutes is doable. As someone who is involved in the engineering of energy storage systems, so long as that regime is maintained, and thermals are accounted for, I have very little concern. Outside of that range can be a challenge... And note I didnt say anything about energy, just that this SOC range in that time is viable. More energy will need more power and make more heat, and thus a 600 mile version has a good set of other concerns, unless they become so efficient and aerodynamic that the energy consumption in Wh/mile changes drastically too...


Would a 20-75% in SOC doable without any notable damages to the battery? (ie: not so much that the EV ends up only holding half the charge at the end of it's 6-year lifecycle?)


Tesla will soon be announcing that their batteries have a million mile guarantee. And will probably extend that to 2 million miles by 2024.
Of course the likelihood of anyone driving their Tesla a million miles is slim. But - Tesla has a plan. Those batteries will be recycled and sold with their Powerwall system. Would consumers object to getting "used" batteries in their systems ? Not if they have a 20 year warranty.

Tesla's acquisition of Maxwell Technologies, SiLion and Hibar Systems will further their battery performance, lower the cost and increase production rate. All other automakers are so far behind that it isn't even a contest.

As others have mentioned, Tesla is not just a car maker. When they start shipping their HVAC products and who knows what they will be offering in the biomedical market, their stock shares will continue to gain in value.
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

SpaceX is interesting. Telsa motor cars. Meh, the only impressive thing is the battery technology. The performance figures on paper are amazing but not unexpected due to the power train. It's sad times for the automobile sector actually because it's going to turn into the PC industry.

Driving fun means different things to different people. Some don't like Tesla because there is no engine (motor) noise. My friend's i8 plays engine sounds through the radio, if you want it.
The acceleration numbers are impressive, but 99% of these cars will not see a track. Or do a 0 to 60 timed run.

What is fun for me? The Model 3 is heavy, but the weight is low; the cars feel and handle flat.
Merging onto a freeway with that instant torque never gets old.
The quickness, via handling, quick steering and instant torque always puts a smile on your face.

The AP updates are always a kick. Seeing orange cones in real time is one of the newer ones. Of course, many may not care about such things.
You hit it on the head about the PC thing.
CPUs have been put into cars for many years now. Tesla is just ahead of the pack.

Updates in general are fun. It is like getting a present; something new.

If you like a driver's car that excels is real world use, you just might like a Tesla Model 3.
Low, flat, quick. They go like stink...

Go drive one. The base Model 3 is a great handling car that will do low 13's and 0 to 60 in 5.3 seconds. Enough for most.
Then you will get an update and your car will be better. That's fun in my book. Others may disagree.
 
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

SpaceX is interesting. Telsa motor cars. Meh, the only impressive thing is the battery technology. The performance figures on paper are amazing but not unexpected due to the power train. It's sad times for the automobile sector actually because it's going to turn into the PC industry.

Driving fun means different things to different people. Some don't like Tesla because there is no engine (motor) noise. My friend's i8 plays engine sounds through the radio, if you want it.
The acceleration numbers are impressive, but 99% of these cars will not see a track. Or do a 0 to 60 timed run.

What is fun for me? The Model 3 is heavy, but the weight is low; the cars feel and handle flat.
Merging onto a freeway with that instant torque never gets old.
The quickness, via handling, quick steering and instant torque always puts a smile on your face.

The AP updates are always a kick. Seeing orange cones in real time is one of the newer ones. Of course, many may not care about such things.
You hit it on the head about the PC thing.
CPUs have been put into cars for many years now. Tesla is just ahead of the pack.

Updates in general are fun. It is like getting a present; something new.

If you like a driver's car that excels is real world use, you just might like a Tesla Model 3.
Low, flat, quick. They go like stink...

Go drive one. The base Model 3 is a great handling car that will do low 13's and 0 to 60 in 5.3 seconds. Enough for most.
Then you will get an update and your car will be better. That's fun in my book. Others may disagree.


I want Tesla to make an SUV that makes sense and is quality and can go 800mi hwy rating on 1 charge.


Makes sense...doesn't cost $120K. I'd buy a Tesla to save money as an economic alternative to other vehicles. Even if it forever operates for free, that's a stupid purchase. They need to get it under $50K to interest me in that. Also, has real AWD (Tesla does okay here I think so far).
 
Originally Posted by JHZR2

The roadster was a chance to be something pretty awesome. The specs seem something great, but the $200k price tag is just obnoxious. Hopefully they can come up with a variant that does 450-500 miles, and 0-60 in 3s, and sell for $60k. I think that would be a pretty sweet spot for many, and access a wider range of "toy" budget...


Musk designed the Roadster to be the highest performing car in the world regardless of price. In comparison, $200K is a bargain for such a car.
The McLaren 570 starts around $200K and is nearly a second slower in 0 to 60 at 2.7 seconds, for example.

The Model 3 Performance does most of what you ask now except for the range. $55K.
 
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