Tesla Drops USA Prices up to 20%

[KrisZ]

Interesting to see so many “luxury” arguments yet people ignore the big elephant in the room which is the proliferation of the small 4 cylinder engines used most of luxury models these days. Despite all the efforts and fake sounds, they still make the same noises as an average Corolla.
I find it quite interesting to say the least.

I would argue that from that driving feel and smoothness perspective, a model 3 or Y feels more luxurious than an average, four banger equipped luxury model.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Interesting to see so many “luxury” arguments yet people ignore the big elephant in the room which is the proliferation of the small 4 cylinder engines used most of luxury models these days. Despite all the efforts and fake sounds, they still make the same noises as an average Corolla.
I find it quite interesting to say the least.

I would argue that from that driving feel and smoothness perspective, a model 3 or Y feels more luxurious than an average, four banger equipped luxury model.

Yeah, I am curious to see how these turbo 4 bangers handle the weight of cars today. I can say the hybrids, like our RX450h, do reasonably well. @The Critic just picked up a new hybrid RX with the 4; perhaps he can chime in as to driveability.

Of course when you get used to a 500+ HP M3P with a flat torque curve, most everything else feels kinda wimpy. Not bad, just a little wimpy...

 

[KrisZ]

Yeah, I am curious to see how these turbo 4 bangers handle the weight of cars today. I can say the hybrids, like our RX450h, do reasonably well. @The Critic just picked up a new hybrid RX with the 4; perhaps he can chime in as to driveability.

Of course when you get used to a 500+ HP M3P with a flat torque curve, most everything else feels kinda wimpy. Not bad, just a little wimpy...

They do pretty well actually.
But from the noise, vibrations and general feel of these engines, they simply behave similarly to the economy models. That’s the nature of a four cylinder engine, there is only so much that can be done to make them feel more refined.

You push the RPMs high and the four banger noises cannot be ignored. Meanwhile your cheapest Tesla is just dead quiet and smooth no matter how you drive it.

 

[demarpaint]

They do pretty well actually.
But from the noise, vibrations and general feel of these engines, they simply behave similarly to the economy models. That’s the nature of a four cylinder engine, there is only so much that can be done to make them feel more refined.

You push the RPMs high and the four banger noises cannot be ignored. Meanwhile your cheapest Tesla is just dead quiet and smooth no matter how you drive it.

I'd imagine as the choke hold on ICE tightens up, you'll see more and more turbo four bangers and turbo six cylinder engines making it into vehicles that were better suited for six and eight cylinder engines. As always time will tell how well they do, some seem to be doing OK.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I'd imagine as the choke hold on ICE tightens up, you'll see more and more turbo four bangers and turbo six cylinder engines making it into vehicles that were better suited for six and eight cylinder engines. As always time will tell how well they do, some seem to be doing OK.

My understanding is, this is exactly what the Lexus RX Suvs have now.
With the hybrid electrics to get you off the line and up to speed, it could work very well.

Our 2021 RX450h F Sport has the tried-and-true V6 dinosaur. Powerful? Hardly. Dependable? Yup. I believe the all around gas mileage is well into the 30's. I am not an SUV guy. It is wifey's; I rarely drive it.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Of course so do any “natural” surfaces, which crack, tear, fade, and still are hot in the summer and cold in the winter. Oh, right… and are typically coated with a vinyl or other polymer surface anyway… right.

I’m not against artificial seating, only Teslas implementation. I can’t help but think that there isn’t some normalization of deviancy with the choice of the squeaky vinyl in Teslas. Fart noise, SE3XY etc.
Performance
Integrated
Seating
Solution
Or some such crap coming from the man child.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I'd imagine as the choke hold on ICE tightens up, you'll see more and more turbo four bangers and turbo six cylinder engines making it into vehicles that were better suited for six and eight cylinder engines. As always time will tell how well they do, some seem to be doing OK.

The modern 4 cylinder direct injection / high compression turbo have as much power and broader power bands than the old V8's. Power at the crankshaft makes no difference how it got there.

The issue is getting them to last a reasonable amount of time, which I don't think anyone has quite achieved yet on a consistent basis.

 

[Ws6]

The modern 4 cylinder direct injection / high compression turbo have as much power and broader power bands than the old V8's. Power at the crankshaft makes no difference how it got there.

The issue is getting them to last a reasonable amount of time, which I don't think anyone has quite achieved yet on a consistent basis.

They do fine holding up. I had 80k miles on my turbo cx5. Zero issues with the powertrain. No measurable oil usage on 5k mi intervals. Just a good, solid car. 310#tq at 2000rpm. It drove like it had a big displacement v6, basically.

 

[SC Maintenance]

They do fine holding up. I had 80k miles on my turbo cx5. Zero issues with the powertrain. No measurable oil usage on 5k mi intervals. Just a good, solid car. 310#tq at 2000rpm. It drove like it had a big displacement v6, basically.

80K isn't exactly the time horizon I had in mind.

 

[Ws6]

80K isn't exactly the time horizon I had in mind.

For sure, I was just saying it did fine to that point. I can't say the same for some v8s I've had, which have used oil, ate water pumps, etc. To the same or less miles. Plenty of 2.5T mazdas have crossed the 2 and 300k mile range by now.

 

[SC Maintenance]

For sure, I was just saying it did fine to that point. I can't say the same for some v8s I've had, which have used oil, ate water pumps, etc. To the same or less miles. Plenty of 2.5T mazdas have crossed the 2 and 300k mile range by now.

I am certainly not implying that Mazda can't make a good engine, just that 80K is barely out of warranty.

I presume a bunch of ecoboosts have made it to 200K. Just as many blew out a head gasket or top of the block long before as well.

Still, pushing a CX5 is a bit different than pushing say a RX or X5.

 

[Ws6]

I am certainly not implying that Mazda can't make a good engine, just that 80K is barely out of warranty.

I presume a bunch of ecoboosts have made it to 200K. Just as many blew out a head gasket or top of the block long before as well.

Still, pushing a CX5 is a bit different than pushing say a RX350 or X5.

The engine and transmission combo also is in the cx9.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The engine and transmission combo also is in the cx9.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2024/mazda-skyactiv-g-25t-engine-problems-lawsuit.shtml

 

[Ws6]

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2024/mazda-skyactiv-g-25t-engine-problems-lawsuit.shtml

4 plaintiffs. Wow.

 

[SC Maintenance]

4 plaintiffs. Wow.

So apparently you have no clue how a class action works. They start with a few plaintiff's, called "class representatives", and if they get a settlement everyone in the "class" is included in the win, and get a letter on how to receive their settlement. Hence "class" action.

I am not trying to imply Mazda is better or worse than anyone else. Simply that turbo 4-cylinder engines seem to have far more problems on average than the larger engines there replacing. Its possible that there just new. Its possible that OEM's can't build stuff anymore - I mean Boeing can't build an airplane and Nasa has outsourced space flight so its possible.

Not trying to be argumentative. If you disagree, such is life.

 

[Ws6]

So apparently you have no clue how a class action works. They start with a few plaintiff's, called "class representatives", and if they get a settlement everyone in the "class" is included in the win, and get a letter on how to receive their settlement. Hence "class" action.

I am not trying to imply Mazda is better or worse than anyone else. Simply that turbo 4-cylinder engines seem to have far more problems on average than the larger engines there replacing. Its possible that there just new. Its possible that OEM's can't build stuff anymore - I mean Boeing can't build an airplane and Nasa has outsourced space flight so its possible.

Not trying to be argumentative. If you disagree, such is life.

I'm just not seeing the issue with them, really. Sure, old V8's were overbuilt, but so was everything "back then" when engineers erred on the side of "Well, we KNOW this will hold up..." instead of the high-tech failure analysis that allows the shaving of ounces and the adding of a few hp and "this should theoretically be fine..." We see that with new V8's, though. Like the LS7 in my Z06. Those were faulty, too.

 

[demarpaint]

The modern 4 cylinder direct injection / high compression turbo have as much power and broader power bands than the old V8's. Power at the crankshaft makes no difference how it got there.

The issue is getting them to last a reasonable amount of time, which I don't think anyone has quite achieved yet on a consistent basis.

My point exactly. Occasionally I get the new car itch. Jeep screwed up in 2025 and ditched the automatic transmission bolted to the 3.6L in the Wrangler. The only choice with that engine for now is a stick, and a 2024 is out of the running. I don't want a Hemi or the I4 Turbo. I like the 2025 4 Runner Trailhunter. Unfortunately the only engine choice is going to be the Turbo 4 Hybrid. I have to go down a few trim levels to get an I4 Turbo. The Hurricane engine in the Wrangler could be interesting, although it isn't offered and the engine is too new for me even to consider it. Hopefully Jeep gets their act together [they're in a financial mess], or Toyota offers the I4 w/o the turbo in the Trailhunter or I'll be sitting on my cash a lot longer. It seems the push to go green is going to be taking away some ICE only engine choices.