Technical Information for today

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JAG

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This is about diesel engines but still interesting. http://www.astmtmc.cmu.edu/docs/diesel/hdeocp/minutes/2001/hdeocp.2001-06/0601ATT18.PDF

http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/980702
Quote:
Properties of engine bearings were investigated with different bearing materials and different HTHS viscosity oils by means of both an engine test and a rig test.

The rig test well simulated the bearing wear which occurred in the engine test. Lead-bronze bearings with lead-tin-indium overlay gave the least amount of wear in operating under high-speed and heavy-load conditions even with low HTHS viscosi Aluminum bearings without overlay gave good wear resistance in the case of no seizure occurrence. The wear amount of bearings were well correlated with HTHS viscosity, not with kinematic viscosity.

http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/922342
Quote:
Two programs were conducted to study the relationships between engine oil rheology and crankshaft bearing wear. A chassis dynamometer test of four oils in four cars was used to explore and define the key variables affecting bearing wear. There results were used to design a field test of nine oils in 45 taxicabs in New York City. The test oils (SAE 0W-20 to 20W-20) were formulated to measure the effects of viscosity, viscosity index improver, and detergent inhibitor package. Bearing wear tended to be either low and unremarkable or very high, particularly in the thrust bearings. Oil performance was best expressed as the frequency of excessive wear, rather than by quantitative wear measurement. There were many instances of very high wear in cabs operated with the lowest viscosity oils but none in cabs with higher viscosity oils. Non-Newtonian oils appeared to provide slightly more protection than Newtonian oils of the same HTHS viscosity, and a higher quality adpack also appeared to provide benefits. However, these factors were secondary to the viscosity of the oil. HTHS viscosity was a better predictor of beairng wear performance than oil film thickness.

Here is a way of getting better fuel economy in the API Sequence VIB engine test.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/WO2008005100.html
Quote:
The high temperature high shear (HTHS) data was measured using a fully formulated 5w30 weight crankcase engine oil formulation; however, different viscosity index modifier polymers were employed to demonstrate their contribution. The HTHS of an oil is determined according to ASTM D5481 using a capillary tube. This evaluates the oil at an elevated temperature and shear rate to better attempt to simulate actual extreme engine operating conditions. This replaces the Minimum. Oil Film Thickness (MOFT), MOFT data from operating engines generally has not provided a good correlation with actual wear in service. [0068] Fuel economy has been measured by the American Petroleum Institute's Sequence VIB engine test (ASTM D6837) which measures fuel economy improvement (% FEI) of a formulated engine oil and consists of several stages in which the oil temperature ranges in temperature from 45 0 C to 125° C. In more than half of the time during the Seq. VIB test in which the %FEI is measured, the oil temperature is held at 70 0 C or lower.

[0069] Viscosity Index Improver polymers which show distinct reductions in HTHS at the temperatures encountered in the Sequence VIB test are believed to increase the measured % FEI (Fuel Economy Improvement) of an oil. A good indication of the potential of a Viscosity Index Improver polymer to improve fuel economy is therefore provided by looking at the HTHS behaviors of the polymer at temperatures at about 70 0 C or lower. Thus, one aspect of the present invention is directed to a method for improving the fuel economy of a engine oil comprising selecting a plurality of viscosity index improver polymers, screening the polymers at HTHS at temperatures at about 7O 0 C or lower and optionally at a plurality of temperatures, evaluating the HTHS results, and selecting a polymer candidate. The preset temperatures of 50 0 C and 75°C for the Cannon Series I High Temperature High Shear Capillary Viscometer are therefore convenient for investigating fuel economy. A good way to get an indication of the potential for fuel economy improvement is to compare the HTHS of one polymer against another polymer, for example a commercial polymer or other reference polymer. Since some polymers might be expected to have lower HTHS at different temperatures, a good assessment of the overall fuel economy performance is to measure and calculate the difference between the HTHS of a polymer and the

reference polymer at both 50 0 C and 75°C. A Fuel Economy Index (FEI) can then be calculated as adding the differences in HTHS measured at the two temperatures:

FEI = (HTHS rφrence - HTHS polymer \^ + {HTHS reβrence - HTHS polymer \ sec

[0070] A high value of FEI calculated in this way, for example greater than 3.0, indicates a polymer which generally has a substantially lower HTHS viscosity at temperatures important to the Seq. VIB fuel economy engine test and therefore better fuel economy. The successful candidate can thereafter be blended to a formulated engine oil thereby improving the %FEI as measured in the Seq. VIB test.
 
Great info, thanks JAG. So how do you think Mobil 1 0w-40 applies to this?
 
I think (oh that's dangerous!) that:
1. The relatively poor shear stability helps fuel economy relative to same oil with more shear stable VIIs. You know that already but I said it for completeness.

2. The VIIs provide some viscoelastic behavior which can help protect bearings relative to an otherwise similar oil lacking them that has the same HTHS viscosity as the used (sheared) Mobil 1 0W-40. That otherwise same oil would be a Newtonian oil.

3. The drop in HTHS viscosity during use may increase wear in some parts of some engines. That comes from the first link above.

It's not so simple, is it? :) This doesn't even cover all of the aspects of VIIs and their effects.
 
Great points. It's definitely more complex than many realize.
crazy2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
#2 and 3 seem to be in conflict?
Yes they may seem that way. But in the first link it was liner wear that was measured while in the other comment, I'm speaking of bearing wear. Also generalizations across very different engines are being made so that can cause exceptions to rules.

That's where testing a specific engine family with specific oils with specific oil change intervals and driving regimins (sp?) has to be done which is what manufacturers do or have done. This research is very useful and fascinating but when it comes down to it, specific testing is required to really find out what's what.
 
Quote:
Yes they do seem that way. That's where testing a specific engine family with specific oils with specific oil change intervals and driving regimins (sp?) has to be done which is what manufacturers do or have done. This research is very useful and fascinating but when it comes down to it, specific testing is required to really find out what's what.


Probably more of a reason to stick with OEM fluids in some high performanc cars.
 
Yeah, stray carefully in some cases. I've strayed but have been careful. Not that my engines are high performance like some but...
As you know, buster, Mobil 1 0W-40 is the OEM fluid for the Nissan GT-R. They took the unusual step of going to a thicker oil than what most Nissans and Infinitis use, and surely for good reasons, as they apply to the buyers of GT-Rs.

If you mostly put-put around town and freeways, sure a typical 30 weight oil will be okay. That would make that owner a poser but that's another story. :) If you hammer on it like it should be driven, be careful with oil choice.
 
Does it seem oxymoronic that they are referring to "HTHS" testing at temperatures around 70C? HTHS standards are at 150C, which is where the high temperature part of "HTHS" comes from, right? So there is really no such thing as HTHS at 70C. It would be a low temp high shear test.

Some things as they appear to me:

- There seems to be little question that the strongest correlation to engine wear is HTHS.

- At a given HTHS, adding VIIs can be helpful. However, this is misleading. Adding VIIs normally lowers HTHS performance - so, to get an oil with VIIs and the same HTHS, one would need to start with a higher-HTHS base before adding the VIIs. With that in mind, it is not such a surprising finding, although it is useful to realize that VIIs can be helpful.

- Using lower HTHS can improve fuel economy. However, because of the strong correlation between wear and HTHS, engine wear will almost certainly increase. The increase can be mitigated by carefully selecting VIIs that will tweak the oil's performance relative to another, lower-HTHS oil.

- From the last quote, it seems as though they are exploiting the fact that the sequence VIB fuel economy test involves large amounts of time at low temperatures - below 70C. They are selecting polymers that give lower HTHS values at low temps (exploiting the fuel economy benefit for those portions of the test during which the oil is not fully warmed) relative to high temps. Therefore, the oil will perform like a lower-HTHS, high-FE oil when at lower temps, and closer to a standard-HTHS, standard-FE oil when at higher temps. Depending on your perspective you might see this as a way to "cheat" the test, by tweaking the oil to give better FE performance during the test while retaining a greater HTHS under more stressful conditions.
 
Very true....

I hold the opinion that XOM must know this oil shears a bit, but still remains a high 30wt. I'd like to know the HT/HS of the oil when it's around 12.0 cSt. It starts at 3.7 and technically this oil should't dip below 3.5.
 
They surely know how it shears. They know much more than we do. The HTHS requirement of ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4 of >=3.5 cP is for virgin oil and only deals with temporary shear occuring at high shear rates. There is a shear stability test CEC-L-14-A-93 or ASTM D6278 which runs 30 cycles of shearing and the oil must have a kinematic viscosity of a 40 weight oil at the end which is a measure of permanent shearing at low shear rate. In practice the permanent shearing is often more severe than it is in this test. I think there are instances when used Mobil 1 0W-40 has a HTHS of a little less than 3.5 cP. That can be estimated from the used oil's kinematic viscosity at 100C by using a simple formula that's been discussed before.
 
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