Technical Analysis: 90º V4 Engine By Kevin Camero

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Have a look at this engine cross-section line drawing. It purports to
be a patent drawing of a “super streetbike” that Honda will build as a
homologation special for the FIM Superbike World Championship. And it
is said to be closely related to the production racer Honda plans to
offer for sale to race teams for the 2014 MotoGP season.

Honda-V-Four-diagram_lead.jpg


As you can see, this is a 90-degree V-Four. The front cylinders’ axis
is 35 degrees above horizontal. Remind you of a Ducati? Why, yes! For
two years, some have been saying that Ducati’s problems in MotoGP come
from the excessive bulk of its 90-degree V-Four, pushing the engine’s
cg so far back from the front wheel that there’s not enough load on
the front to keep the tire hot. But wait! Recently, Honda arranged an
impromptu “photo op” in which its highly successful and series-leading
RC213V engine was seen to also have a 90-degree Vee angle. Revelation!

Honda has a historic commitment to V-Fours, having pioneered the
super-radical but never successful oval-piston NR500 in the late 1970s
then spun off a long series of V-Four street- and racebikes, including
the VFRs, RC30 and RC45. Why? Because its engineers did not like the
inherent vibration and crankcase flexure of inline-Fours. They should
know: Honda won many GP championships in the 1960s with air-cooled
inline-Fours, despite their problems.

What are the V-Four’s advantages? First, a 90-degree Vee engine can
easily be given perfect primary balance without resorting to balance
shafts. Second, a compact V-Four centralizes mass very well, as it is
the engine closest to being a cannonball. In your mind, compare the
ease of turning corners carrying a) a 12-foot ladder weighing 24
pounds or b) a 24-pound cannonball.

Ducati also has long experience with 90-degree Vee engines, both in
SBK, where they are Twins, and in MotoGP, where they are V-Fours. The
front cylinder of Ducati’s original, early 1970s’ V-Twin was only 15
degrees above the horizontal, so that long cylinder pushed the heavy
crank and crankcase rearward, giving that bike its long 60-inch
wheelbase and very low front tire loading. To get stability with so
little weight on the front, Ducati resorted to a 31-degree steering
rake angle and 4 1/2 inches of trail. Result? Very slow and rather
heavy steering.

Since then, Ducati has progressively raised the angle of the front
cylinder to allow the engine’s cg to move forward, allowing shorter
wheelbases and somewhat less-conservative steering geometry, but the
problem is not solved, only reduced. Every manufacturer picks a set of
compromises and works with it.

Now, comes the shock news that Honda is winning races with the very
same 90-degree Vee angle. How can this be? The drawing shows at least
three methods Honda has used to make its engine more compact, so it
can be moved forward enough to produce good performance, even on the
spec Bridgestone tires that have been such a problem for Ducati:

1) This engine has short connecting rods. Whereas Formula 1 racing
engines have a 2.5 rod ratio (center-to-center length divided by
stroke) and conventional race engines lie between 2.0 and 2.2, this
engine has a 1.8 ratio. One year at Daytona, John Britten reached into
his pocket and pulled out a titanium rod. “Cosworth is using a 1.8 rod
ratio, so that was good enough for me,” he said.

2) The wristpins in this engine’s extremely short pistons are as high
in the piston as they can possibly be. The outside diameter of the
con-rod’s small end barely clears the underside of the piston crown.

3) By making the exhaust valves shorter than the intakes, the cam
cover can be angled to give more cylinder-head-to-front-tire clearance
on the exhaust side (Ducati has also used this technique). Why not
shorten both? Long intake-valve stems allow the use of high-flowing,
nearly straight ports. These are not as essential on the exhaust side.

Yes, but maybe Ducati has already done all these things, right? Maybe
not. Think of how factory rider Andrea Dovizioso has recently
qualified a lot higher than he has finished. When I asked Ducati
MotoGP Project Manager Paolo Ciabatti about this, he said it is
because “our bike is quite physical to ride.” That is, it takes a lot
of muscle to heave it around. One or two fast laps in qualifying are
no problem, but 24 to 30 laps of racing are exhausting. This suggests
the Ducati still has the slower steering geometry required to
compensate for less-than-optimal weight on the front tire.

Another point is that we know Ducati’s general philosophy is to make
all the power that engineering can stuff into the engine, then use
electronics to make it rideable. Short rods are not preferred for the
highest power (greater rod angularity pushes the pistons harder
against the cylinder walls, generating extra friction), and Ducati
already has experience with the heat problem of high wristpin
location, causing lube breakdown and metal pickup on the pin.

Okay, maybe I’m building castles in the air, but the drawing is
suggestive. And the Ducatis are a second a lap slow. If Honda can do
it, Ducati, whose engineers are just as intelligent and well-educated,
should be able to do it, too. To add an element of crudity to the
discussion, an extra 30 million R&D dollars wouldn’t hurt, either.
MotoGP is not a contest of equals.
 
Doesn't remind me of a Ducati. Reminds me of an Interceptor.

By the time Ducati made a V4 (Desmosedici), Honda had been making one for 20 years. Yamaha for nearly as long. Suzuki's had already come and gone.

The engine angle is tilted back a bit. Seems counterintuitive to keeping the front tire loaded but I guess you can move the entire engine forward in the frame that way.
21.gif


I can say from experience that if you go from Ninja (ZX600C) to Magna (VF700C), the Magna's front end feels spooky. It doesn't really low side you into a faceplant but it doesn't feel planted.
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog

The engine angle is tilted back a bit. Seems counterintuitive to keeping the front tire loaded but I guess you can move the entire engine forward in the frame that way.
21.gif


I can say from experience that if you go from Ninja (ZX600C) to Magna (VF700C), the Magna's front end feels spooky. It doesn't really low side you into a faceplant but it doesn't feel planted.


Moving the engine as far forward as possible is a design goal... I can't speak for Maggy
but my V4 front feels planted...

Quote Nicky Hayden...
"It's awesome. the RC45 is so stable and it's so easy to feel the
front."

Quote Performance Bikes...
"Confidence is a big chuck of what makes the RC45 excellent. It feels
so super glued to the road it'd take a full time Gorilla on the gas to
fatally unstick it. and the RC45 gives that confidence without
asking-on the others you have to go looking for it. For a homologated
racer on the road, the RC45 is incredibly civilized"
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog


By the time Ducati made a V4 (Desmosedici), Honda had been making one for 20 years. Yamaha for nearly as long. Suzuki's had already come and gone.



FWIW, Ducati made a V4 motorcycle engine in the early 60's. The bike with that engine proved to be too powerful for the tires of the period. It was seriously detuned, so tires would last, but at that point the added complexity and potential power of a V4 that couldn't be utilized, became superfluous. So it didn't go into regular production.
 
Looks like an old Intercepter/Magna/Sabre engine.

I would not say my Magna is spooky, but the front end certainly feels lighter than my KZ.

It is a shame V-4's never really caught on with street bikes, they feel like they have the high end of a inline 4 with more low end torque. I guess people got burned by Honda's cam issues.
 
Originally Posted By: THE_TROTS
Looks like an old Intercepter/Magna/Sabre engine.

I would not say my Magna is spooky, but the front end certainly feels lighter than my KZ.

It is a shame V-4's never really caught on with street bikes, they feel like they have the high end of a inline 4 with more low end torque. I guess people got burned by Honda's cam issues.


Yamaha had a pretty successful go with the V-MAX and its V4 at least....
 
Honda is already using v4s in the 800 and 1200 range of street bikes (VFR variants, shaft in the 1200 and chain in the 800) and did so from 1990 to recently in the ST1100 and ST1200 (although these were longitudinal in the frame) Cost of production has always been cited as an issue.
 
Originally Posted By: THE_TROTS


It is a shame V-4's never really caught on with street bikes, they feel like they have the high end of a inline 4 with more low end torque. I guess people got burned by Honda's cam issues.


The desire is there but cost is the main hurdle for most consumer
because I4s are cheap to manufacture compared to V4s which are
expensive like V2s to produce...

The great camshaft crisis in 84 about off killed enthusiasm for the
VF... as you know every stop gap measure was tried in curing the
problem but the real culprit was Honda's short cut in machining steps
of the cam bearing blocks... they dropped the line bore step and
machined the cam bearing blocks separately... this resulted in mix
match of clearances... in short the cams flopped about... hard coat
damage soon followed... For a cure Honda... in 86... went back to the
more accurate and expensive method of line boring the cam bearing
blocks... You can note the external difference in the head design...
the 84's & 85's rubber valve cover gasket is flat... whereas the 86's
rubber valve cover gasket is half circled covering where it was line
bored...

Honda was typically silent for a long time and this led to all sorts of home
cures including better top oiling kits... shorten oil change intervals... larger
gapped valve clearances... installing new cam tensioners... auxiliary
cooling fans kits... etc etc etc... but none of these address the root cause...
Only after Honda took a lot of stick did they finally go back to the timely
process of line boring the cam bearing blocks on the head so the
tolerances complimented each other...
 
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