Tech data for Syntec 5W-40 and BMW Synthetic 5W-30

[F1Crazy]

Primus,
You're dead on with your European Castrol oils info. 5W-40 GTX Magnatec (sold also as Dynatec) is a Group III and GroupIV/V blend, this Polish site even mentions "special" ester that allows this oil to stick to metal in a similar way as magnet does (don't you just love marketing blah, blah). BMWNA used to have 5W-40 BMW branded synthetic but changed it 2-3 years ago that leads me to believe it was old TXT Softec you mentioned. I don't think it was GTX Magnatec or regular US Syntec.

There are a few Castrol oils sold in Europe that meet BMW Long Life specs (98 or 01)thus are recommended for regular BMW cars build after '98:
Formula RS 0W-40
GTX Magnatec (Dynatec) 5W-40
SLX 0W-30
TXT Softec Plus 5w30
Interesting is that both Formula RS 10W-60 and TWS Motorsport 10W-60 don't list BMW Long Life specs but it could be simply because they were never tested since they are only used for specific applications (some M cars).

BMW partnership started I believe in 1998 and Castrol became factory fill since then though dealers in Europe can choose what oil they use during service as long as it meets BMW specs.

 

[quadrun1]

quote:

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Originally posted by F1Crazy:
Primus,
BMWNA used to have 5W-40 BMW branded synthetic but changed it 2-3 years ago that leads me to believe it was old TXT Softec you mentioned. I don't think it was GTX Magnatec or regular US Syntec.

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Actually, my understanding is that the former BMW 5W-40 synth used in North America was made by Valvoline (?)

As for the brownish/rust colored deposits, I've seen them on many recent BMWs using the Castrol/BMW HP Synth 5w30, including an '03 330xi with only 5,000 miles; I'm currently testing M1 0W-40 in it to see if the deposit formation will be inhibited or at least lessened.

Jason

 

[sprintman]

Castrol Magnatec here is 10W40 only. I'm interested thats its Group III and IV/V blend. Has this been confirmed?

 

[Primus]

F1Crazy,
I had in mind the only one 5W-40 synthetic or so called synthetic. There are also GTX7 and Magnatec and I did not mention them since everyone may have different understanding of what is synthetic oil. Believe Magnatec contains the same esters as Castrol Syntec, so I shall not be surprised if it is one product with two different names. By the way, to increase tackiness it's enough to add only 2-3 % of esters. Given better lubricity of mineral oil and HC then that of PAO, the combination of HC + small amount of Esters gives "Unique molecular attraction". How then to qualify properties of 100 % esters base stock ?

 

[Jimbo]

I've been tempted by the BMW oil since it is under $4 at the dealer, but I won't risk using it in my car. It is a 1992 model with well over 100,000 miles. My owners manual calls for 20W-50 in my climate, so the 15W-40 I use is already on the thin side.

 

[F1Crazy]

quadrun1,
You are absolutely correct, BMW oil in NA was supplied by Valvoline prior to agreement with Castrol but I'm talking about oil that was sold circa '99-'00.
BMWNA caused a lot of confusion among their customers. They were told for years to use thicker oils then all of a sudden they can't get them at their dealerships and everybody tells them it's OK to use 5w30.

I'll be very interested how M1 0W-40 performs in your car, so remember to post your observations, I lurk on this board frequently.

 

[F1Crazy]

Primus,
You're lucky to have such a wide choice of quality stuff, unfortunately market here won't let us see many quality oils, especially from Castrol. I know that Castrol's reputation in Europe hasn't changed like it did here and rightly so since they continue to make excellent products.

Just to put an end to "is Syntec 0W-30 really the SLX?" debacle I may ask my brother to bring me a bottle of real stuff and I will test it and compare with Syntec. If anyone's interested let me know and I'll get it done possibly this fall.

 

[pscholte]

quote:

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Originally posted by F1Crazy:
Primus,
You're lucky to have such a wide choice of quality stuff, unfortunately market here won't let us see many quality oils, especially from Castrol. I know that Castrol's reputation in Europe hasn't changed like it did here and rightly so since they continue to make excellent products.

Just to put an end to "is Syntec 0W-30 really the SLX?" debacle I may ask my brother to bring me a bottle of real stuff and I will test it and compare with Syntec. If anyone's interested let me know and I'll get it done possibly this fall.

---

F1,

I am MOST interested.

 

[Primus]

F1Crazy,
Unfortunately not everything is OK in Europe too, otherwise I would not find this forum. Many people are disappointed with Castrol and this may happen with new Mobil1 now. Apparently this is already a trend.
As for our discussion, I supposed that Magnatec 5W-40 and Syntec 5W-40 are produced by similar technology. I do not know whether or not European Castrol TXT Softec Plus 5w30 and Castrol Formula SLX 0W-30 have their North-American analogues.

G-ManII,
The question was how Castrol got "unique" product. And if we speak about lubricity as natural properties, mineral oil exibits higher lubricity then PAO, but lower then Esters. Thus, using HC instead of PAO, it was easier to reach "unique" properties.
Hope this clarify my previous notes.

 

[pscholte]

quote:

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Originally posted by Primus:
F1Crazy,
Unfortunately not everything is OK in Europe too, otherwise I would not find this forum. Many people are disappointed with Castrol and this may happen with new Mobil1 now. Apparently this is already a trend.

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Primus,

That brings up an interesting point...what are the popular oils in Europe now...not just the ones that sell a lot but the ones people have confidence in?

TNX

 

[quadrun1]

quote:

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Originally posted by Primus:
F1Crazy,
By the way, to increase tackiness it's enough to add only 2-3 % of esters. Given better lubricity of mineral oil and HC then that of PAO, the combination of HC + small amount of Esters gives "Unique molecular attraction". How then to qualify properties of 100 % esters base stock ?

---

That sounds VERY MUCH like the "Unique Molecular Bonding" characteristic they've been touting for Castrol Syntec sold here in North America. I think someone tried to sue them over that point too (just like they were sued over "synthetic" labeling) and Castrol hasn't been advertising that "Unique Molecular Bonding" aspect lately.

F1Crazy, I will definitely post the results of the M1 0W-40. I expect wear to continue to be a bit high, though, since the engine is still breaking in.

If I can find it, I will test German Syntec 0W-30 (SLX?) in a 528i soon. It's getting very hard to find around here--I've seen some red-label 0W-30 that's made in USA with only an ACEA A1 rating.. blech.

Jason

 

[F1Crazy]

quadrun1,
I re-read UOAs you posted to see what results you got with BMW HP Synthetic. After reading your 330xi report I'm glad I decided to change my oil every 5K miles during first 15K miles. It should be enough for that engine to break in properly.
I'm almost at 15K miles and ready for 3rd oil change and I think I'll go 7.5K miles next time.

I see that you're going to try German Syntec (SLX) if you can find it and it will be very interesting to see how it performs in 528i. Just from looking at Castrol data it should be better suited for extended intervals than BMW's HP Synthetic (TXT Softec). FWIW SLX is not only factory fill for I-6 BMWs in Europe but it's also used and recommended by a number of dealerships in Germany. Hope the folks that build these engines know what they're talking about

 

[quadrun1]

Yes, I believe 7,500 miles (even on TXT Softec) is ideal on these cars, as it fits in well with the usual 15,000 mile maintenance schedule that the computer calls for.

Actually, I'm comfortable with 10,000 miles, given the large 7 quart sump capacity. But I'd rather use something better like SLX or M1 0W-40 on that interval.

SLX is factory and service fill in Europe? wow! Hope the local AutoZones restock this.

15,000 miles seems a bit too long no matter which oil is used, perhaps some day I'll see if D1 5W-40 or one of Amsoil's best is up to the task.

Jason

[ August 05, 2003, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: quadrun1 ]

 

[F1Crazy]

quote:

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Originally posted by quadrun1:
SLX is factory and service fill in Europe? wow! Hope the local AutoZones restock this.

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Not in all cars but I think on all non-M I-6s and non-M, non-Valvetronic V8s.
This Polish Castrol site Primus mentioned shows another type of SLX that is used specificaly for Valvetronic engines but the specs on this one are not that special, here is the link: SLX LL01 FE (www.castrol.pl)

 

[Asmodeus]

BMW's High Performance Motor Oil is hard to come by even for BMW owners such as myself.

And when we can get our hands on it, it's close to $15/L, which I find to be excessively expensive for an oil.

But dealerships being cheap and bent on making a profit usually sell us Castrol 5W30 for the same price as the BMW High Performance Motor Oil.

Figure 6.5L for a 3-er, 8 L for both the 5er and 7er. Starts getting costly to have an oil change done with the "BMW Oil".

Hence that's why I said

to BMW, and started doing my own servicing, and am one Auto-RX initial treatment away from M1 0W40 in my car.

Sorry, if my post isn't very technical, I'd just thought I'd share the owner's experience with the oil.

and btw, after running it for the expected 25,000Km, the oil came out pitch black and thick as molases (sp?).

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by Primus:
Given better lubricity of mineral oil and HC then that of PAO, the combination of HC + small amount of Esters gives "Unique molecular attraction".

---

The combination of just about any amount of ester with a hydrocarbon base stock (synthetic or natural) will yield some amount of additional polar attraction of the oil to the metal. And depending on how you define "lubricity," I'd say you've got it backwards: PAO is better than mineral and hydrocracked base stocks.

 

[quadrun1]

Yup, the TXT Softec looks seriously ugly after 15K mi/25K km. That's an expensive price for that oil, geez! Not worth it...

 

[quadrun1]

quote:

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Originally posted by F1Crazy:
Not in all cars but I think on all non-M I-6s and non-M, non-Valvetronic V8s.
This Polish Castrol site Primus mentioned shows another type of SLX that is used specificaly for Valvetronic engines but the specs on this one are not that special, here is the link: SLX LL01 FE (www.castrol.pl)

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Thanks for the clarification! Specs for SLX LL01 FE are interesting: a lower HTHS of 3.0, and pour point of -65F -- similar to Mobil 1 xW-30s.

I also find it interesting that in N. America, M1 5w30 is approved for use in 3ers and 5ers--it's not rated ACEA A3, nor does it carry BMW Longlife spec.

 

[FowVay]

Quadrun, where did you read that BMW approves the Mobil-1 5w30? My manual specifically says to use a oil that meets BMW's Long Life specification. The decal on my engine also has similar wording. No where have I seen that Mobil-1's 5w30 is approved for use in my car.

 

[F1Crazy]

I can't find my manual but I know it mentions that Mobil 1 can be used if BMW HP Synthetic is not available. Mobil 1 is the only brand that is mentioned other than Castrol.