tankless water heater replacement . $$$$

[zzyzzx]

And I thought the HVAC industry was a racket. Sounds like the plumbing biz is just as bad.

Probably. I'm in need of a new water main and I'm going to get many many quotes.. But if the next person tells me that I need a water heater expansion tank to be up to code in order for them to replace a water main, I'm going to just add one before the next plumber shows up for an estimate.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Probably. I'm in need of a new water main and I'm going to get many many quotes.. But if the next person tells me that I need a water heater expansion tank to be up to code in order for them to replace a water main, I'm going to just add one before the next plumber shows up for an estimate.

You need an expansion tank especially if you have a backflow preventer.

Even if you don't have a BFP, an expansion tank isn't a bad idea. It absorbs the expansion of the hot water instead of stressing your piping. Even copper can be stressed. Copper pipe is not a forever material. The elbows wear in copper when the water flows through.... we generally don't experience problems, but nothing is guaranteed.

 

[tbm5690]

My parents have a NG tankless that is responsible for water in the house as well as in-slab heat for the entire house plus the garage. Tankless is absolutely the way to go in that scenario. Yes, the maintenance is worse but well worth it in their case. My house with 2 bathrooms? I'll stick with a tank.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

It amazes me how companies can make something so complicated as simple as heating water, make it sound like it's energy efficient, make massive profits from it and home builders make it sound like a feature.
I would suggest to anyone if you have a choice chose a plain old modern 40 or 50 gallon TANK water heater.
My whole life they have proved very servicable and reliable.

We didnt have a choice with our new home, it's what the builder puts in and now have our first tankless water heater.
Much more complicated and do you know what it does? It heats water like a tank heater, only thing is with the new tankless design I waste a little more water while it kicks in.
I am sure whatever energy benefit is almost zero and cost me more in wasted water. It's just nuts. Our last house had a 50 gallon NG tank water heater and our gas bill so low that I had to pay the min. charge anyway. *LOL*

Tankless do save on space and unless the plumber used oversized supply pipes the cost of the wasted water is negligible compared to the efficiency gained on a traditional water heater. Depending on water usage the savings can be around 30% over a traditional HWH (higher or lower depending on where the water heater is located). Monetarily though it doesn't not translate if the tankless system is not durable and requires expensive servicing. The other thing is that gas tankless systems are fed outdoor air and vent directly to the outdoors rather than the passive systems of a traditional HWH which is fed off indoor air and also allows indoor air to escape through the passive chimney. When the burner is lit it's drawing outdoor air into the house.

 

[PandaBear]

How many 50-65 year olds do you know that have told you their son/daughter is going to school to be a plumber or starting work at a Plumbing Contractor learning the trade?

How many people age 30-65 do you know that tackle their own home repair needs such as Plumbing and Electrical work? How many do you know that change their own oil?

How many service calls do you estimate the average residential plumbing and electrical contractor gets per day? How many do you think have to be scheduled 2-4 days down the road?

Around here pretty much only the first generation immigrant Vietnamese and Latin American doing these jobs. Their children goes into engineering or accounting.

 

[PandaBear]

This is a radio commercial farce if you are speaking about a gas fired water heater. Yes, there is a pilot burning in most of them, but that alone keeps the temp high enough to where the burner does not fire unless there is a draw down. I turn the control valve to pilot when we are gone on vacation.... for a week plus. Come back and the water is hot enough to take a shower.

Hot water tanks are very well insulated.

When I went on vacation I looked at my utility's daily reading online and it is about 0.5-0.75 therm a day to keep the water at "warm" temperature in my garage. It really means only $1 a day of gas.

A $5k replacement cost of the fancy tankless unit will takes you 5000 days of gas alone to justify, it has to last 13 years over a $1k tank gas heater they typically sell for and anyone can replace.

I have no problem with tankless water heater, I grew up with them, the problem we have in this country is the labor cost is too high to do anything the scientifically best way, so we have the keep it simple stupid durable DIY way and just burn more energy instead way. A mini split would probably only cost $500 USD to install in Taiwan and it would cost at least $7500 to install (labor alone) to install in the US, do you think the US installer is 15x better than the one in Taiwan? (no, it is because it cost them a lot to get the natural gas license and they are giving up a lot of higher paying work to install your simple mini split in opportunity cost, so they have to charge that much).

 

[PandaBear]

I suppose converting to a tank water heater isnt an option?
Tankless water heaters are the most overrated thing on the market.
Take a simple device like heating water with a tank and change it back to something developed 100 years ago and sell it as a benefit for new homes, and make a massive profit to boot instead of a $500 tank water heater. GO figure.
Amazing ... but aint that America.

(almost sounds like the EV story)

Tankless can be very reliable if done right. I remember using one growing up and it never gave us problem. That unit does have a pilot light though and the main reason for tankless is the reduction in space required for it (it was mounted right above the shower).

 

[alarmguy]

Tankless do save on space and unless the plumber used oversized supply pipes the cost of the wasted water is negligible compared to the efficiency gained on a traditional water heater. Depending on water usage the savings can be around 30% over a traditional HWH (higher or lower depending on where the water heater is located). Monetarily though it doesn't not translate if the tankless system is not durable and requires expensive servicing. The other thing is that gas tankless systems are fed outdoor air and vent directly to the outdoors rather than the passive systems of a traditional HWH which is fed off indoor air and also allows indoor air to escape through the passive chimney. When the burner is lit it's drawing outdoor air into the house.

Good point about the chimney... though, for us here in the Carolinas the tanks are in the garage so no issue, also ever so slightly keeps the garage a tiny bit warmer in the winter where tankless, in that every 3 to 4 or 5 year super freeze will freeze peoples water lines and they have no hot water until they defrost, again, in the Carolinas because they install them outside on the garage wall.
I guess its a luxury I rather pay for and I am not convinced by any means that it cost more to have a 50 gallon hot water tank, I mean, my gas water heater (tank) bill for our 5 BR 3000 sq ft home cost my wife and I $17 a month for hot water, what would I save if I had tankless, $3 in theory anyway.

For that possible savings, pay a plumber every couple years to clean the coils, oh the gripes I would hear from the other phase of our community about their tankless heaters and where to find a plumber to clean the coils ect... here with the tank its thoughtless. To each their own, I also drive a 3 row SUV not worried about the low cost of gasoline like I am not worried about maybe a few dollars for gas hot water tank (if even a few dollars) only to be spent on maintenance for the tankless and more.

Im not in a home with tankless, the technology is neat but if I had the choice I would have chosen tank as even our own BITOG plumber who services them on the previous page posts. All I am saying is the savings are greatly exaggerated and I firmly believe my new tankless is going to cost way more, yet I am someone who may attempt to clean on my own when the time comes, just look at my gas bill for the 50 gallon hot water heater below. (we recently moved) I mean, $17 a month for hot water and a hot water heater that never needs service until replacement at 12 ish years.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

How many 50-65 year olds do you know that have told you their son/daughter is going to school to be a plumber or starting work at a Plumbing Contractor learning the trade?

How many people age 30-65 do you know that tackle their own home repair needs such as Plumbing and Electrical work? How many do you know that change their own oil?

How many service calls do you estimate the average residential plumbing and electrical contractor gets per day? How many do you think have to be scheduled 2-4 days down the road?

At least 1....

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Tankless do save on space and unless the plumber used oversized supply pipes the cost of the wasted water is negligible compared to the efficiency gained on a traditional water heater. Depending on water usage the savings can be around 30% over a traditional HWH (higher or lower depending on where the water heater is located). Monetarily though it doesn't not translate if the tankless system is not durable and requires expensive servicing. The other thing is that gas tankless systems are fed outdoor air and vent directly to the outdoors rather than the passive systems of a traditional HWH which is fed off indoor air and also allows indoor air to escape through the passive chimney. When the burner is lit it's drawing outdoor air into the house.

You work for a large company that does a lot of "meetings" don't you?

 

[Chester11]

It sounds like she may have gotten the "we have plenty of work" price.

Has anyone used one of these where there is hard water? I'm kicking around installing one for an addition with a new big bathtub, but am really hesitant.

 

[walterjay]

It sounds like she may have gotten the "we have plenty of work" price.

Has anyone used one of these where there is hard water? I'm kicking around installing one for an addition with a new big bathtub, but am really hesitant.

If you have hard water plan on a yearly maintenance flush. That will cost $200. or more depending on what your market is.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

You work for a large company that does a lot of "meetings" don't you?

I take a lot of breaks and am extremely efficient.

 

[snarl]

@Chester11 check out Navien tankless water heaters

 

[Chester11]

@Chester11 check out Navien tankless water heaters

will do...thanks!

 

[andrew_j]

My 15-year-old LOWES' water heater is working well and when it leaks, I will replace it with the same plain 40 gal again.

You have excellent water chemistry . Some places the tank type only last 4-5 years as minerals/chemistry happening in safe drinking water eats it alive.

 

[Aredeeem]

I have a Navien going on 15 years. Reasonably soft water. Never flushed. Saves a ton of space in my utility room. If you listen to enough reviews you’ll never buy anything.

 

[2heeldrive]

An enterprising fellow could make a pretty good living just replacing water heaters. The going rate to replace a standard old 40 gallon gas is $2000 to $2800 around here.

 

[Dinoburner]

If all the states follow NY in preventing the use of gas appliances this will all be a moot point. Three town/cities in NY state have done so in new construction.

 

[macarose]

I agree 100%.

While the pricing for tankless/tank water heaters is very close together now, the installation/re-pipe/electrical to put in a tankless over tank is huge money now and has always been expensive.

You will NEVER EVER NEVER re-coup the additional costs of a tankless where it's a replacement for a gas tank water heater with any savings in fuel costs over a tank. NEVER.

Now... if you install a tankless water heater upon initial construction, you might see some sort of ROI over 12 years over a tank. But, like all these pricing exercises where some uneducated dweeb is shouting from the rooftops as to how much better something is, you've got a 12 year old something-another that might or might now have had some fairly expensive service or repair work done and it's nearing it's promised end of life.

And lemme clarify alarm man - There is not such thing as a $500 standard 40-gallon gas water heater anymore. $850 is about the minimum. I can find scratch-n-dent stuff on the north side of Atlanta (3 hour round trip on a good day for me) for $450-500. That's what I did 7 years ago, I paid $350 for a 50-gallon standard propane water heater from a major manufacturer (HD sell-off).

Where do you go to buy one these days? Our water heater is doing fine after 20 years, but I want to avoid the Big Box stores and the local plumbing syndicates however possible.