Originally Posted By: CdnMax
Wow dnewton3 you continue to trot out that synthetic Vs dino oil tirade. Isn’t it about time you left that “one trick pony” in the barn?
I mean you bring it out time, after time, after time, after time ………. in fact if I wrote the word time for every instance you’ve taken the opportunity to regale the unwashed masses with your opinion on this issue my post alone would be multiple pages long.
You’ve got what, over 2800 posts now? I wouldn’t be surprised if at least 2700 of them were dedicated to this one issue. It’s time to give it a rest and move on isn’t it? We’ve all read you justification criteria and are well aware of your economic model to justify the choices you make. You need to get it through your head there are people out there that don’t give a rats behind about your thought process and will use whatever oil they dang well please. They also don’t need to be told (in not so many words) they’re an idiot for the choices they make and you are so much wiser than them for the choices you make.
Pardon me; I’ve gotten myself off topic already. The main reason I’m posting this is that, for those other folks who may read this post I’m the guy good ole “dnewt” refers to in his attached post about bypass filtration and Redline synthetic oil. I encourage everyone read that thread post. Why? Well it seems our esteemed expert is guilty of doing what he never hesitates to chastise others for. He’s failed to let the facts get in the way of the point he’s trying to make. He says, and I quote: “He’s spent at least 4X more money on synthetics and bypass filtration”
Well if you’ve read that post thread you’ll realize I spent no where near the 4X factor that he loves to throw around. But hey if ole newt actually used the facts from the thread it wouldn’t support his economic justification that he trot’s time and again. So what does he do? He ignores the facts and applies revisionist history and presents it here as part of his justification. I guess when you’re a legend (in your own mind) it’s OK to do that. Just don’t let him catch you doing that though. You’ll be called out and ridiculed every time!
I think a forum like this should allow the free posting of information and viewpoints without a poster having to worry if they’re going to be unfairly ridiculed, criticized, singled out and made an example of just for the benefit of someone else’s opinions. Others and I’ll let you guess who, think it’s their god given right and even their duty to do just that.
You’ll also notice I’ve never posted on the topic of HDEO oil or UOA of the same since the thread that’s been referenced in this post was last posted. I likely never will. I prefer forums that are inclusive and encourage a variety of viewpoints and opinions.
Ole dnewt unfortunately is a poster child for what’s wrong with this forum. While he obviously have a great deal of knowledge and experience to offer he’s got a nasty habit of running other people’s choices and viewpoints down in order to further his pet beliefs and opinions. Life is just too short to have to deal with people like that on a regular basis and I choose not to.
As for the oil in my truck, it’s still in the crankcase, a lot more miles on it and the analyses still look great. Would I like to post that information so that others may benefit from my experience? In a perfect world, yes, on this forum with people like him around, not in a million years!
If you got some "screaming deal" that is not representative of reality for the masses, your "deal" isn't a fair view of costs. If you got the oil for free, or the bypass system at some garage sale, that does NOT represent the true cost of operation. So, just what did you spend on the bypass filter set up, filter media, and oil? When I apply cost analysis, I look at fair market prices; retail to retail, sale to sale, etc. Did you pay fair market prices, or did you score some smokin' deal that no one else can get? Other people who cannot get the "deal" that you may have got for your system and lube cannot fairly expect to pay what you paid. Therefore, the FAIR expectation is approximately 4x the cost factor. If you got it for less, that is GREAT for you. But it does NOT mean anything to anyone else.
Let's just look at some facts:
RL 15w-40 CJ-4 is $44/gallon; retail. Dino oil is $13/gallon; retail. That is a more than 3x factor right there.
Your BP system would cost $500 or more, retail. Replacement elements are $28. A decent FF filter is $10 retail off the shelf at any autoparts store.
Don't forget shipping that might likely apply to your products.
You are EASILY at a 4x factor, sir.
Now, you could apply some "sale" prices to your oil and filter, but then I can often find some screaming deals/rebates on normal oils and filters.
In fact, you are to replace your FS2500 element every 10k miles or so. That is just about the same FCI as a "normal" full flow filter on the Dmax. You will spend almost a 3x factor for your bypass filter compared to my FF retail filter, on the very same interval. Even if you got the FS2500 system for FREE from a friend, your filter maintenance costs are 3x! And most folks can see the forest for the trees here, sir. You have a VERY expensive system to maintain.
Here's the exact retail breakdown for a 10 qrt Dmax at a 10k mile OCI:
Your RL/FS2500 ...
$11/qrt x 10 qrts = $110; add $28 for replacment BP element. Total OCI is $138. BUT - you must ammoritize in the $500 BP system, so perhaps add in $20 for each OCI over 25 OCIs. Plus most people would pay some shipping costs; add another $2 per OCI. REAL total for your first 250k miles of ownership: $160.
My Rotella/Wix ...
$3.25/qrt x 10 qrts = $32.50; add $10 for FF filter. Total cost of $42.50.
Wow! The costs are truly about 4x, aren't they? 4X is a very realistic, reproducable scenario for most folks.
Again, if you stole the stuff you use (figuratively, not literally), you cannot claim that to be a "fair" cost comparison. Yes, I made a presumption that you paid somewhere near "fair" market prices for your set up. I apologize if you found that offensive; it was not my intent to offend you personally. But your set up will cost 4x in reality for most everyone else on this continent. If you want to compare "sale" prices, then fine. My OCI will still always be about 1/4 the cost of yours, presuming you didn't "steal" your system.
The fact that the oil is still in the crankcase is also great; extended OCIs are what bypass and syns are best at. But that does not change my point. At moderate OCIs, you do not realize any "benefit" to the selection of those products. To realize those benefits, you have to GREATLY extend out the OCIs. I was using your UOA as a specific example at a snapshot in time; after sump load at moderate mileage. IN NORMAL OCI DURATIONS, synthetics and bypass filtration do not pay for themselves and offer no more "protection" than do convetional fluids. Comparing my UOA and your UOA are perfect examples of that. Would you kindly point out where those two UOAs, with nearly the exact same performance results, using the same type trucks, pulling the same type loads, for the same duration, are not what I claim them to be?
You see, I really don't care about your personal position in this. You posted up your info in a public domain; it's there for everyone to use as they see fit. Your data proves my point; your set up (would have) cost 4x more money, but only returned the same level of performance in VERY similar conditions. If you don't want your data used to prove how I'm correct, then don't post it. But if you do, don't complain about it. I can acknowledge that your personal costs may not be that high, but that would not be representative of reality for most people. Therefore your personal costs are not a fair comparison point. But your UOA results ARE fair. Comparing your UOA to my UOA is VERY fair. Like it or not, your UOA and my UOA viewed at that specific interval are perfect examples of my point. For a "normal" person to replicate your situation, your set up would cost 4x more money, but return 1x performance at that 6.6k mile snap shot in time.
Please point out my mistakes, relative to the real world costs and lube system performance as viewed in context of my comments. Don't tell me how you scored some fantastic deal that no one else can get. Prove to me that my 4x cost factor is wrong, and that our UOA results are not nearly identical under nearly identical conditions.
