synthetic ?

[mrjlube]

i have been changing the oil in my ford focus ( 87,000 miles) every 4 to 5,000 miles and have been using the motorcraft 5w20! I tow about 600lbs on the weekends and travel 40% hwy and 60% city. Would I benefit at all by using the pplatinum 5w20? or would regular dino be the best?? I am hooked on this oil thing and just want the best with out going broke! plkease give me your opinions!!

Thank you all so much!!

 

[simple_gifts]

If you switch to PP, I would run it out to 8K miles and then do a UOA; no sense switching to PP if you are not going to extend your OCI.

 

[Fester]

I wouldn't change a thing, motorcraft 5w-20 is very good.
I use PP 5w-20 on my Civic, its very good oil.

 

[PT1]

I use PP in everything. I run it 5000 oci because all my vehicles get severe service and 2 have warranty requirements that dictate 5000. I would run PP to 5000 and do a uoa versus 8000. My GMC OLM gets to 10% at about 5000 so I would be conservative until you really know how far you can take it.

 

[Durango]

mrjlube,

If you comfortable using Motorcraft oil then your fine. Motorcraft is a blend of conventional and synthetic anyway so what's wrong with that???

In the future perhaps you might consider Quaker State "Q" in the same weight. It's cheaper than PP or M1 and so far in my 01 Durango it works fine since I'm usually a M1 fane anyway. Iwas curious about "Q" so just once I'm trying it.

Durango

 

[dnewton3]

"I tow about 600lbs on the weekends ..." I've got to admit this one has me curious. Towing with a Focus? What, and how? I didn't think Ford rated it for towing (not that 600 lbs is a heavy load by any means, as 3 200lb friends could equate to the same load).

In regard to the oil; if you are going to change oil every 4-5k miles, regardless of what you put in the engine, then there is no sense whatsoever to running a synthetic. If you are going to extend your drain intervals and do UOA analysis, then there are plenty of decent, reasonably priced group III products out there such as Synpower, PP, Q and such. Or, you can step up to a group IV such as Mobil 1 or Amsoil.

I've had good luck with PP and use it currently, because I find it to be the "best" for me. "Best" is a very dangerous word here, because it speaks to only one application. Best for me may not be best for you. "Best" for you is whatever meets your minimum needs, is readily available, performs adequately to your standards, and is within a cost structure that you find agreeable.

Overall, if you OCI at a max of 5k miles, I'd stick with the MC oil; it does a good job for the money.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
In regard to the oil; if you are going to change oil every 4-5k miles, regardless of what you put in the engine, then there is no sense whatsoever to running a synthetic.


I respectfully disagree. There are more benefits to synthetic than just extended drain intervals.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: NHSilverado
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
In regard to the oil; if you are going to change oil every 4-5k miles, regardless of what you put in the engine, then there is no sense whatsoever to running a synthetic.


I respectfully disagree. There are more benefits to synthetic than just extended drain intervals.

^^^I totally agree,,better hot/cold weather protection,PP is a good oil,use it it'll protect your engine well,like said above just need to use it longer(5-6,000+ miles),good price too..

 

[dnewton3]

I'll certainly agree that synthetics give some advantages in extreme temp conditions. However, in normal operation, these rarely, if ever, come into play.

EXTREME cold would have to be at least below -10 degF, and probably even lower than that, to really find a distinct advantage of "synthetic" oil's pumpability. This guy's in Michigan, but it's just not THAT cold ALL the time to give a definitive "yes" to synthetics. (According to the Weather Channel: the coldest average low in Detroit area is only +20 deg, in January. Sure it gets colder once in a while, but not THAT much colder ALL the time!). Now if we were talking routine, daily exposure to -25 degF? Yeah, there'd be a sure advantage for synthetics. But that is not the case here. Let's not forget he's running a 5W-20.

EXTREME heat would have to include either a mechanical failure of sorts (water pump failure, for example) or turbo exposure during extended hot runs backed up by immediate shut-down, causing coking in the turbo bearings. Now, unless he's not sharing with us the Garrett 204 turbo/intercooler set up he secretly installed under the stock hood, I doubt this is an issue either. Presuming this car has a stock Focus 4-banger, it's a very reliable, moderate performing engine. Heat is not an issue considering daily driving in Michigan. Even his comment of "towing" really isn't overloading the car, given he's probably not using the full occupant capacity anyway. Bottom line is that if the engine temp stays normal (around 200-210 degF), ANY oil can handle that.

That brings us to wear protection. Conventional dino oils can give just as good results as synthetics; the caveot is that they don't last as long in service. Hence, the advantage of longer drain intervals with synthetics.

Synthetics are great products, but they are about making lubricants last longer, not equipment. If the OP is dead set against longer OCI's, then synthetics are a waste of money. Don't let the "perceived" advantages of synthetics cloud the reality of use.

 

[Mephy]

Originally Posted By: NHSilverado
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
In regard to the oil; if you are going to change oil every 4-5k miles, regardless of what you put in the engine, then there is no sense whatsoever to running a synthetic.


I respectfully disagree. There are more benefits to synthetic than just extended drain intervals.

 

[Durango]

dnewton3,

I agree with everything you mentioned however driving any oil beyond 5K or more gives me shivers. No ils is any good unless one has an oil filter that can go those many miles. So far no filter has claimed to go the distance that I know of.

Durango

 

[glennc]

I would stay with the excellent oil you are already using, and spend the difference on at least one UOA, which will give you an actual benefit in knowing your engine's condition instead of the false benefit of using a synthetic oil for short drains. Your present oil is I believe already a Grp II/III blend and PP is Grp III. Many people here have experienced increases in wear using synthetics.

Oh and by the way, good for you towing with a car. I do the same, usually motorcycles. A good efficient use of resources, including the green paper ones.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: Durango
dnewton3,

I agree with everything you mentioned however driving any oil beyond 5K or more gives me shivers. No ils is any good unless one has an oil filter that can go those many miles. So far no filter has claimed to go the distance that I know of.

Durango


Mobil1 EP filters are to be mated with the EP synthetic oils, and therefore can and do go 15,000+ miles. Many other filters can and do work great for extended drains.

 

[Junior]

Originally Posted By: Durango
dnewton3,

I agree with everything you mentioned however driving any oil beyond 5K or more gives me shivers. No ils is any good unless one has an oil filter that can go those many miles. So far no filter has claimed to go the distance that I know of.

Durango


There are plenty of oil filters that can go well past 5000 miles. In fact, Honda recommends changing the filter every other oil change on some applications. I used to be a 3000 mile OCI guy but have slowly worked my way up to 10,000 mile OCI on an 04 V6 Honda Accord. I drive about 20-23k per year. Heck I ran a Pure One filter to 9300 miles without issue.

For the original question, It is all about what makes you feel good. I think either oil will serve you well. If you want to stick with the 4-5K OCI then probably not much need to go to PP unless you want to. I use synthetics as a hobby and have been slowly extending my change intervals. I'm not delutional to think I am saving any money. If it were about the economics I would probabably use MC5W20 a $3-$5 filter, change at 5k and call it a day. Most automotive applications are so easy on oil and modern oils are so good we are really splitting hairs by even looking at the analysis results. The off road equipment made at the company I work for...different story. Don't loose any sleep over oil.

 

[Junior]

Originally Posted By: glennc
Many people here have experienced increases in wear using synthetics.



Don't think I'm ready to believe that statement. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...

 

[glennc]

Here's just one:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...320#Post1112320

You can try to parse variables forever but there are many examples I've seen over the years where wear went up with a synthetic then back down when returning to conventional.

 

[Junior]

There are probably just as many IOA that show the exact opposite. I doubt there is enough data on this site to even trend one way or the other. You may scoff at the variable but those exact variables are important when trying to analyize data scientifically. It's all about sample size and repeatibility. I'm not disputing what you have seen. All I am saying is that is an awfully broad brush you are using with your statement. That is why it is IMO difficult to trend an automotive application. Industrial/commercial engines with constant duty cycles are much easier to trend.

btw, I would expect to see a difference in wear when comparing 5000 miles in 4 months(summer) to 4400 in 8 months. (fall,winter,spring)

 

[chet2]

just go with PP for 20 bucks a jug at wal mart...8k ocis are easily attainable...mc synblend is a great deal too for 10.50 a jug

 

[JohnBrowning]

ive Redline 5W20 a try and run it out to 8,000 the first time and 10,000 the second time. Do not bother with a UOA the first time since Redline will be doing some cleaning. The second or better yet the thirrd OCI with Redline will be a great UOA. The reason I am going with Redline is because it has crazy amounts of Molly and will greatly improce your feul ecconomy even though it is a bit thicker then other 5W20's!It will not thn out at all and will take any fuel dilution that you might have from all the city driveing. In fact I am preetysure that you could probably get 12,00 miles out of Redlines 5W20 because of all the calcium,moly and ZDDP in it. Oh did I mention that Redline will make your engine run smoother and more quite then it already is!!LOL you probably will not be able to tell if the engine is running at idle!

 

[glennc]

Originally Posted By: Junior
There are probably just as many IOA that show the exact opposite. I doubt there is enough data on this site to even trend one way or the other. You may scoff at the variable but those exact variables are important when trying to analyize data scientifically. It's all about sample size and repeatibility. I'm not disputing what you have seen. All I am saying is that is an awfully broad brush you are using with your statement. That is why it is IMO difficult to trend an automotive application. Industrial/commercial engines with constant duty cycles are much easier to trend.

Those are all the obvious and mostly valid arguments I'd expect somebody to make, which is why I confine my statements about synthetic vs. conventional to fairly safe, conservative observations with words like "may" or phrases like "I tend to think."

What you questioned, of course, was my statement that lots of people here have had wear increase with synthetic oil, and this is an example of that, whatever the reason might have been. There are plenty of others, and I'm sure you could show some of the exact opposite, but as to what I do actually believe, it is that the pattern of increased wear with synthetics is prevalent (not necessarily to a large degree, but to some degree); and increased wear with conventionals is the exception.

When I first joined BITOG I was a synthetic user and it was the UOAs showing excellent (I think better) wear performance of conventionals that made me switch back to the latter. I'm now experimenting with Grp V synthetics in my own cars, but I am personally almost convinced that conventional oils actually have advantages in pure wear protection compared with the most common synthetics. I do believe synthetics are superior in many ways, most obviously durability and probably cleanliness, but not in wear protection.

In fact, it occurs to me that the makers of these synthetic oils do not even claim decreased wear for their products, or at least I have not seem this myself. They seem to make claims about cleanliness, acceptability for long drain intervals, and specific qualities such as cold flow and high temperature performance.

Can you show any solid evidence that synthetics such as PP or M1 reduce wear? Or can you show a claim to that effect by a manufacturer of such products?