synthetic / wear protection

[[RT] ProjUltraZ]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3

A lesser expensive synthetic (perhaps a bargin house brand group III) may not do any better than a premium dino with a great add-pack, when it comes to wear protection.

Wear control is about setting upper limits found to be "normal" for an acceptable exposure. Say you set an upper limit of 20ppm Cu for your test over 5k miles. If the dino posted 17ppm, and the synthetic posted 12, many would declare the syn the winner. But I contend that both passed the test

The fluids have to rely on both the viscosity and add packs to provide "protection". As a lubricant moves "up" the perceived scale of oil group, it's ability to hold additives actually dimenishes a bit. So where is the "sweet spot", so to speak?


Mr. D Newton III - yous wicked smaht and it perfectly illustrates my situation with short trips, extreme duty, and 2,000 mile OCIs in 6 months. i came to a similar (though less reasoned) conclusion last week when i decided on MaxLife synblend 10w30 for $14

 

[GMFan]

It has more to do with your right foot than the oil in the sump in most cases.

 

[Pablo]

Yeah that's the 3 times (3X) the standard test. No one says much about that. Oh well.

 

[FZ1]

Gimmee the synthetic!! I think it probably wears better,is more robust for my severe driving,and pays for itself with .25 to .50 mpg more. Nothing against conventional,in fact,I've got some free dealer fill in right now!

 

[kgb007stb]

Did we not have a discussion some time ago in the used oil analysis forum which asked the same question? May pointed out that the new generation of SM/CJ oils closed the gap pretty extensively. Since many people “generally” have the same driving habits over an extended period of time, many at the time concluded that their used oil analysis did not show any significant differences between Conventional and synthetic. Search the used oil analysis threads and look for people using synthetics and conventional oils in their severe duty operation vehicles.

We at my work have a 10 year old Chevy Lumina with 38,000mi, it gets started once a day for a 2mile run all year long. The engine pulls well, has been serviced with the cheapest Conventional oil available, and the oil change light just came on after three years/4,400mi. Car still runs fine, I’d like to see that engine tear down.

 

[FZ1]

You may absolutely be right. I just prefer the syn for 6 mo. ocis and think it might pay for itself.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Amsoil makes some excellent products they always have. Not all of their products though are the best that can be had they have their share of comprimise products these days! They also have lost sight of their priceing! Their claim to fame was that they where always a little bit better then M1 and just a tad more expensive but now they are about the same as they ever where but price is about double what you pay for M1!

I thinkthat Amsoils will in the not to distanct future have to give up it's MLM system. They can not continue to raise their prices and still sell enough volume of product to support the MLM structure.

I think their are some really good Amsoil reps like Pablo and Gary Alan but few meet their standards of knoldge and experince!Most Amsoil reps I have ran into knew less about oil then my 9 year old! The [censored] that falls out of their mouths while trying to pitch their products is mind blowing!!! My wife has to grab my arm some times at state fairs and sucha nd tell me to come on!!!!LOL

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: buster
Quote:
Mobilgrease Special
Gray-Black Color, Visual
280 Penetration, Worked, 25º C, ASTM D 217, mm/10
190 Dropping Point, ºC, ASTM D 2265
Viscosity of Oil, ASTM D 445
160 CSt @ 40º C
250
4-Ball EP, ASTM D 2596, Weld Point, Kg 0.4
4-Ball Wear test, ASTM D 2266, Scar, mm
40 Timken OK Load, ASTM D 2509, Lbs
Rust Test Pass


Mobil uses the 4 ball wear test for grease and gear oils, not motor oils.

http://www.mobil.com/Canada-English/Lubes/PDS/IOCAENPVLMOMobil_1_Synthetic_Grease.asp

There are different types of 4 ball tests. They use the same apparatus, but the setups are different.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=616&relatedbookgroup=Lubrication2

Notice that Amsoil uses the ASTMD 4172 which is an anti-wear sliding test, not an EP test. The tests that Mobil cites on that page are different tests. Not much sliding in an engine but the cylinders do as well as anyone with flat tappets should pay attention.
I agree that this is a minor test mostly used for marketing, but IMHO it does have some value in specific cases.

 

[buster]

True, they are different. I think you're right in that it may have some value. As to how much, I really don't know.