Synthetic vs. non-synthetic

[plexx]

I have been reading this forum for a while now and there is a ton of great information here , but the one thing that I have learnd is if you change your oil often and use a decent oil your motor will last 200k easy.Now the question, Red line oil cost 9.00 a quart aprox. and Schaeffer's cost 3.00 a quart for the blend.Ok say you have a high end filter (mobil 1, K&N) or whatever and you are running redline in this motor with 9-12k change intervals,the other motor is running Schaeffer's blend with oem filter or other low cost filter at 3-5k change intervals, same cost more or less.What would be better in the long run for the motor, one oil change every 9-12k with a quality synthetic, or more frequent changes (3-5k) using a good blend like Schaeffer's? From what I have seen on the UOA it seems that a good oil like Schaffer's does holds up just as well as most synthetics sometimes even better.Any thoughts?

[ March 23, 2003, 07:48 AM: Message edited by: plexx ]

 

[Neil Womack]

First don't sell the Schaeffer's short at 3 or 4 or 5 k. If you try the Schaeffer's run an analysis at 4k to see how its doing. I've seen where the Schaeffer's gone over 6k and still looked good. Of course that depends on your engine and driving conditions.

Additionally, don't count on that high dollar filter to extend the life of your oil. All oil will have a life span in any given application. And filtration is only good to get the solids out of the oil it will not stop the pH change of the oil.

Some evidence exists that a good (read cheap) high flow filters is better for your engine than one of those $10.00 15 micron filters. I'm currently a Purolator PureOne user. I have not had any bad experience with the PureOne but some of Bob's experiments show flow is more important than filter rate. Once my PureOnes are gone I'm probably going with OEM filters until more evidence exists.

 

[plexx]

Neil; that is what I was trying to get at,I have swithched from Redline to Schaeffers and I now use the oem filter.I think this combo at 3-5k drain intervals should give me all the protection I need.I will also be doing oil analysis to confirm this.What oil and drain interval are you using?

 

[TooSlick]

Plex,

If you take into account the value of your labor to do an oil change ($15.00-$20.00), then the comparison changes considerably. For me, using amsoil and changing it even every 7500 miles costs about the same in materials & labor as using a petroleum oil and changing it every 3000 miles. If you service 3 vehicles as I do, there is also a lot less cleanup mess with the extended drain synthetic. Oil and filters are cheap, but you still have to do the labor.

The same is true if you have your oil changed at a quick lube - a petroleum oil changes costs about $25.00. If you buy 5 quarts of Amsoil along with one of their premium filters and take it to be changed, the total cost will be about $55.00-$60.00.

 

[buster]

I'm on board wit TS. I've been chaning the oil every 7,500 miles using both Amsoil and Mobil 1. With dealer costs, I save a ton of money/time and have a better oil. My family takes there vehicles to JL and othe quick lube places and pay $26 for dino and lousy service. When you break it down, I think a qt of Amsoil comes to $5 (roughly) x 4qts + a filter $26. So for $26 and my time, I have a superior oil that can go 10K plus easily and overall better performace. I feel if your going to change the oil yourself, why not use synthetic. Quick lube places chage $50 for Mobil 1.

 

[Chris B.]

And how do you really know if they put in Mobil1 for your $50.00? I had some bad experances with some quick lube places and I just don't trust them or even the dealer after they could not tell me for sure what kind of oil they put in my car! Do it yourself and know it got done right!

And I think I'm sold on synthetics (Mobil 1) for my cars. They are a step above.

 

[Green Max]

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris B.:
And I think I'm sold on synthetics (Mobil 1) for my cars. They are a step above.

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Do you think they are a step above for 3-4k changes or only in extreme temperatures and extended drains?

 

[Chris B.]

I think both. I just got a 2002 Camaro for my wife and a 2003 Silverado so I want to keep these running for a long long time (200,000+miles). So I read up alot on oil to use for my new cars and I read alot that synthetics like Mobil1, Amsoil and such are very clean running and in the short and long run really do reduce wear on engine parts and keep the engine very clean.
I'm no expert but that is what I got from reading here and else where and oil analsys studys. Although many folks have got high mileage with dino oil also.

 

[Green Max]

Chris, I find some 3-4k dino results here (Chevron 10W-30 SL for example) that would make a short synthetic oil change a waste of money. It may or may not be worth to run synthetic oil in your car: that would depend on many factors including type of car, driving pattern, climate, etc. In my case synthetics appear to be unnecessary and I intend to find out with several UOAs. FYI, I am a long time Mobil1 user. IMHO, years ago dino oils used to be crap and Mobil1/Amsoil were clearly the winners but dino oils have improved tremendously, especially with the SL formulations.

 

[plexx]

Since I only put about 5k a year on my truck, would the Schaeffers be the right choice? I want to change the oil at least once a year since almost all of the mileage will be in town / stop and go driving.I saw on the UOA section that the Schaefers seem to hold up just as well as most of the full synthetics, this and the fact that it only cost about $3.00 a quart makes me wonder if this is all I need for this car.

[ March 23, 2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: plexx ]

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

Actually, Most of you are selling Schaeffers short when it comes to mileage. I have been running my schaeffers oils for 7500 miles + per oil change. Normally, if I do anything above 7500 I'd be looking at sampling it so to verify drain intervals don't exceed the oil's life. So, just for fun, if you were to change at 7500 miles, which schaeffers has no problem doing, instead of 3-4 or just 5,000 miles, I think those numbers would look quit a bit less appealing. I have seen evidence of schaeffers oils going past 10,000 miles on oil drains with no problems whatso ever as it too is very clean running and in the short and long run really does reduce wear on engine parts and keeps the engine very clean. So, where's the full advantage of a full synth?, Look at the numbers, you'll see it for yourself.

 

[buster]

Based on everything I've read on this board tells me Schaeffers is the most under-rated oil. It really holds up well.

 

[Quattro Pete]

quote:

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Originally posted by plexx:
Now the question, Red line oil cost 9.00 a quart aprox. and Schaeffer's cost 3.00 a quart for the blend.

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FYI, Mobil 1 (a pretty good full synthetic) retails for $5 or even less at some discount stores or if you buy directly from a distributor.

 

[plexx]

Bob this is what I was getting at, The Schaeffer's seems to hold visc.,get great wear numbers , good for extended drain and all at a much lower price.I think full synthetics are good for certain applications but for the most part, a well built blend or dino will be more than good enough.Schaeffers does seem to be a very underated oil and the comany seems to want to keep it that way.

 

[buster]

quote:

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I think full synthetics are good for certain applications but for the most part, a well built blend or dino will be more than good enough.Schaeffers does seem to be a very underated oil and the comany seems to want to keep it that way.

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I agree, but for drains well over 10k miles, Amsoil and Redline are your best bet. These oils have stronger additive packages that enable longer use. I'd say M1 and Schaeffers are good up to 10K or so based on what people have stated on this site.

[ March 23, 2003, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: buster ]