Synthetic really Dino?

ScottB · Oct 26, 2006

I tried searching, but I didn't find what I was looking for.

There is a thread on another forum and this guy is convinced that ALL synthetic oil IS conventional oil.

Now, I know that some newer synthetic brands that are relatively cheap use conventional starting materials, but aren't the likes of M1, Amsoil, etc. 100% synthetic-based? (carrier?)

I don't want to get into a flame-war if I'm not correct on this.
I ASSumed that 100% synthetic meant all man-made materials (or, non-conventional)

Thanks,
Scott

jonny-b · Oct 26, 2006

He may be right. All socalled synthetics seem to have a percentage of dino in them. But, there is at least ONE exception: Synlube This is the cheapest oil to use, since you don't have to change it for a while, and because of the fuelsavings.

Edit: Please do NOT link to non site sponsor sites.

sxg6 · Oct 26, 2006

Synlube..

Toy4x4runner · Oct 26, 2006

I'm convinced it probly is, and they're just taking us for a fany ride.. maybe, how the Flip are we gonna really know. I used to pay $10/qt for Amsoil, tried Mobil 1... used Advance Auto brand oil, used regular valvoline for years... Never lost an engine to lubrication failure. Although my wallet was much lighter after the Amsoil & M1 LOF's.. and the Mobil 1 CEO got a nice retirement.. Poor guy needs it.

Toy4x4runner · Oct 26, 2006

synthetic-
Function: noun: something resulting from synthesis rather than occurring NATURALLY; especially : a product (as a drug or plastic) of chemical synthesis.

Sounds to me like everything is synthetic.

deven · Oct 26, 2006

So are you really saying that the oil companies are fooling the SAE? I have done certain tests at home with identical conventional and synthetic oils and you can definately see the difference. Try putting an identical spec conventional and synthetic oil in the freezer and tell me which flows better. From what you are insinuating they should pour the same but my eyes dont see that. Maybe its time to email SAE or even ILSAC and ask the same question and post what their replies are. Also go onto any reputable oil site and look at all the different specs(pour point, flashpoint etc..) and ask yourself why those are different too.

ScottB · Oct 26, 2006

Come on guys, this is not what I expected the BITOG experts to come up with!!!

Lonnie · Oct 26, 2006

Johnny, have you ever used Synlube? Has anyone used it? I looked at the web site and it looks like it must be the best oil in the world. With all the oil geeks on this site there must be someone using it. Is our search for the best synthetic oil over, now that we have Synlube? I guess when it comes to quality, you get what you pay for.

JohnBrowning · Oct 26, 2006

Moderators can be please add "Synlube" to the list of banned auto censored words just like swear words!!!! Synlube is a bunch of phyco babble. It is about as credable as Miracle Tonics that can cure everything from arthritis to small poxs! As for weather or not all synthetics are dino that is a another ball of wax altogether. If the oil is made from group IV or V thenit is a true synthetic. If it is made up of any base stock other then the above it is not synthetic.Now in the USA the word synthetic is only a marketing term so they can call anything they want to synthetic. This was not always the case and you have Castrol to thank for it. Most so called synthetics sold over the counter in the USA are not true synthetics. M1,Amsoil and Redline are all 100% synthetic and do not have any dino in them at all not even as a carrier for additives.If you review the groups and how they are processed it will explain a lot to you.

G-MAN · Oct 26, 2006

Quote:

Johnny, have you ever used Synlube? Has anyone used it? I looked at the web site and it looks like it must be the best oil in the world. With all the oil geeks on this site there must be someone using it. Is our search for the best synthetic oil over, now that we have Synlube? I guess when it comes to quality, you get what you pay for.

It's snake oil.

ScottB · Oct 26, 2006

"As for weather or not all synthetics are dino that is a another ball of wax altogether. If the oil is made from group IV or V thenit is a true synthetic. If it is made up of any base stock other then the above it is not synthetic.Now in the USA the word synthetic is only a marketing term so they can call anything they want to synthetic. This was not always the case and you have Castrol to thank for it. Most so called synthetics sold over the counter in the USA are not true synthetics. M1,Amsoil and Redline are all 100% synthetic and do not have any dino in them at all not even as a carrier for additives.If you review the groups and how they are processed it will explain a lot to you."

Now THAT is what I was looking for.
Thanks, JB.

Scott

mikemc · Oct 26, 2006

The line between group 3 syn and high quality dino is becoming very gray. I decided that for me, the best deal was group 2+ dinos like Havoline or good cheap blends like Motorcraft and TropArtic used at 4-5K intervals.

ScottB · Oct 26, 2006

I guess I'll stick with my overpriced, gray M1

Seriously, I don't mind the extra money, and until I see proof to the contrary, I still feel it's the best for my use.

Scott

JohnBrowning · Oct 26, 2006

mikemc, I would agree that group III oils have improved a lot. In many ways they give you a large portion of the performance that synthetic has as long as you stay away from the extrems or heat and pressure. In the range that most people need protection they do a good job. My problem with most GIII oils is that the companies useing GIII usualy do not pass any of the saveings on to the customer. A GIII synthetic should cost 30%-50% less then a GIV,V oil.Now one such oil that represents a good value and is GIII is Rotell-T Synthetic 5W40. I also think that GII and GII+ base stock oils are great especialy for short OCI's!!!We have seen Chevron Supreme and latter Havoline turn in some great UOA at really low cost's. This time 2 years ago Chevron Supreme was $1.05 a quart.

Ron AKA · Oct 26, 2006

I see it the other way around - at least in Canada the only SM/GF-4 group IV oil that comes close to group III synthetics for price is Mobil 1. So if one is really convinced that group IV oils offer any practical advantage then Mobil 1 is a good buy. Which is what makes me wonder how much group IV is really in it.

Ron AKA · Oct 26, 2006

Quote:

I tried searching, but I didn't find what I was looking for.

There is a thread on another forum and this guy is convinced that ALL synthetic oil IS conventional oil.

Now, I know that some newer synthetic brands that are relatively cheap use conventional starting materials, but aren't the likes of M1, Amsoil, etc. 100% synthetic-based? (carrier?)

I don't want to get into a flame-war if I'm not correct on this.
I ASSumed that 100% synthetic meant all man-made materials (or, non-conventional)

Thanks,
Scott

Man is not so good at making molecules - yet! However we can take compounds made of molecules and make other compounds.

If you take chains of hydrogen and carbon, break them up, combine them, add hydrogen, and make something of this, is it synthetic man made, or not? Consider this process with is used to make group III synthetics and tell me if you think the end product is man made or not?

sootyoil · Oct 26, 2006

Nov 2000 Car& Driver
Article writtten by Patrick Bedard
(Synthetic Motor Oil get's all new semantics.)
He explains how Mobil 1 took their complaint to the
National Advertising Division (NAD) because Castrol
started using the term Full Synthetic when they changed formula of Syntec oil.
Castrol eliminated Polyalphaolefin (PAO) in their Full synthetic oil and replaced it with hydroisomerized petrolium base stock.
to sum this article up I love this article it makes big oil what it is.
Mobil 1 sued Castrol over the word Synthetic and niether company use PAO true synthetic base in their oils and charge PAO oil prices for conventional oil.

sootyoil · Oct 26, 2006

Quote:

Quote:

I tried searching, but I didn't find what I was looking for.

There is a thread on another forum and this guy is convinced that ALL synthetic oil IS conventional oil.

Now, I know that some newer synthetic brands that are relatively cheap use conventional starting materials, but aren't the likes of M1, Amsoil, etc. 100% synthetic-based? (carrier?)

I don't want to get into a flame-war if I'm not correct on this.
I ASSumed that 100% synthetic meant all man-made materials (or, non-conventional)

Thanks,
Scott

Click to expand...

Man is not so good at making molecules - yet! However we can take compounds made of molecules and make other compounds.

If you take chains of hydrogen and carbon, break them up, combine them, add hydrogen, and make something of this, is it synthetic man made, or not? Consider this process with is used to make group III synthetics and tell me if you think the end product is man made or not?

the first part, CRUDE OIL is the BASE hrydrocracked or not it still is crude and rude to charge as much as real PAO oils.
conventional oils do not withstand heat and time as well as 100% synthetic PAO oil

Ron AKA · Oct 26, 2006

Consider that viscosity index of the base oil is probably the best measure of raw quality. Suggest you compare the quality of these various base oils.

http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/BaseOils/comp_light.shtml

And this one. See the Visom 4 column to compare to the oils in the previous link.

http://www.exxonmobil.com/Germany-English/Basestocks/PDS/GLXXENBSKEMVisom.asp

Blue99 · Oct 26, 2006

Quote:

conventional oils do not withstand heat and time as well as 100% synthetic PAO oil

Spot On Sooty!

Here's the link to ExxonMobil's Spectrasyn PAO Basestocks Specifications

Note the comparison of this 126 VI index PAO (ExxonMobil has a higher grade, SpectraSyn Ultra) with the 140 VI index Visom.

The SpectraSyn PAO 4 cSt base oil has a flashpoint of 220C and a pour point of -66C. It is a Noack volatility of 14%.

The Visom Grp III 4 cSt base oil has a flashpoint of only 200C and a rather "warm" pour point of -18C. It has a Noack of 14.2%.

So, is this statement true, "The viscosity index of the base oil is probably the best measure of raw quality."?

Not when we have a rather low on the totem pole 126 VI PAO matching & beating a 140 VI Slack Wax Grp III!

Also, note that the various ExxonMobil divisions are very consistent with their definition of "synthetic", and nowhere does the Fawley site claim that the Visom Grp III product line is a synthetic fluid.

Synthetic really Dino?

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