Synthetic Oils, Change Intervals, PQIA,& Questions

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So I've spent a few hours around here, more than I wanted or needed I think, and I've come to these conclusions and have learned these things: (please correct me if I'm wrong)

Most name brand oils are pretty much the same. The small differences, most people wouldn't really care about and would consider insignificant, except for motor oil fanatics/extremists/terrorists.

I would feel comfortable running almost any fully synthetic oil for 10,000-12,000 miles from what I've gathered. And I plan on buying any fully synthetic oil from here on out- whatever it is that's on sale. I would feel comfortable running almost any conventional oil for 7,000 miles, but I'm probably going to stick with fully synthetic around 10-12,000.

I'm sure you guys are aware of this study and have a lot to say about it, but as an oil newb, this was all I knew of love: http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil Tests.pdf

From that I took a liking to Valvoline Maxlife Durablend, and have ran it in 2 cars and have a jug left that I'm planning to run 7,000 miles in for my 2001 Corolla. I'm doing all this blind with no UOAing because I feel pretty comfortable with those longer intervals from what I've gathered around here. I was just shocked, I mean my whole world changed when I heard that you don't need to change your oil every 3,000. There's even a government initiative here in CA, (and of course, it's gotta be CA), trying to inform the public and to cut back on all that waste.

So I've got 0W-20 Amsoil Synthetic Signature Series in my 2001 Toyota Corolla right now. It calls for 5W-30 but Toyota has approved 0W-20 for that car according to some chart I saw online once somewhere at some point. It gets to maybe 30 degrees in the winter here and I wanted to reap the benefits of a .00001% increase in fuel economy. Totally worth it. It has an Amsoil oil filter.

It's at 6,750 miles right now, and I plan on going 12,000 miles. My commute is 5 miles to and 5 miles back, city. I drive like a toad in mud, and coast to red lights, for fuel economy. My grill is partially blocked off as well, for aerodynamics and to speed up warm-up times, if that matters. Would 12,000 miles be alright? Could I go longer? I've thought about doing an UOA. Maybe if I get the money but I'm not that fanatical about it. I just don't want to waste perfectly good oil, like some crazy person I know who changes their Royal Purple every 3,000 miles or something. So yeah, after this, I'm going to run the Valvoline MaxLife Durablend 5W-30 for 7,000 miles. What viscosity should I use? I know nothing about it except 0w-20 will save me an 3 cents a year in gas from the extra fuel economy that I plan on using to make a wish in the mall water fountain, and that the W stands for winter, and that's all I know. I've heard of this strange 5W-20?

My other car is a thing of beauty. 1987 Chevrolet Sprint TURBO. A re-branded Suzuki Cultus. It's Japanese. Oh when I bought this thing, it idled like death in [censored], and would die at idle. The owner replaced the O2 sensor, and possibly did other things as well. The issue was just an old dirty clogged up air filter, suffocating and choking out the engine, so that it would die at idle if you didn't open up the throttle some. Ten bucks later, there was glory. Three cylinders in all of it's turbo-charged glory. Zero to sixty in eight point seven seconds, only two seconds slower than a V8 Camaro of the same year. It weighs 1,600 pounds, and is basically aluminum foil on wheels. But anyway, it called for 10W-30, and I gave her 10W-30, Valvoline Maxlife Durablend. It has a 3x Fram filter. I have no problem with Fram or the mid-tier 95% filtration. But in the future I would opt for a fully synthetic with a top-tier oil filter. And the one that's on sale. Some of these oil rebates are insane. I know Pennzoil has a $10 rebate with $5 off a future purchase. You could get a jug of synthetic for 13 bucks and have another $5 on top of that. Insane.

Quick question - how often should you change your air filter? I have since renounced K&N air filters from what I've learned and I am saddened by them. The oil and MAF sensor problems, and the increased engine wear, and the chore of oil and cleaning, all makes it bitterly disappointing.

I have another question - what's a good list of good synthetic oils readily available at major outlets that won't break the bank? I will never touch Royal Purple for instance. I had a go at AMSOIL because there was a discount (though that discount may just basically be for anyone who signs up, lol), and I saw a lot of their studies, but who's to say if they weren't biased. From what I've heard here on BITOG, AMSOIL is top-notch though, so that is nice, and I do like them still. But a bit pricey, and I think the other synthetics are just as good and the difference won't matter to most people, myself included. I don't expect my engine to get an extra 25,000 miles from using AMSOIL over say, Synthetic Napa, for instance. So I'm thinking these so far, and feel free to chime in, with a top 3 or something.

For instance I'll probably stay away from Quaker State Synthetic. I'm sure it's fine but what I heard from one random guy once on the internet somewhere, there are better oils. And I'm never going to buy Mobil 1 again, because of hearsay and superstition and legends of poor performance and mediocrity and other unfounded reasons. Lol, I'm sure it's a fine oil, but maybe for a purely emotional reason, I'll never touch the stuff again.

So I was thinking these are top-tier, affordable oils, widely available at major outlets, when they're on sale/with a rebate special:

-Pennzoil Ultra (I like Pennzoil Platinum, but so long as there is Ultra, I will go with Ultra.)
-Castrol Edge w/ Titanium
-Valvoline SynPower
-Valvoline MaxLife Synthetic (What's the difference between this and SynPower? Because if it's like Pennzoil Platinum and Ultra, I want the Valvoline Ultra one, whichever it is.)
-Napa Synthetic

-Crisco Vegetable Shortening
-Extra Virgin Oil Olive

Some stupid part of me would love to use some obscure special brand of synthetic oil no one's ever heard of, and put stickers of it on my toolbox. But I try as much as I can to try and shut that stupid part of me up.

Should I put Quaker State Synthetic on the list? If it's even mildly, almost imperceptibly inferior, not even in reality but even in blind perception, then I'd like to reject it. Oh, I have nothing against Quaker State. Should I put it on the list? I think making a list of oils I plan on staying away from would be equally interesting for me. Only synthetics.

-Mobil 1 Synthetic (for reasons stated above. Basically unfounded superstition. A troll witch doctor sorceress once told me that Mobil 1 will bring me death and misery.)
-Walmart SuperTech Synthetic (I know the wonders of SuperTech. Just rebranded oil - exact same stuff as the name brand oil. But I cannot bring my stupid, self-righteous, pretentious, bigoted/racist self to buy Walmart oil. It's basically racist to reject Walmart oil, somehow, because SuperTech is super good stuff. And if I weren't so stupid and petty and stupid, I would run that in my car until the day I die because it is so so cheap.)
-Mobil Super Synthetic (I once saw someone change their oil with Mobil 5000, and my pretentious, AMSOIL self was so disgusted. You should have seen my scoffing face, as if I saw a man eat his own vomit. So bigoted, so close-minded, so racist. I am ashamed. But I still cannot bring myself to buy this oil, which in my mind is cheap and inferior and for homeless people's bicycles.)
-Autozone Synthetic
-O'Reilly's Synthetic (I know, I know, what a bigoted [censored]. I have no problem with Napa Synthetic but I scoff at Autozone and O'Reilly's Synthetic Oil. "What, do you think you're better than me or something? What, are you too good for Autozone oil? Did your mama lube your little Fisher Price tricycle with the used oil of some rich Saudi Arabian price's Maserati growing up? I've been running gas station no name Bullet motor oil since 1868 at 50,000 mile intervals without a problem, you synthetic [censored]. I hate everything about who you are and what you wish to become."

I might try Halvoline Synthetic. But if the others are on sale, I'd probably prefer them. I was curious about Eneos, some obscure brand I've never heard of, but judging from these UOAs: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1960498, it seems like a 7,500 mile oil and not a 12,000+ synthetic oil. So what other readily available, good synthetic, affordable oils are there? (i.e. not 9 dollar a quart Royal Purple. Yeah, more like Royal pain in the wallet, amirite? Hah! more like uhh... hold on let me think of a good one... hmmm.... uhh... More like! More like makes my... I'd need a purple pimp fur coat to afford that stuff! Hah! I want so much to be loved and accepted.)

-Tell me about http://www.pqiamerica.com. I don't know what to make of those charts. Why can't they just order them in order, lol. I know it's not that simple, but the average consumer would appreciate that. I am a stupid ignorant mass. I wish it would just say, this oil is the winner! This oil is the loser. The threads here on BITOG talking about the PQI studies are just arguing and it's not clear-cut and one guy says this oil won and other guy berates him and insults his intelligence, lol. I'm just a dude who wants to know what oil to buy and how often he should change it, and which is the best oil, let's be honest. I know know, there isn't a best oil or whatever, but I'm going to say it's AMSOIL, there, I said it. I know, I'm an idiot, and I accept that. Can we just get a sticky or something? Or a 1 page, summary, maybe a few sentences? "These synthetic oils are pretty good: They'll last at least 10,000 miles, and many go 15,000 miles and beyond. These synthetic oils are not as good:" 3 sentences. Can we do that? I know, I know, I'm stupid. But please, someone do that. Someone give me those three sentences, all things be [censored]. Please.

Have you guys heard of these new nano-technology miracle motor oils that are supposed to soak into the metal and increase engine compression? Lol, I want to see the 20 page post-a-thon of argument and hatred on that.
 
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For the top tier I would add GC,especially when AAP runs it's BOGO sale. I'd say QSUD and PP can't be beat for being at the $21 mark.
 
No oil goes for X amount of miles, and nobody can give you the security blanket you are looking for.
If your vehicle is under warranty, follow the OEM interval. If it is not....follow the OEM interval.
If you want to run extended drain intervals...follow the OEM drain interval.
If you spend $100 on oil and a filter...follow the OEM interval.
 
Originally Posted By: salv
No oil goes for X amount of miles, and nobody can give you the security blanket you are looking for.
If your vehicle is under warranty, follow the OEM interval. If it is not....follow the OEM interval.
If you want to run extended drain intervals...follow the OEM drain interval.
If you spend $100 on oil and a filter...follow the OEM interval.

So even with AMSOIL Synthetic Signature series, on a super easy normal service, maybe a 25 mile highway commute in sunny California, where severe service is 15,000 miles and normal service is 25,000 miles, I should change it out every 5,000 miles (the OEM recommended oil change interval)?
 
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yes. no manufacturer will stand behind an extended drain interval, nor are they required to.
If you end up with excessive fuel dilution that leads to poor lubrication and engine damage, Amsoil will blame contamination and the manufacturer will blame extended drain intervals. Either way, not covered, buy an engine.
 
Originally Posted By: salv
yes. no manufacturer will stand behind an extended drain interval, nor are they required to.
If you end up with excessive fuel dilution that leads to poor lubrication and engine damage, Amsoil will blame contamination and the manufacturer will blame extended drain intervals. Either way, not covered, buy an engine.


Why are there so many UOAs on here of really extended intervals I mean 7,000 to 10,000 to 12,000, to 15,000 and more miles, with really good amazing results? Are they damaging their engines by these extended intervals, or should they go back to changing their oil every 3,000, 5,000, 7,000 miles?
 
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My point is that the manufacturer does not care about these reports. They specify an interval and expect you to follow it. If you are under warranty and do not abide by the what the manufacturer specifies, you are at fault if something fails.
If the manufacturer specifies a 5k interval and you go 25k because you used Amsoil SS, you can consider your warranty toast.
 
Originally Posted By: salv
My point is that the manufacturer does not care about these reports. They specify an interval and expect you to follow it. If you are under warranty and do not abide by the what the manufacturer specifies, you are at fault if something fails.
If the manufacturer specifies a 5k interval and you go 25k because you used Amsoil SS, you can consider your warranty toast.


Oh okay, so it's fine to go with an extended interval if you aren't under warranty then.
 
Sure. Then if the engine fails, you get to argue with Amsoil, and you get to prove to them that the engine was in perfect working order before you went 25k on an oil change with a store bought filter.
then they would want all of your previous records, to ensure that there
was no abuse prior to failure.
 
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Originally Posted By: salv
Sure. Then if the engine fails, you get to argue with Amsoil, and you get to prove to them that the engine was in perfect working order before you went 25k on an oil change with a store bought filter.


What's a good conservative change interval for AMSOIL Synthetic for someone running normal service? I don't think anyone would risk going 25,000 miles, but I don't think anyone would change it every 3,000 miles.
 
Originally Posted By: freshcedar
Oh okay, so it's fine to go with an extended interval if you aren't under warranty then.


I wouldn't extend intervals blindly. It is very risky. Two engines of the same model do not necessarily wear and/or deplete oil the same. Each engine has it's own identity. If you're really curious about extending OCI's I would suggest doing it with UOA's and doing it in stages.

For example get a baseline UOA result with a specific oil at the car manufacturer's specified interval. If the oil still looks good then extend the intervals 1k-2k miles at a time. At least in this process you do not go over the capabilities of the oil for the engine it's being run in.
 
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Originally Posted By: KHP
Originally Posted By: freshcedar
Oh okay, so it's fine to go with an extended interval if you aren't under warranty then.


I wouldn't extend intervals blindly. It is very risky. Two engines of the same model do not necessarily wear the same. Each engine has it's own identity. If you're really curious about extending OCI's I would suggest doing it with UOA's and doing it in stages.

For example get a baseline UOA result with a specific oil at the manufacturer specified interval. If the oil still looks good then extend the intervals 1k-2k miles at a time. At least in this process you do not go over the capabilities of the oil for the engine it's being run in.


That's a great suggestion. It is risky, but I think they're calculated risks. I'm not going to go 25,000 miles, but I think it's safe to go at least 5,000 miles with AMSOIL Synthetic. I'm sick of the waste. So many people blinding changing their oil at 3,000 miles, with good expensive synthetic oils. It's madness.

Originally Posted By: salv
Well, how about 5k on a much cheaper oil. Amsoil is a waste of money.


The discounted price I got it at was pretty much on point with other synthetic oils. I wouldn't buy it again unless it was discounted. But on this particular run, since it's already in there, with 6,750 miles on this AMSOIL, what would be a safe time to change it? 5 mile trips, mild weather. Should I change it now? 2,000 miles ago? at 7,500? 10,000? 12,000? I don't plan on doing a UOA.
 
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Originally Posted By: freshcedar
The discounted price I got it at was pretty much on point with other synthetic oils. I wouldn't buy it again unless it was discounted. But on this particular run, since it's already in there, with 6,750 miles on this AMSOIL, what would be a safe time to change it? 5 mile trips, mild weather. Should I change it now? 2,000 miles ago? at 7,500? 10,000? 12,000? I don't plan on doing a UOA.


It's actually very difficult to tell. All we can do in your scenario is guess. It's like throwing a dart into a dart board blindfolded expecting to at least hit close to the bullseye or even the board itself.

If I was to guess I would say 7,500 miles is a safe check point.

Btw what car are we talking about here?
confused2.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: freshcedar
(please correct me if I'm wrong)

Most name brand oils are pretty much the same.

Wrong.


Originally Posted By: freshcedar
I have another question - what's a good list of good synthetic oils readily available at major outlets that won't break the bank?
So I was thinking these are top-tier, affordable oils, widely available at major outlets, when they're on sale/with a rebate special: ...

-Pennzoil Ultra (I like Pennzoil Platinum, but so long as there is Ultra, I will go with Ultra.)
I was curious about Eneos, some obscure brand I've never heard of, but judging from these UOAs: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1960498, it seems like a 7,500 mile oil and not a 12,000+ synthetic oil.

Pennzoil Ultra is an excellent oil, no qualification. Eneos is a MAJOR Japanese oil company; it is about as far from "obscure" as you can get.

Originally Posted By: freshcedar
I'm an idiot, and I accept that. Can we just get a sticky or something? Or a 1 page, summary, maybe a few sentences? "These synthetic oils are pretty good: They'll last at least 10,000 miles, and many go 15,000 miles and beyond. These synthetic oils are not as good:" 3 sentences. Can we do that?

When Abraham Lincoln was elected president of the United States, Schaeffer Oil Company already was several decades old. Schaeffer, still owned by the same family, is the oldest oil company in America, and the oldest corporation of any kind in the state of Missouri. Throughout its long history, Schaeffer has been at the cutting, bleeding, edge of research and development; serious racing car teams love Schaeffer Oil products. If you ignore Schaeffer's products (Supreme 7000 and 9000 full synth) because you regard them as "obscure," then you have just shot yourself in the foot. and proved that you are not serious in seeking advice. [Those were four, not three, sentences; please forgive me for running over your limit.]
 
I'll definitely look up Schaeffer Oil. I've never heard of them. Eneos I might look into too. I've never heard of them and neither have most people I know. Not as widely known as Pennzoil or Valvoline. But hey, the Japanese make great stuff. I'll definitely look into it.
 
Originally Posted By: KHP
It's actually very difficult to tell. All we can do in your scenario is guess. It's like throwing a dart into a dart board blindfolded expecting to at least hit close to the bullseye or even the board itself.

If I was to guess I would say 7,500 miles is a safe check point.

Btw what car are we talking about here?
confused2.gif



It's a 2001 Toyota Corolla. VVT-i engine, same as the Celica. 120,000 miles. I think 7,500 sounds good.
 
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Originally Posted By: freshcedar
I'm an idiot, and I accept that. Can we just get a sticky or something? Or a 1 page, summary, maybe a few sentences? "These synthetic oils are pretty good: They'll last at least 10,000 miles, and many go 15,000 miles and beyond. These synthetic oils are not as good:" 3 sentences. Can we do that?

No, you're too hard on yourself. You're not an idiot, but you might want to cut back on the caffeine.
 
I'd recommend you do UOA's as you extend drain intervals past what the manufacturere recommends. They cost around $30 or so but they're worth it. I'm thinking along the same lines as you in extending drain intervals and would like to go to 10K intervals on a quality full synthetic oil like Amsoil SS. But I've decided to take it in steps, going from 5K to 7K and then maybe 8K after that and then maybe 10K (provided the UOA's look good, of course). As someone mentioned, every vehicle and engine is different, and that's not only a function of how it was manufactured but also how it's driven. So there's no one-size-fits-all answer to your question of which synthetic oils are really good or which could go 10K or 15K. Amsoil does well against many of its competitors in ASTM standardized tests (Noack volatility, four ball wear, etc.) so one could probably make a case that it's one of the better synthetic oils. Buy one still can't say for sure that yes, it's good for 10K miles - depends on the vehicle it's put in.

For instance, I own a Saturn and a Honda Odyssey. I would not leave even a synthetic oil in the Saturn for more than 5000 miles because it is hard on engine oil, and the manufacturer (which no longer exists) recommended oil changes at every 3K miles. But the Ody engine (which is non-VCM, by the way) is quite easy on oil at 5K miles and I could definitely go longer than that on it. How much longer remains to be seen, and the UOA is the only empirical way of knowing how well your oil is protecting your engine from excessive wear.
 
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