Synthetic Oil for Modified Car

[zzz]

RI_RS4, that's right, I forgot to mention it's the same motor as the elise.

The cam problem is known and is probably due to the valve lift engagement at the high RPMs. I have a friend who's got the same motor and has run mobil 1 all his life and has been fine. Granted he does not drive the motor hard like I do and is not boosted either, it still has to say something.

It's interesting how Lotus recommends 5w40 when Toyota recommends 5w30, perhaps because the lotus ones are boosted (at least the...Exige, if I remember correctly).

I was unaware GC is a group IV. Would I benefit from a Group V oil instead? For Motul, I am only interested in the 300V, which is supposedly their best oil and is a group V, correct?


By the way, my car has just over 60,000 miles. What is a ZDDP package and what does it do? Which oils would have a large quantity of this, as suggested by RI_RS4?

 

[artificialist]

ZDDP is an additive that protects against metal to metal wear when the oil film is completely squeezed out.

However, there are more types of additives than ZDDP. Soluble Moly, Boron compounds, and a few other types of additives come into mind.

So the Lotus Exige gets 5W40? GC is very close to a 40wt at operating temperatures, so close that many German car makers that recommend 5w40 also recommend GC.

 

[zzz]

I'm told that Benz, BMW, and Audi all like to run GC (at least the dealerships).

What bugs me is that GC decided to reformulate and make their oil NOT as good as the old green stuff.

Honestly though, how would you guys compare GC vs Motul 300V?

 

[buster]

Mercedes uses Mobil 1.

I would look for an oil high in ZDP as well but in situations where there is an engine design or quality issue, there is often not much you can do.

 

[Drew99GT]

In this application, with known cam wear issues, and the fact it's getting the snot beaten out of it, I wouldn't use an API SM/GF-4 oil. I'd be looking at Redline or other oils designed for this type of use. Redline 5w-30 would be at the top of my list.

Something like Rotella 5w-40 would suffice as well, but I'd stick to a 5w-30 with high ZDP like Buster indicates.

Another option would be Valvoline VR-1 10w-30.

 

[oilboy123]

What about Amsoil Dominator racing oils they just came out with?

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: oilboy123
What about Amsoil Dominator racing oils they just came out with?


Indeed. I just read Pablo's using it his minivan. Apparently it has enough detergents to be run on the street, but I wonder if it has too much ZDP. Anyone know the zinc/phosphorous levels?

 

[Jaymus]

Doesn't GC have around 1200ppm? That's a great amount.

 

[zzz]

The cam wear doesn't really bother me much since the same motor is in the Celica GTS and has been since 2000 (along with the Vibe GT, the Matrix XRS, and the Lotuses in other production years) and this isn't like it's happening left and right.

Can someone confirm this for me? I read it on another forum and it basically stated: Ester based oils are the best and only Amsoil and Motl are Ester based. GC is not.


Also: with price not in mind and OCI being 5000 miles, what would you use in my situation? GC or Motul 300V?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: zzz
The cam wear doesn't really bother me much since the same motor is in the Celica GTS and has been since 2000 (along with the Vibe GT, the Matrix XRS, and the Lotuses in other production years) and this isn't like it's happening left and right.

Can someone confirm this for me? I read it on another forum and it basically stated: Ester based oils are the best and only Amsoil and Motl are Ester based. GC is not.


Also: with price not in mind and OCI being 5000 miles, what would you use in my situation? GC or Motul 300V?


AMSOIL is PAO based. No idea on Motul. Redline is Ester based.

I wouldn't put much stock in that claim...

 

[RI_RS4]

zzz

you started off by stating that the engine is modified with a supercharger. As a result, you'll be running hotter than a stock engine that was designed for 5W30 oil. The Lotus engine runs hotter, due to it's mid-engined placement. Because of this, they bumped the viscosity requirement up to 5W40. (If you bump up the oil temperature by 20F, the oil needs to bump up to a 40 weight to maintain the same operating viscosity.)

Since GC runs in the high 30's (where many 5w40 oils end up), and the 2zz-ge engine will fuel dilute with a supercharger, I'd run GC out of the two. If I wanted better performance, I'd go with the RLI Biosyn 5W40 HD oil, which will withstand dilution better, and has a killer additive package, designed for high performance engines.

 

[zzz]

RLI is...red line something? link?

And yes, it is modified but even then, Underdog Racing (which specialized in a few toyota platforms) suggest I stick with the factory recommended oil. I personally don't know what's better or worse.

But if GC is better because it runs close to a 40 weight oil, doesnt that mean any oil with a 5W40 rating would be better regardless? I'm not sure what additives do but all things considered, I think price will drive me to GC since it's only $7/qt.

 

[rg200amp]

Try searching around here. All of these issues were talked about.

 

[Geonerd]

Originally Posted By: zzz
RLI is...red line something? link?

And yes, it is modified but even then, Underdog Racing (which specialized in a few toyota platforms) suggest I stick with the factory recommended oil. I personally don't know what's better or worse.

But if GC is better because it runs close to a 40 weight oil, doesnt that mean any oil with a 5W40 rating would be better regardless? I'm not sure what additives do but all things considered, I think price will drive me to GC since it's only $7/qt.


RLI is http://www.renewablelube.com/ These fellows are a strange lot. Maybe I missed it, but I can't find data of ANY sort on their web page. The best they can do for a FAQ is point to several BITOG threads! There is no hint of API certs, or even a lone XOM-like vague claim regarding their lubricant's characteristics. For all we know, they are selling Castor oil and liquefied cow farts? Hmmmm ... that might work pretty well!

All that boost makes me want to use slightly thicker oil, with better HTHS values. For what VERY little it's worth, I'd suggest Redline in 10-40 or so. It's GRP5, temp resistant, 4.7 cP high temp high shear, and lots of zinc, moly and phosphorus anti-wear goodies.

M1 15w-50EP wouldn't hurt anything either. It has similar HTHS numbers, so isn't much 'thicker' at the bearing level than a solid 40w. Maybe an M1 Frankenmix? 50:50 0w40 and 15w50ep, just for fun?

Whichever oil you choose, periodic UOAs sound like a good idea of you're leaning on the motor often. And be sure to post the results here for us UOA junkies!

0.02c

 

[addyguy]

Amsoil Dominator RD-30 (10W-30) would be a great oil here...

 

[RI_RS4]

Originally Posted By: Geonerd
Originally Posted By: zzz
RLI is...red line something? link?

And yes, it is modified but even then, Underdog Racing (which specialized in a few toyota platforms) suggest I stick with the factory recommended oil. I personally don't know what's better or worse.

But if GC is better because it runs close to a 40 weight oil, doesnt that mean any oil with a 5W40 rating would be better regardless? I'm not sure what additives do but all things considered, I think price will drive me to GC since it's only $7/qt.


RLI is http://www.renewablelube.com/ These fellows are a strange lot. Maybe I missed it, but I can't find data of ANY sort on their web page. The best they can do for a FAQ is point to several BITOG threads! There is no hint of API certs, or even a lone XOM-like vague claim regarding their lubricant's characteristics. For all we know, they are selling Castor oil and liquefied cow farts? Hmmmm ... that might work pretty well!

All that boost makes me want to use slightly thicker oil, with better HTHS values. For what VERY little it's worth, I'd suggest Redline in 10-40 or so. It's GRP5, temp resistant, 4.7 cP high temp high shear, and lots of zinc, moly and phosphorus anti-wear goodies.

M1 15w-50EP wouldn't hurt anything either. It has similar HTHS numbers, so isn't much 'thicker' at the bearing level than a solid 40w. Maybe an M1 Frankenmix? 50:50 0w40 and 15w50ep, just for fun?

Whichever oil you choose, periodic UOAs sound like a good idea of you're leaning on the motor often. And be sure to post the results here for us UOA junkies!

0.02c


Here's some information

RLI data thread

Audi RS4 biosyn update

Double-Super-Secret 5W40 Audi RS4 oil

Publications:
Quote:


Publications and Papers in support of RLI’s program:

Paper STLE Meeting, May, 2008, Cleveland, Oh. Title: High Performance Engine Oils with Vegetable Oil and PAO Blends, Dr. Ken Hope, (Chevron Phillips Chemical Co.) and William Garmier (Renewable Lubricants Inc.)

To View Cleveland STLE

Paper STLE Meeting, May, 2008, Philadelphia, Pa. Title: Balancing Lubrication Properties of Vegetable Oil and PAO Blends, Dr. Ken Hope, (Chevron Phillips Chemical Co.) and William Garmier (Renewable Lubricants Inc.)

To View Philadelphia STLE



Lubricants & Fluids Technical Advisory Panel in Chicago, IL, September 19, 2006, Title: Balancing Lubrication Properties with Vegetable Oil and PAO Blends, Dr. Ken Hope, (Chevron Phillips Chemical, Co.) and William Garmier (Renewable Lubricants, Inc.)



Formulation and Commercialization Development Panel Chicago, IL, Sept.17-18, 2002 Project United Soybean Board #2417 Passenger Car Engine Oil Development Title: Update on Lubricant Program at RLI, W.W. Garmier (Renewable Lubricants, Inc.)



Lubricants & Fluids Technical Advisory Panel in Chicago, IL, September 13, 1999, Title: RLI’s Progress on Engine & Hydraulic Lubricant Formulations, W.W. Garmier (Renewable Lubricants, Inc.)



Lubricants & Fluids Technical Advisory Panel in Chicago, IL, August 20, 1998, Title: High Temperature Stability with Soybean Oil, W.W. Garmier (Renewable Lubricants, Inc.)



89th American Oil Chemists’ Society (AOCS) Annual Meeting and Expo, May 10-13, 1998, Chicago, IL. Title: Vegetable Oil Performance in High Temperature Hydraulic and Engine Lubricants, W. W. Garmier (Renewable Lubricants, Inc.)



SAE International Congress and Exposition, Detroit, MI, Feb. 23-26, 1998, Title: Use of Vegetable Oil Lubricant in a Low Heat Rejection Engine to Reduce Particulate Emissions, Andre’ L. Boehman, William H. Swain, David E. Weller and Joseph M. Perez (The Pennsylvania State University)



Lubricants and Fluids Technical Advisory Panel Meeting in Chicago, IL, August 18, 1997, Title: Vegetable Oil Research Studies on Hydraulic Fluids and Engine Oils, J. M. Perez (The Pennsylvania State University) and W. W. Garmier (Renewable Lubricants, Inc.)



International SAE Fuels & Lubricants Conference, San Antonio, TX, Oct. 14-17 1996, Vegetable Base Lubricants for Automotive Applications, J. M. Perez (The Pennsylvania State University) and W. W. Garmier (Renewable Lubricants, Inc.)



The National Corn Growers Association Conference in St. Louis, MO, June 5, 1996, William W. Garmier was a panel speaker on the topic of; To Market We Go: Innovation to Commercialization. Title: Pioneering Corn-based Lubricants to Commercialization.



Paper STLE Meeting, May 19-23, 1996, Cincinnati, OH. Title: Lubrication Properties of Castor Oil a Potential Base stock for Biodegradable Lubricants, S. Asadauskas, J. M. Perez, J.L. Duda (The Pennsylvania State University)



47th SAE Earthmoving Industry Conference & Exposition, April 16-17, 1996, Peoria Civic Center, Peoria, IL, Title: A Vegetable Base Lubricants for Transportation Applications, J. M. Perez (The Pennsylvania State University) and W. W. Garmier (Renewable Lubricants, Inc.)



47th SAE Earthmoving Industry Conference & Exposition, April 16-17, 1996, Peoria Civic Center, Peoria, IL, Title: A Tribology of Vegetable Oils-Oxidation and Wear Studies, S. J. Asadauskas and J. M. Perez (The Pennsylvania State University)



50th Annual Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers (STLE) Meeting, May 14-19, 1995, in Chicago, Illinois. Title: Oxidative Stability and Antiwear Properties of High Oleic Vegetable Oils, S. J. Asadauskas, J. M. Perez, and J. L. Duda, (The Pennsylvania State University) STLE Volume 52, 12, 877-882, Lubrication Engineering (Dec. 1996).

 

[zzz]

Cool thanks, looks like I have some reading to do because I can decipher any of those acronyms you guys are using or what more zinc means for my motor. I'll post up when I understand this a little better.

 

[Leo]

300V Double Ester formulation has a really beefy add pack. Lots of ZDDP and Moly, coupled with a nice base package! I'd be shooting for that, but it depends on how much you can get it for! I wouldn't be paying much more than Redline prices for it..