Redline or Motul in new Honda

cvl

Messages
150
Location
Indiana
I'm looking for oil recommendations for my mildly modified K20A3. Stock rev limit is 6800rpms and mine has been raised to 7700rpms. Stock oil recommendation is 5w20, but the K20A2 (stock rev limit of 8100) calls for a 5w30 oil. I figure that a heavy Xw20 or light Xw30 would be best. The two that I'm looking at are Motul 8100 0w30 and Redline 5w20. The Motul is 9.5 at 100C, 167 VI, -71F, 432F and 11.2 TBN. The Redline is 9.1 at 100C, 145 VI, -49F, 484F and 10.0 TBN. It also has a 3.3 HTHS and 8% NOACK. I've tried GC and it's too thick.
 

Patman

Staff member
Messages
21,989
Location
Oakville, Ontario
I'd love to see a UOA on either one of those two choices! I'd lean towards the Motul only because we've seen a few Redline UOAs though, and Motul is still an unknown oil (however it's got a good reputation)
 
Messages
211
Location
Mississauga, ON
I'd run the Motul 8100 0W-40 in that engine. It's got an HTHS of 3.66 so it'll protect better at high RPMs. That's what I'm running in my stock H22A4 and the engine's very smooth with this oil.
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
I'd get a case of the Synergyn 0w-20 and test the second batch I ran ....I don't think it's quite as thick as the Redline 5w-20, so top end performance and fuel effciency should be better. I'd estimate the HT/HS is perhaps 3.0 Cp for the Synergyn. It's got 1500 ppm of ZDDP, along with about 150 ppm of moly and 150 ppm of boron. The TBN was about 9.5 as I recall. Stuff smells like rocket fuel, due to the high ester content.
 

cvl

Thread starter
Messages
150
Location
Indiana
I'll certainly do a UOA, but I only put about 8,000 miles a year on my car, so it probably won't be until fall.
 

cvl

Thread starter
Messages
150
Location
Indiana
I hadn't thought about the Synergen. Here are its specs: 8.8 at 100C, 165 VI, -65F, 410F, 9.5 TBN (reportedly). The 8100 0w-40 is going to be too thick. GC is too thick. FYI, Honda's own oils are 8.3 and 10.5.
 
Messages
9,448
Location
USA
Both companys make a good product. I would lean towards Redline because they use a beefier additive package.If you decide to go with a really light oil in a high RPM high load situation you will need all the barrier additives you can get! THe few Motul UOA I have seen show that it's TBN drops off even faster then Redline. What made you think that GC was too thick? Are we useing dyno numbers or UOA numbers????? It my personel belief that 20wt. oil will not protect at high rpm and high load conditions as well as a 30 wt. P.S. You do know that Motul is French owned so you money would be supporting a company that is supporting a socialist country.
 

cvl

Thread starter
Messages
150
Location
Indiana
The GC just feels too thick to me. I know that it sounds dumb, the the engine's willingness to rev just isn't the same with it in. The weather is also really cold here.
 

Jay

Messages
1,607
Location
Idaho Falls, ID
I think it's more important to look at HTHS viscosity than kinematic viscosity when choosing an oil. I've been experimenting on my own K20A3 to see how low I can go in HTHS and I haven't found the bottom limit yet. I've tried M1 5w-30, M1 0w-30, and finally M1 0w-20 and my wear numbers have kept improving. I'll sample my 2nd interval of M1 0w-20 soon and then try Synergyn's 0w-20.
 

cvl

Thread starter
Messages
150
Location
Indiana
I agree about HTHS, but those numbers are hard to come by. Why are you going to try the Synergyn if it's a thicker 20w than the M1? You might want to look at Silkolene's 0w-20. It seem to be very similar to the M1. Are you running a Hondata Jay? The guy at Synergyn was very friendly. He claimed that there is only one specific ester that can be used in motor oil. He said that diesters could never be used. I was under the impression that diesters were used and that there were many esters available.
 
Messages
988
Location
Melb, Aus
Hi, Have you considered the Motul 300v 5w-30? Both my son & I are running this oil. His 180sx Nissan 2 litre turbo is fairly modded and much higher boost than standard. Seems to run fine and it is fairly hot here being summer. My car is a standard 200sx S15. I was considering the 8100 but afer comparing the specs thought the 5-30 would suit me better. From memory the 300v is a high 30 weight. I didn't won't to run a 40 weight. BTW: I have considered using Redline, but at twice the price of the Motul, no. It is about $120+ for an oil change with Redline, Motul abt $70. [ December 19, 2003, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: theguru ]
 

cvl

Thread starter
Messages
150
Location
Indiana
300v is great oil, but it's too thick for my application. I used to use it in the turbocharged 1.6L engine in my last car and loved it. I was a little dismayed with Synergyn claiming that diesters couldn't be used in automotive oils. He also mentioned that polyol esters could only be used sparingly because of seal swell (he'd never seen an oil with higher than 30% ester content). He also said that polyol esters weren't very slippery. Synergyn 0w-20 is 30% esters and the rest is PAO.
 
Messages
69
Location
Rochester, NY
quote:
Originally posted by cvl: The two that I'm looking at are Motul 8100 0w30 and Redline 5w20. The Motul is 9.5 at 100C, 167 VI, -71F, 432F and 11.2
CVL, Where did you get that data? I have a copy data sheet of 8100 E-tech Lite 0W-30. According to the sheet Density at 15c = 0.863 Viscosity at 100c = 10.2 cSt Viscosity at 40c = 58.1 cSt Viscosity Index = 177 Pour Point = -76 F Flash Point = 432 F TBN 12.5 By the way, today I changed oil w/ Motul 8100 E-Tech 0W-40 on my turbo Talon. I did noticed one thing the ordor was very distintive. Nothing like Mobil 1,but somewhat like German Castrol. It makes me believe that GC is ester based. Man, that smell....it gotta be Ester! [Big Grin] [ December 20, 2003, 01:21 AM: Message edited by: TurboFrog ]
 

cvl

Thread starter
Messages
150
Location
Indiana
Weird. What's the date of your data sheet? I got my data sheet directly from Motul and it's dated 09/02. Perhaps they've thickened it up a bit since then. If so, I'm definetely not going to be using it. I'm going to call Motul on Monday and ask their tech directly. Of note, my data sheet has density at 0.855 and viscosity at 40C of 54.2.
 
Messages
69
Location
Rochester, NY
quote:
Originally posted by cvl: Weird. What's the date of your data sheet? I got my data sheet directly from Motul and it's dated 09/02.
cvl, Mine is dated 04/03. They must have changed the formulation.
 

Leo

Messages
911
Location
Australia
I would recommend 300V 5w-30. It has 100C viscocity of 12Cst. I dont see any advantage at all running a thinner oil if your proud your engine can rev so high!
 

cvl

Thread starter
Messages
150
Location
Indiana
The advantage of thinner oils is more power, better gas mileage and better protection in some instances (flow vs. viscosity).
 
Messages
988
Location
Melb, Aus
I agree with you Leo. I can't see that there is much advanatge (probably hardly measurable) in Hp and fuel economy. Besides if you are flogging your car you can't possibly be worried about good fuel economy. My sons car redlines at 7,500 and he regularly runs it to that. Boost at 1.3bar. He was running the 10w-40 300v previously. He isn't concerned about fuel economy, he buys 98 octane and adds a $20- bottle of Nulon Octan boost to it. He runs 850cc injectors. Standard 370-450cc. IMO if you are starting at 20 weight you don't have much margin if it thins. Anyway, how about a UOA and lets see how it goes. Should be interesting. Leo, I now have the Motul 5w-30 in 3 cars here, and will go in the 4th once the Auto-rx rinse is finished.
 

Leo

Messages
911
Location
Australia
Yeah you like the 300V dont you theguru? Haha Its good stuff!! But yeah, I doubt your gonna tell the difference with a 20wt. The amount of gas in your tank is gonna make more difference, and also how much dirt is in your carpet to weigh the car down. If anything, in a thrasher car I'd be using a 40wt, not a 20wt.
 
Top