Synthetic Comparisons

Pablo · Jul 10, 2006

AutoUnion - I'm not sensitive about it. I just like to keep things factual. If you make a post as you did, you should have the facts behind you. I enjoy being an Amsoil dealer, and I feel it's my duty and honor to keep things factual. If Amsoil makes a claim they can't back, I'm probably the first one giving them feedback. If someone here makes a strange claims - I'll call them on it. You may be surprised that a silly statement such as yours will soon become a "fact" because they read it on "Bob is the Oil Guy".

As for dwendt44's claim - I would like to see his knowledge base. Again, just trying to keep it factual.

Auto-Union · Jul 10, 2006

All is well. Anyone have a link?

A question about the 4-Ball test is that if it simulates or mimics the valvetrain wear levels, why are the wear levels in *actual* use of AMSoil vs Others not any different?

dwendt44 · Jul 10, 2006

'As for dwendt44's claim - I would like to see his knowledge base"

Check the labels.
Only one or two of Amsoils products state that they are API certified.
'Meets all requirements of...', 'equal too', 'equivelent too..', 'passes all tests for..', are marketing hype and not the same as being CERTIFIED.

Pablo · Jul 11, 2006

dwendt44 - Actually the group III XL line (4 different oils) and the PCO synthetic blend are API "certified".

But that's not my question. Can you tell me what API certified means? And why this bothers you so much?

Auto-Union - I think in many cases the wear is lower. But I personally don't think the 4-ball wear test is a great predictor of normal wear in real use - I think it only comes into play in extreme low oil film situations. And how hard is that to compare and show up on a used oil analysis?

ConfederateTyrant · Jul 11, 2006

dwendt44, certification in all actuality doesn't mean squat, other than a test was performed and all parts pass specifications. The test can be performed without paying the money to get it licensed. It's not as if there is a secret procedure which is hidden until a company pays the expensive fees for the licensing.

ATF and gear oil are not API certified, so what do you do then? Only thing listed are "Meets all requirements of..." and the such that you mentioned. Regardless of whether you believe it's marketing, every company uses "Meets or exceeds..." one way or another, there's no way around it.

buster · Jul 11, 2006

The Amsoil additive packages already meet the requirements so it's really not an issue.

TooSlick · Jul 11, 2006

Auto-Union,

I'd say that the oil temps/loads (and resulting pressures) used by Amsoil are significantly higher than you'd see under normal driving conditions. They'd be more representative of heavy towing, driving in the mountains on a regular basis, operating a supercharged/turbocharged engine or actual racing.

TS

cristphoto · Jul 12, 2006

But that's not my question. Can you tell me what API certified means? And why this bothers you so much?

Pablo - how about you tell us what API certified means. You said you were a dealer, so share your knowledge. Also when GM did their oil testing on the Corvette Amzoil was tested but not recommended for use since it wasn't API certified and didn't meet all requirements. What is your response to that?

buster · Jul 12, 2006

cristphoto, at one time Amsoil used higher amounts of ZDDP, a primary anti-wear additive, then the API allowed. GM, if I'm not mistaken, has been one of the major companies for lowering the ZDDP amounts to reduce CAT Conv. poisoning.

The API isn't a bad thing and in fact I think it is good. Without any regulation or standards, we would have HUGE quality issues with oil. The latest API SM/GF-4 spec is very tought and signifies a good product.

Titan · Jul 12, 2006

I don't particularly like a lot of the Amsoil reps that don't have a clue, and just try to hype up the product so they can sell it and put a dollar in their pocket. But, that's the same for drug reps, or any other salesman that acts in that manner.

Pablo ain't one of those people.

In my opinion, Amsoil gets WAY too much negativity because of a few knucklehead dealers. In fact, the negativity bothers me so much, I ordered 6 quarts of Amsoil Motorcycle oil to put in my Monster motorcycle. I want to have actually tried it and come to a conclusion about it's use in my machine, so I can defend Amsoil, or side with the naysayers. But, either position requires that I try it. I bet it's going to perform fine. Even so, I'll probably go back to my Rotella synthetic/mineral brew after the run with Amsoil, because I have a wet clutch setup, and I think shorter OCI's are probably better for those trash-shedder, as opposed to trying to get extended oil use. But, if Amsoil really holds it's viscosity well, they might earn my continued business.

Pablo · Jul 12, 2006

cristphoto - I will wait for dwendt44's answer, thanks. In time, if he doesn't respond I will anwser the question for you.

As for your assertion about GM and Amsoil, can you please site your statements. References please. Keep it factual guys.

stingray427 · Jul 12, 2006

Mobil 1 is the easiest to purchase and find. Mobil 1 costs less than Redline and Amsoil. Amsoil though I have heard good things about it must be purchased through a distributor and is more difficult to find. Redline is easier to find at stores. If these 3 oils are basically the same as to engine protection I believe Mobil 1 will be the favorite since it is available everywhere at a lower cost.

Pablo · Jul 12, 2006

Amsoil is easy to find and is delivered in a day or three. In my neck of the woods, M1 is more expensive than Amsoil! (No I won't drive 20 miles to a WalMart!)

mburnickas · Jul 12, 2006

quote:

Originally posted by stingray427:
Mobil 1 is the easiest to purchase and find. Mobil 1 costs less than Redline and Amsoil. Amsoil though I have heard good things about it must be purchased through a distributor and is more difficult to find. Redline is easier to find at stores. If these 3 oils are basically the same as to engine protection I believe Mobil 1 will be the favorite since it is available everywhere at a lower cost.

I agree and this is from a 15 year amsoil user. I switch to Mobil 1 since it is cheaper then Amsoil now. Amsoil ASL is 5.55 per qt. Mobil 1 Truck and SUV, $4.34 per qt. No waiting for UPS to stop at house & no shipping costs. I do like Amsoil but there are not to like...

hounddog · Jul 12, 2006

I ran a Chevy 305 250k and sold it running great with Amsoil 10w30 Full Synthetic and once a year 25k oil changes.Every 3k what a waste of oil and time.

dwendt44 · Jul 12, 2006

No sure what your question was, Pablo.

API certification means(at least to most folks) that the oil was tested and evaluated by someone other than the manufacturer, or their paid consultants.

I'm sure, knowing some Amsoil dealers, that any answer that doesn't fit with Amsoil advertising hype/propaganda would be discounted or ignored in any case.

OriginHacker21 · Jul 12, 2006

As a preferred customer I can get Amsoil ASL 5w30 for $5.55 a quart. Mobil 1 5w30 at Wal-Mart was $6.19 when I checked a few months ago. With shipping maybe they are the same. Seriously though folks - if you are buying high quality oil you will pay a lot - so why is price such an issue??? Like a Porsche 911 Turbo owner complaining about gas prices.

The fact is this.... Both Amsoil and Mobil 1 are GREAT oils. If you take care of your car with a sound engine you should be able to get to hundreds of thousands of miles on either oil. As for one oil being better than another - there are tests but I prefer the UOA method with my engine. I recommend testing both oils and doing used oil analysis and then making a decision.

I think it comes down to if you are a person who prefers Pepsi over Coca Cola.

stingray427 · Jul 13, 2006

How does Amsoil ship? How fast can they get it to me?

I need to find out if they meet GM specs. for rear end diff. fluid synthetic 75w/90 and ATF Dexron III (h)for a 2005 Corvette 4 spd. automatic.

mburnickas · Jul 13, 2006

when I used amsoil, It took anywhere from 3 to 7 working days...

Pablo · Jul 13, 2006

quote:

"No sure what your question was, Pablo.

API certification means(at least to most folks) that the oil was tested and evaluated by someone other than the manufacturer, or their paid consultants.

I'm sure, knowing some Amsoil dealers, that any answer that doesn't fit with Amsoil advertising hype/propaganda would be discounted or ignored in any case."

My question was: "Can you tell me what API certified means? And why this bothers you so much?"

Not sure why the attitude cop. I merely wanted to read your reasoning, your level of knowledge on the subject matter. We are all learning, but to call everything Amsoil does "hype/propaganda" is a prety broad stroke, and sorta smacks of what you accuse them of doing. As I have stated I like to keep the opinions, the faith, fact based

I have nothing against API. They are a large "institute" and do much more than motor oil. One thing I think people miss is that ILSAC (International Lubricants Standard and Approval Committee) actually sets the standards, the requirements. API only does the logistics of the approval.

I do not speak for Amsoil, but Amsoil has never had an issue with the ILSAC (sequence) performance standards. These standards can be considered as minimums - and until SL-SM hit the streets were not terrribly tough to meet. Amsoil has always far exceeded the performance test requirements of ILSAC. You don't have to believe this, but to imply that the oils don't meet or doesn't exceed, needs to be backed up factually. To continue down that line and say that the only good oils are "API certified oils" is disingenuous at best.

Indeed Amsoil has not agreed with the P lowering (on XW-20/30 PCMO's), (SJ - SM,SL) and has used this in their "reasoning" statements. It is interesting to see Amsoil lower their P levels as they follow the additive manufacturers as Buster states. However - Amsoil's major objection has been and remains to be the API formulation control and base oil substitution rules. Amsoil wants to remain staunchly independent - yet they like to make a buck, too. Hence the XL line towing the line for warranty reasons and mainly because new cars probably shouldn't go 15K+ miles on the second OCI.

Amsoil does some of their own initial testing on ALL their oils. Then they send them out to an independent, approved lab - of course Amsoil pays the bill - who else will. Who pays the bill for API testing? Yes! It costs big money. Go back and read Too Slick's post - he didn't pull those numbers out of his a-z-z - these were done by SWRI. I highly doubt that renowned lab pulled the number out of their a-z-z. And of course there is the BITOG test.

http://www.ppcouncil.org/apimarks.htm

http://api-ep.api.org/filelibrary/API_MotorOilGuide_2004.pdf

http://www.swri.edu/

http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/sequence_3f.aspx

Stingray427 - Amsoil ships UPS from regional/local warehouses. How fast? A couple days.

Yes:

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/svg.aspx?zo=515729

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/atf.aspx?zo=515729

Synthetic Comparisons

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