Syntec and sludge?

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TheFuror

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Okay, I know that Syntec is Group III and not real synthetic oil.

However, I am curious what the common wisdom/experience is on sludge issues with Syntec, especially the latest GF-4.

Gratzi

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Bob W.
 
There are no sludge issues with Syntec that I am aware of. Extending the drain interval beyond it's capability could be a problem. Calling an oil synthetic doesn't mean you can run Syntec to the 15K that Mobil 1 claims or 30+K that Amsoil claims.

Syntec is very good at reasonable drain intervals. I've had no issues with it.
 
quote:
Originally posted by haley10:
There are no sludge issues with Syntec that I am aware of. Extending the drain interval beyond it's capability could be a problem. Calling an oil synthetic doesn't mean you can run Syntec to the 15K that Mobil 1 claims or 30+K that Amsoil claims.

Syntec is very good at reasonable drain intervals. I've had no issues with it.
Click to expand...
Thanx, I appreciate the info.

My mainstay (Kendall GT-1) is apparently no longer GM 4718 rated now that it has gone to the GF-4 specs, so I am in the process of re-thinking the whole deal.

cheers.gif


Bob W.
 
I'm confused about 'the oil sludge problem'. The first and immediate blame is the oil. As discussed on another thread, a neighbor had a Dodge Durango with the 4.7 V8 and oil changes every 3k and sometimes 2k miles with a good oil, Castrol GTX 5w-30, and a good filter, Mopar or AC Delco, no additives or flushing. He had a 60k miles failure, lost oil pressure and engine suddenly stopped. The engine was loaded with sludge and the oil pump failed. I know he did the oil changes, I taught him how and took his used oil. I also bought his oil and filters from one of my suppliers. You just can't blame the oil or filter in this case, both good products. If you are changing oil, using an API cert oil and good filter and have sludge, look somewhere else. Or you have to say the modern engine is only good for 60k miles. The same oil/filter/oci goes hundreds of thousands of miles in other engies. So I think the problem should be caused 'engine sludge'.
 
From my own observation of real world sludge issues (with others cars...as I have never had the issue)....one buddy of mine was religous in changing his dino oil every 3000 miles.....had sludge out the ying yang at about 25K on a new Toyota...he was just heartbroken.....when we talked he went on and on about following the recommended OCI...only used approved oils and viscosity etc. etc. As we talked I finally asked if it had been using oil...he couldn't answer AS HE HAD NOT BEEN EVEN CHECKING HIS OIL.....he never checked his oil in between 3K OCI's.....duh!!!
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Thing had been running low on oil all this time we found out later......low oil/higher engine temps/oxidation=sludge......
 
From what I've heard about "Sludge Engines" is that the engine/heads are poorly designed in that the engine oil temperature in certain places is too high. The oil gets "cooked" and turns to sludge.
The Dodge 4.7L is infamous for this, and now certain Toyota's too.
I wouldn't think of using dino oil in one of these motors. Real synthetic is a must!
worshippy.gif
 
The issue isn't really about (non GC)Castrol Syntec causing sludge. It's a fine oil by any standards. It just doesn't have the ability to keep an engine spotless like a real synthetic oil. Especially when you're dealing with extended drains.
 
The issue isn't really about (non GC)Castrol Syntec causing sludge. It's a fine oil by any standards. It just doesn't have the ability to keep an engine spotless like a real synthetic oil. Especially when you're dealing with extended drains.
================================================

So Kernel Potter has proof that Mobil-1 base oil with no cleaning additives shines engines better than Castrol base synthetic without any additives??
 
quote:
Originally posted by prebis:
Syntec seems to have done a good job keeping this Audi V6 CLEAN.
Audi using 5W-50 Syntec at 100K, with 10K OCI's.
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I agree, it looks really good. Plus, I like the fact that you had low consumption using it.

I like the Kendall GT-1 I have been using, and it appears that the new GF-4 will be GM 4718 rated soon. It's just a pain having to drive an hour to get it, so I am considering using something more-off-the-shelf, as it were.

cheers.gif


Bob W.
 
quote:
Originally posted by ilikeguns:
From what I've heard about "Sludge Engines" is that the engine/heads are poorly designed in that the engine oil temperature in certain places is too high. The oil gets "cooked" and turns to sludge.
The Dodge 4.7L is infamous for this, and now certain Toyota's too.
I wouldn't think of using dino oil in one of these motors. Real synthetic is a must!
worshippy.gif

Click to expand...
This is the first time I have heard about the 4.7L being a sludge maker. I know the Chrysler 2.7L V6 but the 4.7L.... I highly doubt it. I know Grand Cherokee owners with the 4.7L that have well over 150K miles with little oil burning and no sludge problems.
 
Well I am on my second Durango. The 1st one was a 2000 with the 4.7 and my new 2003 also has it. I have had NO sludge issues and neither has anyone else I know of. See Durangoclub.com. I think that these sludge issues in this engine are more than likely user caused. I got 130,000 trouble free miles out of my last engine and this one is on the same road with 40,000 miles turned this weekend.
 
quote:
Originally posted by thunderchild:
...I have had NO sludge issues and neither has anyone else I know of.....I think that these sludge issues in this engine are more than likely user caused....
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I agree, & let's not forget, engine manufacturers DO make a defective engine or two every now & then. It's possible to have 1000 engines to come off an assembly line with 998 of them having no problems at all & 2 out of 1000 having a defect which makes them "sludge monsters".

For the last 13 years, I have worked as a mechanical designer for a major automotive component supplier & I've seen these types of things happen.

[ April 02, 2005, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: wavinwayne ]
 
the durango sludge case is an example where everyone should do a UOA for their engine to detect sludge. There's not any kind of guarantee that if someone has a good UOA in an engine that you have that you will have the same results with the same oil. I've seen many comments about this.
 
FWIW,

Just did oil change on a Corvette with 10k on oil.Running 5-50 Syntec and Bosch filter.

Oil looked okay(somewhat dirty).After draining the filter,I looked inside and saw about
1/2 inch of sludge stuck to the bottom of filter!!
shocked.gif

Just a personal observation and not a knock against Syntec,but I won't use this oil in any extended drain cycles or treat it as I would M1 and try to push it to its limits again.
nono.gif


The oil seemed to be holding up just as well as M1 but the filter sludge issue was enough to scare me !!!
gr_eek2.gif


I've never seen that kind of sludge in any of my filters before and all vehicles are subjected to 10k minumum OCI's.

What I have left I will use up, but it will be treated as a decent dino oil.

Regards and just a personal experience/opinion,

slee
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quote:
The SAE 5w-50 syntec product contains a fair # of PAO basestock....
TS
Click to expand...
Wow... I've never heard this before. Please give more info about the content of Syntec 5w-50! I used it in my Passat for 70,000 miles, with changes at 5,000 miles, and still got sludge.
 
Yuk,
I'm not an expert like most on here.

What I understand,when an oil is thickened,the manufacturer uses polymers(plasticyser's:sp?)to thicken the oil to the the desired viscosity.

Too many Visc. improvers will tend to turn to sludge if not kept at bay by the base oil and additives.
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That is my uneducated understanding of what may have happened to me.
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I'm sure many people would have a better explanation of what I experienced.

When going from 5w to 50,that is a large spread as far as Visc. is concerned.I'm assuming that the additives and base oil weren't up to the task
of keeping the VI improvers at a manageable level;Thus sludge was able to form.
dunno.gif


Like I stated in my earlier post,I am not trying to flame any product or endorse another.(I was really hot on Castrol until this)

I just want to find the best and use it without worry!!!
cheers.gif


In all fairness to Castrol,I went with them when I had a extended drain problem with the old Mobil 1 formulation.( prior to recent formulations, it didn't seem to hold up as well as previous M1 did)

I hope others will pipe in with input as I am curious as to whether I am anywhere near the truth as to what may have happened to me.

Thanks and regards,
slee
 
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